Do single socket windlasses exist?

[magpie patrick]

On one level I know the answer: yes they do. But does anyone sell them?

Nearly all my windlasses have two sockets, in a line. The larger square socket at the end and the slightly smaller tapered socket in from that. The smaller socket is the standard size but almost everyone I see used the larger one until advised otherwise.  This increases the risk of the windlass slipping, and causes wear on the paddle spindle. 

A few enquiries over the years suggest that people use the larger one for a number of reasons: logic tells them the "usual" size will be at the end and the other one is non standard, they want the greatest leverage so use the end one. They haven't noticed the sockets are different, the bigger one will fit the smaller one might not: I could go on.

I don't suppose anyone makes a windlass with the holes the other way round, but does anyone make a single socket? I could hide the other windlasses until they were needed...

Oh, and I saw one with four sockets in a line yesterday. What are the other two for? 

 

[Rob-M]

I've not managed to find a modern single headed windlass. Rose Narrowboats posted recently saying they may start making them.

[mango]

45 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Oh, and I saw one with four sockets in a line yesterday. What are the other two for? 

The distant ones provide a little more leverage and the nearer ones allow the windlass to be used when the spindle is near the balance beam or to allow easy paddles to be opened more quickly.

[Mac of Cygnet]

You'll get lent/sold a single socket windlass if you go onto the Wey, but I suppose that's a special case.

[1st ade]

59 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

On one level I know the answer: yes they do. But does anyone sell them?

Take a standard windlass - ten minutes with an angle grinder?

[magpie patrick]

13 minutes ago, mango said:

The distant ones provide a little more leverage and the nearer ones allow the windlass to be used when the spindle is near the balance beam or to allow easy paddles to be opened more quickly.

Ok: not four different socket sizes rhen

I've got one like that but two of the sockets are half way up the handle: short throw and long throw in one windlass 

[MtB]

 

 

Although the tapered eye fits most lock gear, it certainly does not fit all. There have been occasions where I have HAD to use the larger, parallel eye as the tapered one simply would not go onto the spindle.

There is at least one lock here on the K&A where the gate paddles used to be insanely stiff to work and CRT's response has been to add reduction gearboxs to raise the number of turns to about 100 to raise the paddle. Cadley Lock, I think. These gearboxes have a parallel square shaft of weird size. Too large to accept the taper eye IIRC and a very baggy fit for the larger parallel eye.

Further, when I moored at Calcutt ISTR the spindles on the three locks there being parallel and only the larger eye would fit. Same I think applies with all that type of gear, including Hatton.

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[Captain Pegg]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Although the tapered eye fits most lock gear, it certainly does not fit all. There have been occasions where I have HAD to use the larger, parallel eye as the tapered one simply would not go onto the spindle.

There is at least one lock here on the K&A where the gate paddles used to be insanely stiff to work and CRT's response has been to add reduction gearboxs to raise the number of turns to about 100 to raise the paddle. Cadley Lock, I think. These gearboxes have a parallel square shaft of weird size. Too large to accept the taper eye IIRC and a very baggy fit for the larger parallel eye.

Further, when I moored at Calcutt ISTR the spindles on the three locks there being parallel and only the larger eye would fit. Same I think applies with all that type of gear, including Hatton.

 

Yes. I believe the widened GU locks between Napton and Birmingham are what the larger square eyes are for. Hateful locks; should be restored to their true state IMHO.

JP

[rusty69]

Ive probably misunderstood what your after, how about  these 

 

 

http://www.canalshoponline.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d33_01.html

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Most of the barrel shaped hydraulic winders have spindles that only take the large opening. Used a lot on paddles, manual swing and lift bridges. Common on the Huddersfield Narrow for example.

Jen

Edited June 4, 2017 by Jen-in-Wellies

[magpie patrick]

5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Yes. I believe the widened GU locks between Napton and Birmingham are what the larger square eyes are for. Hateful locks; should be restored to their true state IMHO.

JP

Indeed, that's why we now have two sized

Mike the Boilerman: the K&A used to have an intermediate size, 1 & 1/8th I think. I have a large single socket windlass this size.

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Ive probably misunderstood what your after, how about  these 

 

 

http://www.canalshoponline.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d33_01.html

Ooo that's clever! That would work well 

[Captain Pegg]

 

10 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Most of the barrel shaped hydraulic winders have spindles that only take the large opening. Used a lot on paddles, manual swing and lift bridges. Common on the Huddersfield Narrow for example.

Jen

They are geared not hydraulic on the widened GU locks.

JP

Edited June 4, 2017 by Captain Pegg

[MtB]

On 04/06/2017 at 10:31, Captain Pegg said:

They are geared not hydraulic on the widened GU locks.

JP

They are geared no hydraulic on the widened GU locks.

JP

 

Correct. There have been a number of threads on here about the Ham Baker paddle gear on the GU. Here's one for example:

http://canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/48561-hatton-paddles/

 

[magpie patrick]

11 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Most of the barrel shaped hydraulic winders have spindles that only take the large opening. Used a lot on paddles, manual swing and lift bridges. Common on the Huddersfield Narrow for example.

Jen

 

4 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

They are geared not hydraulic on the widened GU locks.

JP

The big square spindles on hydraulic paddles is the same size as the spindles on the geared Ham and Baker paddles. Apparently a taper on thr hydraulic gear leads to the windlass slipping, whilst on the much older Ham and Baker paddle the spindle is integral and not easy to replace 

[MtB]

The only hydraulic paddle gear I can think of is here on the K&A, and its completely different in appearance.

[magpie patrick]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The only hydraulic paddle gear I can think of is here on the K&A, and its completely different in appearance.

Indeed, except for the little square bit you put the windlass on 

[Captain Pegg]

5 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 

The big square spindles on hydraulic paddles is the same size as the spindles on the geared Ham and Baker paddles. Apparently a taper on thr hydraulic gear leads to the windlass slipping, whilst on the much older Ham and Baker paddle the spindle is integral and not easy to replace 

Come to think of it the hydraulic lifting bridges on the Stratford use the larger eye. The last few hydraulic paddles on narrow locks that I know of - Tardebigge no. 57 and Lapworth no. 14 or 15?? - use the standard narrow lock spindles if I remember correctly.

JP

[MtB]

On 04/06/2017 at 10:48, Captain Pegg said:

Come to think of it the hydraulic lifting bridges on the Stratford use the larger eye. The last few hydraulic paddles on narrow locks that I know of - Tardebigge no. 57 and Lapworth no. 14 or 15?? - use the standard narrow lock spindles if I remember correctly.

JP

 

Yes an all the silly chains that 'hold' swing bridges closed here on the K&A also use the bigger square on the windlass to unscrew the bolt on the end.

So it is beginning to look as though both holes on the standard twin hole windlass are essential!!

[magpie patrick]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes an all the silly chains that 'hold' swing bridges closed here on the K&A also use the bigger square on the windlass to unscrew the bolt on the end.

So it is beginning to look as though both holes on the standard twin hole windlass are essential!!

They are, but not so essential they need to be on the same windlass! Most structures need one or the other not both. 

[Detling]

 

2 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

They are, but not so essential they need to be on the same windlass! Most structures need one or the other not both. 

Yes, but you will always get off with the wrong one.

[Canal Cuttings]

Quote

Hateful locks; should be restored to their true state IMHO

That's interesting.  Which features make them so hateful, and what is their "true state"?  Back to the original single width, or less radical than that?

[MtB]

On 04/06/2017 at 11:11, magpie patrick said:

They are, but not so essential they need to be on the same windlass! Most structures need one or the other not both. 

 

Agreed. But this means one either needs to carry two single eye windlasses to every gear one encounters to eliminate the risk of guessing/remebering wrong, or one twin-eye windlass. 

I know which I'd prefer to do. 

My favourite type of windlass is those old fabricated steel ones, with the eyes side-by-side on the end. This means the same leverage is available on each so no temptation to use the wrong eye. They should be brought back IMO.

[X Alan W]

No idea about present day but some years back the obtaining of a length of cord & a strong  magnet + a 1/2 hour or so, better chance if the lock has gate paddles, fishing ;used more often than not to produce a windlass or 2 catch. The best I ever did was bottom 4 locks on the Wheelock flight produced 9 windlasses Mind that was some 6 months after they had taken away the locK keeper /lengths man In Joe's day you wouldn't find any thing a magnet would stick to or a keb could fish out

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Ive probably misunderstood what your after, how about  these 

 

 

http://www.canalshoponline.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d33_01.html

Canalshop has closed down since the proprietor was sent away. 

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Canalshop has closed down since the proprietor was sent away. 

Oooops