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Claiming the towpath


larryjc

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12 minutes ago, Muddy Ditch Rich said:

If you actually knew what they were you would have cited them. 

As mrsmelly asked do you have a problem with all authority or is it just CRT?

I am sure you would be much more comfortable with that damned great chip off your shoulder.

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Just now, Muddy Ditch Rich said:

You don't know either then.

When and where did I suggest I did?   If we are playing tit for tat you don't seem to know yourself.

However do you have a problem with all authority or is it just CRT?

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8 hours ago, Muddy Ditch Rich said:

If you actually knew what they were you would have cited them. 

 

Oh I know what they are, I am suggesting that if you were familiar with them you would not have posted unsubtantiated speculation.

Edited by David Schweizer
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i moored on these moorings with the yellow signage at middlewich last year with 3 working boat without a problem, one of the guys said it used to be used by the hire company but didnt know if it still was. to be fair its always got boats on it and i was just lucky to get on the end.

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14 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

If it is on the tow path side then it cannot be private.

That is broadly correct, although one would need to check individual relevant Acts for each section of canal to determine the status of any particular length.

 Insofar as the original status of all canals was a public right of navigation, it would not matter whether [as was the case sometimes] even the canal bed and/or towpath itself was outside the canal company ownership – the ownership was subject to the public right. The Lord of the Manor of Rickmansworth for example, owned the canal bed and towpath of the Grand Union where it ran through his property – but he went to prison for defying a Court injunction that prevented him from obstructing the public use of and passage through his property.

 The terms of the enabling Acts impose a duty to provide use of the towing paths [and even canal company offside facilities] to all, and they most certainly would not be able to sell off or lease control of any part of the essential 'track' to others [though BW/CaRT do, as has been pointed out].

 It is always the oddball bits that one is not aware of though, that can trip you up with all this legislation. For example, there is no right for pleasure boats to use the towpath along the Grand Junction Canal between Brentford and Braunston; in fact there has been a statutory ban on pleasure boat use for over 2 centuries, unless, again, some intervening unknown Act has overturned that.

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As far as i am aware it is part of the area leased to Andersen Boats. Certainly when the historic boats moor in that area for the FAB Festival it's always been at the permission of Andersen boats i think.

On the hire fleet turn around days it is full of boats with people coming and going. I've occasionally seen boats moored there and i don't think Anderson are going to come running down the towpath telling you to clear off, they seem a fairly relaxed and friendly bunch. That said, if you were moored there on turn around day they may come and ask you to move.

It's certainly not an unusual situation. Middlewich Narrowboats have rights to the towpath in their pound, as do Midway Boats at Barbridge, Anglo Welsh at Bunbury, etc...

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17 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

 

For those that have resorted to making personal attacks on Muddy Ditch Rich because they can not cite the relevant legislation that allows C&RT to prohibit mooring, here is a clue -

British Waterways Act 1995 - Prohibition or control of mooring


 

This clause says that if they put up an official sign, it must be obeyed. It doesn't go into whether and/or under what circumstances they are empowered to put up such a sign. Equating to the roads, it is the same as saying one must obey speed limit signs. However there is a whole other tranche of legislation and rules regarding what speed limit signs an authority may erect on a public road, where, and under what circumstances.

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15 minutes ago, junior said:

It's certainly not an unusual situation. Middlewich Narrowboats have rights to the towpath in their pound, as do Midway Boats at Barbridge, Anglo Welsh at Bunbury, etc...

 

Union Canal Carriers at Braunston........ Etc., etc.

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55 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

This clause says that if they put up an official sign, it must be obeyed. It doesn't go into whether and/or under what circumstances they are empowered to put up such a sign. Equating to the roads, it is the same as saying one must obey speed limit signs. However there is a whole other tranche of legislation and rules regarding what speed limit signs an authority may erect on a public road, where, and under what circumstances.

Hook, line and sinker ...

As Nigel suggested, I was being 'clever'. The link is to part of the private Bill that eventually became the British Waterways 1995 Act. However, the clause allowing BW to 'prohibit or control mooring' never became law because BW were unable to convince a parliamentary select committee that is was needed (they already had powers to deal with obstruction).

Perhaps they should have explained to Parliament that they were charging individuals and businesses for exclusive mooring on parts of the towpath and needed to prohibit such use to others ...

Edited by Allan(nb Albert)
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13 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

 

For those that have resorted to making personal attacks on Muddy Ditch Rich because they can not cite the relevant legislation that allows C&RT to prohibit mooring, here is a clue -

British Waterways Act 1995 - Prohibition or control of mooring


Rotter.

you must be using CaRTs 'make it up as you go law generator'

Edited by Muddy Ditch Rich
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On 30/05/2017 at 19:35, David Schweizer said:

Yes they can, and it is legal/ With a few exceptions, the towpath is not a legal right of way, and the public (including boat owners) only have  permitted access, and C&RT can permit or refuse access to whoever they choose, without any redress or explanation.  There are numerous examples all over the system where stretches of the towpath are leased to commercial operators, usually hire boat companies, and whist the public are usually still permitted to walk on the towpath, mooring can be restricted to the commercial operator and their clients.

There's a very similar situation at Fradley Junction. Lots of 'towpath' disappears into a private road, up to Shadehouse lock. Moorings are £5.00 a night on the towpath anywhere near the Swan, and it isn't a Swan problem, it's leased to the geezer who owns the nearby caravan park I believe. it has been £5.00 a night there for as long as I can remember..

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9 hours ago, Oldbugger said:

There's a very similar situation at Fradley Junction. Lots of 'towpath' disappears into a private road, up to Shadehouse lock. Moorings are £5.00 a night on the towpath anywhere near the Swan, and it isn't a Swan problem, it's leased to the geezer who owns the nearby caravan park I believe. it has been £5.00 a night there for as long as I can remember..

Certainly wasn't  £5 per night in the 90's. When Swan Line (or was it Club Line, I forget) had their hire base at Fradley I overnighted there once and was politely asked to vacate my mooring by 09:00 as it was a turnaround day and the hire fleet were due in from 09:30.

 

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