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POLL: Guest Advertisements


RichM

What do you think about Canal World displaying non-intrusive advertisements to guest users?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think about Canal World displaying non-intrusive advertisements to guest users?

    • I think it's a good idea
      33
    • I don't think it's a good idea
      16
    • Abstain
      6


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Evening all,

We would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on how Canal World funds itself. As such, I'm running a poll to gather thoughts on what members think about the possibility of Canal World displaying non-intrusive ads to those who are not members aka 'guests' only. Please kindly vote in the poll and/or provide constructive feedback in this topic.

We will take all views into account before displaying any advertisements to our guest users. To clarify, there are no plans to display advertisements to registered members. 

Canal World is mostly funded by members who kindly donate to us. This helps pay towards the running costs but does not currently fund the costs associated with developing or promoting the site. This is something we need to do so that we can continue to grow our community. However, we also have a slight financial shortfall in that our costs have increased somewhat in the last year and our operating costs are currently more than the total amount of donations we receive on a monthly basis.

We have made several required improvements to the site and also the infrastructure which powers it and we look to make continual improvements, most of which are based on the feedback we receive from our members.

Recent/upcoming improvements:

- Much faster server to help ensure the site performs well and also reliably
- New theme in response to v4.1 update feedback carried out in February
- Improvements to the support area so that we can efficiently respond to user enquirers 
- Up-coming new chat functionality to replace the previous discontinued chat functionality

Cheers

RichM

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36 minutes ago, Meanderingviking said:

Just for clarification, is it essential to raise revenue from advertising and if so what sort of advertising would it be?

We have no immediate financial concerns but we do have a funding shortfall that we need to address in some form or another. We have improved the donation system including the front-end page that members see when they donate (more on this here) and while we may occasionally look to encourage members to donate, we don't want to be pushy in doing so. - All members contribute/contributed in some form or another by submitting content and by engaging with each other. 

While we welcome guests to the site I think it's perhaps fair to say that they do not contribute to the site in the same way that our members do and as such it seems appropriate to display relevant non-intrusive adverts to them. They would always have the option of registering/becoming a member whereby they would not see the ads. This is something we would make awareness of in such a way that increases new member registrations. But of course, I am still interested to know what our members think about it.

The ads would be small banner ads/boxes and possibly text links. We would only look to display relevant ads. Again, at no point would they be visible to members.

Cheers

RichM

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1 minute ago, RichM said:

We have no immediate financial concerns but we do have a shortfall that we need to address in some form or another. We have improved the donation system including the front-end page that members see when they donate and while we may occasionally look to encourage members to donate, we don't want to be pushy in doing so. - All members contribute/contributed in some form or another by submitting content and engaging with each other. 

While we welcome guests to the site I think it's perhaps fair to say that they do not contribute to the site in the same way that our members do and as such it seemed appropriate to display relevant non-intrusive adverts to them. They would always have the option of registering/becoming a member whereby they would not see the ads. This is something we would make awareness of in such a way that increases new member registrations. But of course, I am still interested to know what our members think about it.

Cheers

RichM

Thanks :D

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I voted before I read the reasons for the poll and then realised I wanted to change my vote. Couldn't see how so voted again. My votes will have cancelled one another out :-)  I suppose if I voted again, the net result will be as I wanted !

haggis

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I do not wish to support "promoting the site". I would like to be reassured that the new enthusiastic technical side are not getting carried away! But that is just me. And the poll should be anonymous.

Edited by system 4-50
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44 minutes ago, RLWP said:

I don't want to participate in a public poll. Can you redo this so how people vote is hidden please?

Richard

Thanks for your feedback. Results should be hidden now.

21 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I do not wish to support "promoting the site". I would like to be reassured that the new enthusiastic technical side are not getting carried away! But that is just me. And the poll should be anonymous.

As with any online forum community, some members will naturally drift away over time for various reasons (e.g. after selling their boat etc etc) and as such it's important to attract and encourage new members to join. We don't have any problems in this regard at the moment but it is something we continually keep an eye on. 

While I may be relatively new to the staff team here (nearly a year now) I have been involved in the operation of large discussion forum communities for nearly 15 years. 

RichM

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I fail to see any value in any concerted effort to attract new members.

CWDF is well established and hardly hard to find by anyone interested enough to type 'canal forum' into a search engine.

Given it's longevity, ubiquity and the finite number of bods interested enough in its core subject to join, let alone post, membership should be expected to be growing very slowly if at all.

It is a unsurpassed waterways/canal repository of knowledge and for those content to dip in and out and use it as such invaluable.

Depending on its mood of I would think it entirely possible to find the answer to 90% of any given canal based question simply by using the search facility.

It is also for good or bad a 'known quantity' and one that 'frightens' noobs who mostly use fb groups.

I would guess that there are exponentially more guest 'hits' than there are members who post even occasionally and can see no reasonable objection, the meaning of 'non-intrusive advertising' notwithstanding to object, providing it helps fund the status quo for members.

It is a big step to take though, one that once taken is pretty much irreversible both financially and philosophically.

 

I've been here as a member off and on for a decade, longer as a lurker, long enough to have developed a totally irrational, fond attachment to it.

Although it has and occasionally still does drive me up the wall and make me slightly sad with its slightly prim and proper outlook, it has also made me howl with laughter and taught me a bit about boats but quite a lot about boaters.

By all means take an income from guests using the resource but its a slippery ethical slope from 'covering a shortfall' to 'maximising income'.

Membership wont rise significantly in my view and any sort of rebrand is doomed to fail.

 

 

  • Greenie 1
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Need more information.

Can you clarify what exactly you mean by "non intrusive adverts?" Like, are they banners between posts? Rotating headers? I assume no fecking pop-ups, which is the antonym of non-intrusive...

How many ads would each guest see per click?

Are they likely to be gifs, vid clips, other shiet that can significantly slow down mobile or dongle connections and cost data?

 

Do you intend to use a service to find and place ads and pay out revenue to you? If so, which service, what type of ads, how will you regain any autonomy over the type of things they place?

Or do you intend to shill ad space to canal-related businesses?

Like, You need to provide more detailed information to have a hope of getting informed replies/votes. This isn't parliament, you know.

 

  • Greenie 1
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Another forum i heavily used for some time had ads, banners at the top and bottom of the page, they were only ads related to the theme of the forum, nobody had a problem and most people used to use the ads to buy stuff as they used to contain % off related products.

 

I say go for it, if the forum needs funding then Dan has the right to put ads up.

Bigger problems in the world than getting bothered about a couple of banners.

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Another on-line forum which I visit regularly does display adverts, and I must say that I don't really notice them. What I do notice Is that the forum in question takes much longer to load than this one does, so one has to wait a while before viewing its various sections. Whether this slowness is caused by the presence of adverts I don't know - perhaps it's just that their rude mechanicals are not as efficient or high-tech as those on here.

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1 hour ago, Dave Payne said:

 

Bigger problems in the world than getting bothered about a couple of banners.

You have hit the nail squarely on the head. Life is way too short to worry about trivia such as this, you only have to read the Manchester thread to put your life into persepctive. Its an interenet forum its total trivia and if the owner wants to do something whatever that may be then he can do it. If you are a person lucky enough to let this be significant enough to effect your life then other forums are available.

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1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

Whilst I'm not opposed to the idea I'm surprised anyone bothers with online adverts as so many people run ad blockers now.

You would be surprised!

I help to run a Genealogy site that uses banner advertising, and on a site with around 3 million searches a month we bring in a revenue of £8,000 a month from banner adverts.

 

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If it is needed for the forum to survive and it is just for guests, why not?  Any that don't like it can just join up or turn on adblocker.  I would also look into why this shortfall has come about in the first place.  Figure out what has driven away your donators.

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1 minute ago, lulu fish said:

If it is needed for the forum to survive and it is just for guests, why not?  Any that don't like it can just join up or turn on adblocker.  I would also look into why this shortfall has come about in the first place.  Figure out what has driven away your donators.

Modgate!

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22 hours ago, tomsk said:

 

I fail to see any value in any concerted effort to attract new members.

CWDF is well established and hardly hard to find by anyone interested enough to type 'canal forum' into a search engine.

Given it's longevity, ubiquity and the finite number of bods interested enough in its core subject to join, let alone post, membership should be expected to be growing very slowly if at all.

It is a unsurpassed waterways/canal repository of knowledge and for those content to dip in and out and use it as such invaluable.

Depending on its mood of I would think it entirely possible to find the answer to 90% of any given canal based question simply by using the search facility.

It is also for good or bad a 'known quantity' and one that 'frightens' noobs who mostly use fb groups.

I would guess that there are exponentially more guest 'hits' than there are members who post even occasionally and can see no reasonable objection, the meaning of 'non-intrusive advertising' notwithstanding to object, providing it helps fund the status quo for members.

It is a big step to take though, one that once taken is pretty much irreversible both financially and philosophically.

 

I've been here as a member off and on for a decade, longer as a lurker, long enough to have developed a totally irrational, fond attachment to it.

Although it has and occasionally still does drive me up the wall and make me slightly sad with its slightly prim and proper outlook, it has also made me howl with laughter and taught me a bit about boats but quite a lot about boaters.

By all means take an income from guests using the resource but its a slippery ethical slope from 'covering a shortfall' to 'maximising income'.

Membership wont rise significantly in my view and any sort of rebrand is doomed to fail.

 

 

We are indeed well established and that is largely thanks to you, our members. People come and go but it makes sense to do what we can to keep people coming. The likes of Google make the job a lot easier but it's still not quite like auto pilot.

I'm not aware of any plans to re-brand the site, I'm sure Daniel would have mentioned it if there were. :) If we do display ads to guest users and if it doesn't work out for any reason, we can review the situation again.

I'm sorry if it comes across as being "prim & proper" to use your words. Canal World is one of the most active UK Canal & Boating forums in the world. We do what we do with the intent to help keep it that way.
 

21 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Firstly on the funding thing, the site was well funded for quite a while until it became megalomanically run for the benefit of a few, in a confrontational, aggressive and control-freaky way that alienated a lot of folk who, me included, then cancelled their regular donations. In other words, actions have consequences and that is the main reason why the site currently has a shortfall. We are where we are, true, but also there is a need to learn from history!

As to advertising for guests, if there is an intent to gain members this seems counterproductive as they may be put off by advertising. I am no expert but I believe you create a link to an advertising supplier and don't actually have much control over each advert? This leads to malware adverts getting through and it can be a struggle to keep on top of it, and or potential members find the site inoperable from time to time as a result of redirects to scam app purchases etc.

I also see it as the thin end of the wedge and when you say "no plans for adverts for members" you should add "at this time" because that is all you know.

If the "site owner" (not, of course, the "site creator") ate a bit of hindsight humble pie for allowing a war zone to develop, in which he was a combatant, as opposed to continuing to be in denial and attempting to change history, some of those who terminated their regular donations in protest might reconsider, and that would fix the funding issue.

 

21 hours ago, Starcoaster said:

Need more information.

Can you clarify what exactly you mean by "non intrusive adverts?" Like, are they banners between posts? Rotating headers? I assume no fecking pop-ups, which is the antonym of non-intrusive...

How many ads would each guest see per click?

Are they likely to be gifs, vid clips, other shiet that can significantly slow down mobile or dongle connections and cost data?

 

Do you intend to use a service to find and place ads and pay out revenue to you? If so, which service, what type of ads, how will you regain any autonomy over the type of things they place?

Or do you intend to shill ad space to canal-related businesses?

Like, You need to provide more detailed information to have a hope of getting informed replies/votes. This isn't parliament, you know.

 

Without meaning to digress and bearing in mind I don't oversee the whole operation of the site; I appreciate the waters may get rough from time to time but we do what we do with the best of intentions and much of what we do is up for discussion with a view that we can continually make improvements based on the views expressed. This topic being an example.

If and when we do display adverts to guest users, we will look to embed them in such a way that does not intrude or degrade the appearance or performance of the site in any way of significance. They would likely be in the form of small images or text links, no popups.  If we do go-ahead with it, we would welcome feedback.

Potentially we would use Google Adsense to provide relevant ads and it's true that we would not have complete control of the adverts displayed. However, we can choose ad pools based on categories, e.g. "DIY", "boating", "outdoors", lifestyle and for arguments sake, opt-out of "fashion", "music" or anything otherwise irrelevant to Canal World. IIRC, we would also have the ability to block any ads we feel are not appropriate should the need arise.

12 hours ago, lulu fish said:

If it is needed for the forum to survive and it is just for guests, why not?  Any that don't like it can just join up or turn on adblocker.  I would also look into why this shortfall has come about in the first place.  Figure out what has driven away your donators.

We have a number of donators, many of whom have donated again since we improved the donation system but there is a slight shortfall largely due to the increase in operating costs. We look to continually maintain and develop Canal World for the benefit of the site and its members.  Canal World needs to be maintained, just like our boats. :)

Cheers

RichM

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On 25/05/2017 at 01:36, nicknorman said:

Firstly on the funding thing, the site was well funded for quite a while until it became megalomanically run for the benefit of a few, in a confrontational, aggressive and control-freaky way that alienated a lot of folk who, me included, then cancelled their regular donations. In other words, actions have consequences and that is the main reason why the site currently has a shortfall. We are where we are, true, but also there is a need to learn from history!

As to advertising for guests, if there is an intent to gain members this seems counterproductive as they may be put off by advertising. I am no expert but I believe you create a link to an advertising supplier and don't actually have much control over each advert? This leads to malware adverts getting through and it can be a struggle to keep on top of it, and or potential members find the site inoperable from time to time as a result of redirects to scam app purchases etc.

I also see it as the thin end of the wedge and when you say "no plans for adverts for members" you should add "at this time" because that is all you know.

If the "site owner" (not, of course, the "site creator") ate a bit of hindsight humble pie for allowing a war zone to develop, in which he was a combatant, as opposed to continuing to be in denial and attempting to change history, some of those who terminated their regular donations in protest might reconsider, and that would fix the funding issue.

 

Greenie.

I too cancelled my regular monthly contribution when I got a Warning (for posting a witticism) from one of the megalomaniac mods you mention.

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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12 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Greenie.

I too cancelled my regular monthly contribution when I got a Warning (for posting a witticism) from one of the megalomaniac mods you mention.

 

I'm sorry to hear that Mike. If you wish to provide feedback in relation to the matter or in regards to how the site is run, I recommend raising it via our support section and it will be reviewed by Daniel. I've been on the team nearly a year and from what I have seen in that relatively short time is that Canal World is very much a community driven & focused community in the way in which it operates. Sure, by human nature we won't always get it right no matter how much we try.

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