Out of fuel (duh!)

[Johny London]

I'm afraid I have stupidly run out of diesel while running the engine. Of course it shuddered to a halt after running a little hesitantly for a while, and the dip test confirms the merest hint of diesel. Annoyingly, tomorrow I was going to fit the new fuel filters.

Bearing all that in mind I wonder what procedure I now ought to follow - ie while the system presumably has air in it, could that be the best or worst time to do the fuel filters? It's a canaline 42.

I'm off for a jerry can of diesel anyway

Edited May 21, 2017 by Johny London

[Chewbacka]

As you will need to purge the air from the system to get the engine running again, and as changing the filter will let air in the fuel system it seems a good time to change the filter and then you only need to purge the air once.  If you have a beta engine it does have a hand pump on top of the filter housing which makes bleeding the air out very easy.

[Alan de Enfield]

Unless you are sure that your fuel tank is clean, when you have poured in (and stirred up the crap) allow the tank to stand for a couple of hours before changing filters and trying to start the engine.

It would be pointless to put on the new filters and then clog them up with all the crap from the bottom of the tank.

(That's why the pick-up pipe is generally a couple of inches above the bottom of the tank).

[Tony Brooks]

34 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

As you will need to purge the air from the system to get the engine running again, and as changing the filter will let air in the fuel system it seems a good time to change the filter and then you only need to purge the air once.  If you have a beta engine it does have a hand pump on top of the filter housing which makes bleeding the air out very easy.

He says Canalline 42. I thought Beta called their canal engines "Green line". Is the OP's not an Isuzu? If so it MIGHT have an electric lift pump (I know some do). I which case the priming will be accomplished by turning the ignition on and having a cup of tea. If the engine battery is serviceably it should then self bleed the high pressure side and start. If not I would then loosen the injector unions and crank the engine to see if I had diesel there. If not something is blocked or its a mechanical lift pump that requires the system bleeding.

[Johny London]

Thank you. Happy to report that the engine started again without too much bother, after putting a few litres of diesel in. I thought that at least that way, when I close the fuel shut off lines to do the filters, I know I have diesel up to that point anyway - plus I did consider the muck from the bottom of the tank so thought the old filters might as well take it. It's a new (well one year old now!) tank so I suppose I'd be likely to have gunk from the manufacturing process ie flux and bits of weld rather than rust and sludge?

I will tackle the filters tomorrow - which is a task that has been worrying me - but the engine seemed quite happy to bounce back into life so I will keep fingers crossed for a similar outcome tomorrow and of course report back - as there doesn't seem to be too great a wealth of knowledge around about these "new" canaline engines.

I didn't hear the tick tick tick of an electric pump/purge valve whatever I was told by a guy at the boat yard just now so I'll assume it's manual not electric, and I will check for the presence of a hand primer thing when I do the filters.

Happy days for now anyway

[Tony Brooks]

I think Isuzu electric pumps are very quiet. If you locate the engine fuel filter and follow the pipes. One will go to the injector pumps while the other comes from the lift pump. There may be a priming lever on the lift pump if its mechanical but you really nee someone who has worked on lots of Canallline engines to give you chapter and verse.

[zenataomm]

There you are, there was no reason at all for you to have been afraid was there?

[Machpoint005]

I have the same moment of anxiety every time I change the fuel filter on my Beta 43. Last time (having hand-pumped, or rather finger-pumped, as directed by the manual) it took all of 3 seconds of starter motor cranking to re-start the engine. There is a certain frisson of satisfaction... 

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

it took all of 3 seconds of starter motor cranking to re-start the engine. There is a certain frisson of satisfaction... 

It's ALIIIIVE!

[Machpoint005]

49 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It's ALIIIIVE!

[Johny London]

Could someone tell me where the little o ring fits? I'm talking about the external filter here, thanks

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Could someone tell me where the little o ring fits? I'm talking about the external filter here, thanks

If its a CAV one then it goes around the centre bolt under the head PROVIDING the filter head as a small taper at the top of the bolt hole. If its a right angle shoulder then it needs a soft washer. Beware some of the small O rings seem to be too small and cause problems. There is a slightly larger one that fits around the "nose" under the filter head that the element pushes up ontpo

[Johny London]

thanks tony, i found it with the aide of a mirror.

my next question is: how does one fill the filter with fuel? I thought before putting it back on but as its in two parts until the bolt through the top goes in, im not sure i can do it without making a right mess!

[bizzard]

2 hours ago, Johny London said:

thanks tony, i found it with the aide of a mirror.

my next question is: how does one fill the filter with fuel? I thought before putting it back on but as its in two parts until the bolt through the top goes in, im not sure i can do it without making a right mess!

You do it quickly, although you're bound to spill a drop. Have everything at the ready. Sealing 0 ring of about 3/4'' on the tube in the top casting, sealing ring in the base, sealing ring in the top casting, stick the new top one in with grease if it keeps falling out. Have the bolt with is wee O ring on it at hand. Grasp the filter by its cast base, fill with fuel, whack it up hard onto the top casting, hold it there very firmly whilst popping the bolt in. Screw it down as far as it will go by hand, nipping up slightly with the spanner, whilst turning the filter a little this way and that to make sure its seated on the sealing rings and not caught up on the side of the ring groove. Finally tight the bolt, just so.  Incidentally, there's usually a small fuel filter in both mechanical and electric lift pumps which need cleaning too.

Edited May 22, 2017 by bizzard

[Bazza954]

Is there not a little bolt head next to the one you undo to remove the filter ? this is normally an air release, once back together, turn on diesel undo bolt release air.

 

bazza

[Flyboy]

On 21/05/2017 at 12:30, Tony Brooks said:

He says Canalline 42. I thought Beta called their canal engines "Green line". Is the OP's not an Isuzu? If so it MIGHT have an electric lift pump (I know some do). I which case the priming will be accomplished by turning the ignition on and having a cup of tea. If the engine battery is serviceably it should then self bleed the high pressure side and start. If not I would then loosen the injector unions and crank the engine to see if I had diesel there. If not something is blocked or its a mechanical lift pump that requires the system bleeding.

The later Canalline 42  engines use a Korean sourced Kioti core, which has an electric lift pump. I don't think Canaline have used Isuzu engines for over 5 years as the Isuzu core engine was no longer available.

[Johny London]

I managed to hold the fuel filter together while filling it, and got it back on ok with no drama. I then ran the engine just to see - and it was fine though I don't know how long it would take for any air to come through.

Next I tackled the engine fuel filter. It was difficult to remove, but I did so without damaging it too much - just in case. The next problem was it had a metal plug under it that needed a larger hex key than I had. I managed to borrow something off a helpful boater nearby - a t55 head which fitted well, so swapped that plug onto the new filter, filled it with fuel and put it on. I undid the little bleed nut and squished the thingy on the top of the filter housing which produced a healthy squirt of diesel after a couple of goes, put the nut back on. I fired the engine again - no problems evident but again we'll see if any air works its way through on a longer run period . Needles to say I remembered to turn off/on the fuel valve at the appropriate junctures.

Nearly finished the rest of the service now - just popped in for a quick snack to fuel me onto the finish!

Yes mine is a Kioti, but I didn't hear any electric pump lifting going on.

Thanks for the help!

[Neil Smith]

I have a barrus shire that has a little electric priming pump but you cant hear that ticking either.

Neil

[Johny London]

Well, mine has that manual press down diaphragm thing on top of the engine fuel filter, along with the bleed nut. I can't see anything with wires in the vicinity.

Anyway, I pressed on with the service - all done now including the impossible to see gear box dipstick. I wiped all the oily bits nice and dry. Tomorrow I can check for leaks then clean and put away the tools.

[blackrose]

Since the fuel take off from the tanks of most newish boats is above the bottom of the tank (specifically to prevent crap at the bottom of the tank getting into the fuel lines), personally I wouldn't have even bothered to change the filters.

Edited May 22, 2017 by blackrose

[Johny London]

What.... ever?

[cuthound]

13 hours ago, blackrose said:

Since the fuel take off from the tanks of most newish boats is above the bottom of the tank (specifically to prevent crap at the bottom of the tank getting into the fuel lines), personally I wouldn't have even bothered to change the filters.

But changing fuel filters is an opportunity to see if you have the early stages of a diesel bug infection.

It is much easier to deal with in the early stages.

Edited May 23, 2017 by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect.

[mross]

I don't change my filters because I think they are blocked, I change them so I know they are clean!  Also, it's good to know they are fitted correctly with no missing springs or seals.

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, mross said:

I don't change my filters because I think they are blocked, I change them so I know they are clean!

[BruceinSanity]

I have had the paper element in a fuel filter collapse as a result of putting off changing it – this was the second filter, the fine one on the engine. I've now got a FuelGuard instead of the CAV, so have a clear bowl to see the fuel condition without taking the filter off. The FG also has a drain tap on the base rather than a plug.