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How I killed my batteries


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My sealed liesure  batteries  have lost most of their capacity after 4 years, with evidence of  electrolyte leakage. 

In normal use , ie cruise for 5 -7 hrs then use power overnight, the max voltage they get is about 14.5V, which shouldn't  do any harm.

But we sometimes do day trips from the home mooring starting with the batteries fully charged from the solar panel and don't  bother to start the fridge or put any other loads on the system. If we do that then the voltage goes up to 14.78V which the batteries  don't  like long term.

It seems that running the alternator with no load gives excess voltage despite the Adverc controller.

So in future we will start the fridge before we go to load the system.

I just thought I'd  mention  this in case anyone does what we do and are cooming their batteries .

 

Top Cat

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I think four years is about the norm for leisure batteries if I am honest. Lots on here have said the same, I bought full tractions because I wanted them to have a long life and the price difference is so little its not worth buying leisure batteries

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On 03/06/2017 at 22:45, Top cat said:

My sealed liesure  batteries  have lost most of their capacity after 4 years, with evidence of  electrolyte leakage. 

In normal use , ie cruise for 5 -7 hrs then use power overnight, the max voltage they get is about 14.5V, which shouldn't  do any harm.

But we sometimes do day trips from the home mooring starting with the batteries fully charged from the solar panel and don't  bother to start the fridge or put any other loads on the system. If we do that then the voltage goes up to 14.78V which the batteries  don't  like long term.

It seems that running the alternator with no load gives excess voltage despite the Adverc controller.

So in future we will start the fridge before we go to load the system.

I just thought I'd  mention  this in case anyone does what we do and are cooming their batteries .

 

Top Cat

 

I agree with Peter. Four years is actually rather better than most people get out of cheapo leisures. 

Your usage pattern appears to have actually been rather good for them!

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On 04/06/2017 at 10:05, Richard10002 said:

4 years would be a dream for me :(

im wondering what gave the impression that the batteries didn't like 14.78V?

The OP says:

"If we do that then the voltage goes up to 14.78V which the batteries  don't  like long term."

This is sort of correct, as to batteries need to drop back to float voltage when fully charged. I think he may have interpreted this as 14.8v being too high for any amount of time. Clearly not the case.

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11 hours ago, Top cat said:

My sealed liesure  batteries  have lost most of their capacity after 4 years, with evidence of  electrolyte leakage. 

In normal use , ie cruise for 5 -7 hrs then use power overnight, the max voltage they get is about 14.5V, which shouldn't  do any harm.

But we sometimes do day trips from the home mooring starting with the batteries fully charged from the solar panel and don't  bother to start the fridge or put any other loads on the system. If we do that then the voltage goes up to 14.78V which the batteries  don't  like long term.

It seems that running the alternator with no load gives excess voltage despite the Adverc controller.

So in future we will start the fridge before we go to load the system.

I just thought I'd  mention  this in case anyone does what we do and are cooming their batteries .

 

Top Cat

Four years.......awesome....what make are they?

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On 04/06/2017 at 10:23, Top cat said:

I can see that they have all leaked electrolyte,  which I interpret  as an indication that they have been taken to too high a voltage.

 

T C

 

Hello TC! 

Where did you get that idea from? I'd say batteries usually only leak from physical damage. Or possibly from excessive sulphation which paradoxically is caused by inadequate charging.

I've heard that heavily sulphated batteries bulge at the ends, but I've never seen it myself. 

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My batteries see 15.2v from the solar (just as it shuts down), the batteries (3 x exide 115Ah) are showing no signs of distress after 2 years of this treatment.

From tests I have done my alternator drops out at 14.2v and anything above that is supplied from the solar panel only.

As a test on my last trip we did 48 hours of no charging to see what condition the batteries were in (solar disconnected and no engine running)
if anything the loads were a little higher than normal as we had friends over and the sound system got a workout (100 - 130w extra load for around 6 hours), everything else was as normal, fridge lights pumps etc.

after the 48 hours the batteries were down to 12.9v on load (13.1v off load)

with everything reconnected the batteries were fully charged (15.2v dropping back to ~14v with zero current from alternator or solar) after around 6 hours of cruising in the sun.

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The Adverc increases the voltage, when required, by supplying extra current to the rotor, it can do nothing to reduce the voltage, so if the internal regulator is too high then the Adverc is not to blame.  

..............Dave

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Umm.. I thought I picked up the idea of max voltage from someone  on here. I have asked the suplier ( Multicell) what the max voltage should be but they haven't  given me a straight answer.

There's  nothing special about these batteries, they did about 350 cycles  so  only  about a year for a liveaboard.  I wouldn't  recommend  or un recommend them , I put the relatively  long life down to being a bit obsessive about charging. The previous set of mismatched sealed and open batteries lasted us 5 years plus what ever time the previous owner had them. 

From reading various  comments it seems like my theory is incorrect,  I may need to re evaluate my ideas on the care and feeding of the next lot of batteries.

I'm  considering adjusting the Adverc to give them a slightly  higher charge voltage, the spec says 14.2 -14.6V for normal absorption  and 14.6-14.9V for fast charge absorption.  Float 13.8V

T C

 

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50 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Hello TC! 

Where did you get that idea from? I'd say batteries usually only leak from physical damage. Or possibly from excessive sulphation which paradoxically is caused by inadequate charging.

I've heard that heavily sulphated batteries bulge at the ends, but I've never seen it myself. 

The OP says they are sealed. This means they are sealed and will have a pressure relief valve to prevent explosion in case of overcharging or internal short circuit.

They will be either recombination cells, where the hydrogen and oxygen evolved during charging is recombined to form electrolyte, with no liquid electrolyte being present or gel type, or possibly wet cells with a larger than normal reservoir of electrolyte.

With any of the above if the cell is overcharged,  the vent valve lifts and some electrolyte is lost.

Cells that bulge at the ends typically have internal short circuits, usually caused by active material lost from the plates building up on the bottom of the case until it reaches a level high enough to short the plates.

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Just now, Jess-- said:

My batteries see 15.2v from the solar (just as it shuts down), the batteries (3 x exide 115Ah) are showing no signs of distress after 2 years of this treatment.

From tests I have done my alternator drops out at 14.2v and anything above that is supplied from the solar panel only.

As a test on my last trip we did 48 hours of no charging to see what condition the batteries were in (solar disconnected and no engine running)
if anything the loads were a little higher than normal as we had friends over and the sound system got a workout (100 - 130w extra load for around 6 hours), everything else was as normal, fridge lights pumps etc.

after the 48 hours the batteries were down to 12.9v on load (13.1v off load)

with everything reconnected the batteries were fully charged (15.2v dropping back to ~14v with zero current from alternator or solar) after around 6 hours of cruising in the sun.

12.9 v after 48 hours?

Ian.

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There is no evidence of bulging.

From one comment it sounds like fiddling with the Adverc won't  achieve  anything and it the internal regulator in the alternator thats giving the higher voltage. Did I interpret that correctly? 

I've considered my batteries to be charged when the current at 14.4V drops to 1% of the original  capacity at C/20.  But if we are doing a long day we go beyond that down to in some cases 0.1%. Once we stop cruising then the solar takes over, sometimes it won't  cut in till the batteries drop below about 13.4 then it maintains  them at 13.8 while it can.

Recently  the oldbatteries have been going straight to 14.4V on starting the engine, the current varies according to discharge. This makes me wonder about the remaining electrolyte  levels

 

T C

Edited by Top cat
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34 minutes ago, ianali said:

12.9 v after 48 hours?

Ian.

12.9 at the batteries just before I flipped the isolator off and went shopping, 13.1 when I came back an hour later just before switching the isolator on again, readings taken with an AVO Digital meter (calibrated 2 months before)

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1 minute ago, Jess-- said:

12.9 at the batteries just before I flipped the isolator off and went shopping, 13.1 when I came back an hour later just before switching the isolator on again, readings taken with an AVO Digital meter (calibrated 2 months before)

Fully charged then even after 48 hours of use without any recharging?

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My last set did 2 years.... 6 months effective times twice. What killed them was some kind soul turning off the solar system whilst we were away in Oz for 8 months. The little green posts say they are fine... They charge to full in 4 hours and die to 10 volts in 6. Sulphatated to max.. Changed for the cheapest today which say.  Max 100 cycles to 50%... Honesty rather than claiming 400 cycles Ie at something like 5%.

new ones still charging 6 hours later ...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok so at last my batteries are failing. I am confined to the boat at present and live off grid so am using more leccy than normal and during the night my fridge was clicking on and off and a quick look showed batteries hitting below 11 volts so hey ho I ordered precisely the same again. They have lasted me 125 weeks precisely of great full time liveaboard service for the princely sum off exactly £2.38 per week. Sealed so never needed to look at the things until someone changes em for me tommorow. Thats a hell of a lot  of cycling for cheap zero maintainance lifestyle :D. So to sum up Mr Trojan and his pals have more chance of seeing snow on the sun than being fitted in my boat. I am not knocking what others do just giving  some first hand long term liveaboard experience re batteries that woks FOR ME.

  • Greenie 1
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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Ok so at last my batteries are failing. I am confined to the boat at present and live off grid so am using more leccy than normal and during the night my fridge was clicking on and off and a quick look showed batteries hitting below 11 volts so hey ho I ordered precisely the same again. They have lasted me 125 weeks precisely of great full time liveaboard service for the princely sum off exactly £2.38 per week. Sealed so never needed to look at the things until someone changes em for me tommorow. Thats a hell of a lot  of cycling for cheap zero maintainance lifestyle :D. So to sum up Mr Trojan and his pals have more chance of seeing snow on the sun than being fitted in my boat. I am not knocking what others do just giving  some first hand long term liveaboard experience re batteries that woks FOR ME.

Dont forget to take the scrap value off that £2.38 it will probably be equal to a couple of months use.

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Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Dont forget to take the scrap value off that £2.38 it will probably be equal to a couple of months use.

As a Yorkshireman I am not that tight even. I never weigh them in I simply leave em at whatever yard I am at for them to weigh in.

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3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

As a Yorkshireman I am not that tight even. I never weigh them in I simply leave em at whatever yard I am at for them to weigh in.

Sling them on my boat when i pass in a couple of weeks, ill weight them in with mine this autumn!

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Just now, Dave Payne said:

Sling them on my boat when i pass in a couple of weeks, ill weight them in with mine this autumn!

They will be long gone. I gave away 6 that each weighed 54 kilos when I changed them on my widebeam just a few years ago. Lifes too short to mess about humping old batteries about. Never have and never will. Nearly as daft as polishing a boat :o

  • Greenie 1
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6 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Ok so at last my batteries are failing. I am confined to the boat at present and live off grid so am using more leccy than normal and during the night my fridge was clicking on and off and a quick look showed batteries hitting below 11 volts so hey ho I ordered precisely the same again. They have lasted me 125 weeks precisely of great full time liveaboard service for the princely sum off exactly £2.38 per week. Sealed so never needed to look at the things until someone changes em for me tommorow. Thats a hell of a lot  of cycling for cheap zero maintainance lifestyle :D. So to sum up Mr Trojan and his pals have more chance of seeing snow on the sun than being fitted in my boat. I am not knocking what others do just giving  some first hand long term liveaboard experience re batteries that woks FOR ME.

How about AGMs? They cost a little more but far less than when I last pondered over this about 7 years ago; typically around £1/Ah at the lower end of the market. Their claimed DoD (up to 80%) and faster charging rates up to a certain level seem to make them an obvious choice where cost is an issue.

I'm living in my campervan whilst I work on the boat and I fitted AGMs as a trial before the big spend on the boat batteries. I also have no time for constantly monitoring batteries but force myself to get the multimeter out every now and then in the middle of the night to check how the fridge being turned up (or down... never quite sure which is correct) is affecting them. So far all indications are that they are doing very well. Not even comparable to the previous cheap batteries.

I don't have the skills, nor any desire to acquire them, to measure the depth of discharge but if the claims of 80% being safe are true, the battery bank has effectively been increased by over 50%.

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