speedwheel advice please

[jactomtroub]

My new (to me) boat has speedwheel controls. Well speelwheel for revs and a push pull rod for gears. What do I need to be mindful of when using them to avoid damage to gearbox and the engine or anything else for that matter! !

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Wind back on the speedwheel to slow the engine before changing gear. You have to do manually what a morso lever does automatically, passing from forward through neutral to reverse and back with the engine idling. I find them slower to use than a morso lever, so you have to plan a little further ahead when maneuvering.

Jen

[zenataomm]

Morso make stoves not throttle/gear change equipment.

Morse Controls need the same careful direction change as any controls.  There's nothing to stop you going from full ahead to full astern in one swell foop!

Not advisable with any set up.  The larger your flywheel the longer it will take to slow down to tick over, the only recommended speed for changing direction. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Yep morse, not morso. An attack of brain fade there. I have both on my boat and am always trying to make the engine and go faster by stoking more coal in to the Morso Squirrel.

Jen

[jactomtroub]

Thank you thats pretty much what I thought. I just need more practice as at the moment I need three hands!!

[Peter X]

Whatever the controls, when you need to get into reverse, first reduce your speed, then go into neutral for a moment, then reverse, then increase the speed. This way is much kinder to your boat. With a morse control this just requires you not to move it back too fast, but with your controls the sequence is wheel, lever, wheel. After a while you get used to it, then one day you find yourself steering another boat on which the wheel goes in the opposite direction and you just have to remember which boat you're on.

Ideally you anticipate possible trouble ahead and slow down before reaching the point where a quick switch of direction is required, but sometimes on the canals trouble happens suddenly. Still, two hands should be enough.

[jactomtroub]

Thank you! 

[zenataomm]

1 hour ago, jactomtroub said:

Thank you thats pretty much what I thought. I just need more practice as at the moment I need three hands!!

I disagree, it's a one hand job.

One hand to throttle back engine, you should never change gear until it's slowed right down, as everybody keeps saying

One hand to manoeuvre gear change, by the time it's all clunked into place you can use the same hand to ......

Wind her on again.

If you're using more than one hand you're rushing it and not being kind to the mechanically bits.

 

 

[furnessvale]

13 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

I disagree, it's a one hand job.

One hand to throttle back engine, you should never change gear until it's slowed right down, as everybody keeps saying

One hand to manoeuvre gear change, by the time it's all clunked into place you can use the same hand to ......

Wind her on again.

If you're using more than one hand you're rushing it and not being kind to the mechanically bits.

 

 

Correct.  The other hand is on the tiller, unless you want it flying over onto hard lock as full astern takes hold.

George ex nb Alton retired

[Peter X]

And having gone into reverse, if you happen to be towing a butty on a line, you either have to get back into forwards pretty soon (e.g. if chucking back to clear the prop), or deal with the consequences. This means finding a hand from somewhere, probably re-allocating the one that was doing the controls, to pull in the towing line before it wraps around the prop, then being ready for the impact when the butty catches up.

[David Mack]

On 5/20/2017 at 20:30, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Wind back on the speedwheel to slow the engine before changing gear. You have to do manually what a morso lever does automatically, passing from forward through neutral to reverse and back with the engine idling. I find them slower to use than a morso lever, so you have to plan a little further ahead when maneuvering.

Jen

Its only the same as you do in the car (but without needing to bother with the clutch). Foot off the accelerator to let the engine slow. Then use the gear lever to select reverse then put the speed on with the accelerator.

[Iain_S]

Not forgetting that the car has to be stopped BEFORE selection of reverse gear

[MtB]

On 20/05/2017 at 20:08, jactomtroub said:

My new (to me) boat has speedwheel controls. Well speelwheel for revs and a push pull rod for gears. What do I need to be mindful of when using them to avoid damage to gearbox and the engine or anything else for that matter! !

 

I think the previous advice that you should never engage astern before allowing the engine to slow to tickover is precipitous at best given we have no idea what engine and gearbox you have.

If you have, say, a PRM260 gearbox then PRM told me this is good practice but in an emergency slamming it from full ahead into full astern is unlikely to have any adverse effect unless I do it regularly. Similarly with my Kelvin. It will tolerate it even though not good to do it routinely.

What engine/gearbox combination is in your boat?

 

 

[X Alan W]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I think the previous advice that you should never engage astern before allowing the engine to slow to tickover is precipitous at best given we have no idea what engine and gearbox you have.

If you have, say, a PRM260 gearbox then PRM told me this is good practice but in an emergency slamming it from full ahead into full astern is unlikely to have any adverse effect unless I do it regularly. Similarly with my Kelvin. It will tolerate it even though not good to do it routinely.

What engine/gearbox combination is in your boat?

 

 

As said depends on the Gearbox the old mechanical gearboxes hung on the back of equally old engines require at all times to let the engine revs drop to tick over before selecting reverse. Oil operated GB's, PRM etc. are less likely to give problems if on the limited occasions reverse is engaged with revs still on. But in all cases/occasions it's better to engage reverse at tick over.

[jactomtroub]

It is a Ruston Hornsby 2yd. 1958. With a PRM150. I do treat it gentle and slow when changing gear. But confess I still get in a muddle at times when faced with an on coming boat in a blind bridge hole!

Edited May 31, 2017 by jactomtroub

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, jactomtroub said:

It is a Ruston Hornsby 2yd. 1958. With a PRM150. I do treat it gentle and slow when changing gear. But confess I still get in a muddle at times when faced with an on coming boat in a blind bridge hole!

 

 

Ahh terrible engine*. I'll do you a favour and take it off yer hands for fifty quid.

Then you can get yourself a proper engine, like a Beta or something...

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* Just kidding. I'd LURVE to have a 2YD!!

Terrible gearbox choice though. I'd call PRM for advice on it's ability to withstand gear reversal at speed, if I were you. 

[ditchcrawler]

43 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Ahh terrible engine*. I'll do you a favour and take it off yer hands for fifty quid.

Then you can get yourself a proper engine, like a Beta or something...

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* Just kidding. I'd LURVE to have a 2YD!!

Terrible gearbox choice though. I'd call PRM for advice on it's ability to withstand gear reversal at speed, if I were you. 

Better than that, I could do a swap

 

[jactomtroub]

Gearbox is 160.sorry  It was discussed with PRM and they recommended it to the engineer that marinised the Ruston. Sorry lads but no swaps it's a grand engine.

[bargemast]

1 hour ago, jactomtroub said:

Gearbox is 160.sorry  It was discussed with PRM and they recommended it to the engineer that marinised the Ruston. Sorry lads but no swaps it's a grand engine.

That is a very good decision, I would have said exactly the same.

 

Peter.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, jactomtroub said:

Gearbox is 160.sorry  It was discussed with PRM and they recommended it to the engineer that marinised the Ruston. Sorry lads but no swaps it's a grand engine.

 

|In that case it should be fine. I had a 160 on my last engine and called PRM with this exact question. They said it is not good practice but the box is very robust and off the record they would be amazed if it suffered any damage from the occasional full power reversal.

[mross]

In emergency it's OK to go from full ahead to full astern, but to get the best life from the gearbox, change direction at minimum or near-minimum revs.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, mross said:

In emergency it's OK to go from full ahead to full astern, but to get the best life from the gearbox, change direction at minimum or near-minimum revs.

 

That doesn't apply to mechanical gearboxes in my personal experience, which is why we were getting to the bottom of exactly which box is fitted to this lovely Ruston.

On my two mechanical gearboxes astern simply will not engage until the engine has settled down to tickover. It's pointless trying. I dunno if this is normal behaviour for mechanical boxes. 

(And the 160 by the way, is the predecessor to the PRM260 and physically identical in terms of compatibility.)

Edited June 1, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[mross]

The 160 is a hydraulic gearbox................... Direction change is by clutches.

[MtB]

Just now, mross said:

The 160 is a hydraulic gearbox................... Direction change is by clutches.

 

Yes we know that, but we didn't know it was a 160 until quite late in the thread!

[mross]

OP.  See workshop manual here http://www.prm-newage.com/media/File/101 & 160 man.pdf

Section 6.2 is relevant.