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roland elsdon

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We run a 70 amp alternator  lucas clone with 2 domestic and one start battery through and adverc regulator. These days the adverc is less important as standard regulators appear to have higher voltage cutoff. Our only high current demand is a 12 v water heater that needs 24 amps for an hour or so. We never run this while the adverc is cycling.

in the last 5 years we have killed 2 lucas clone alternators and the third now has the glow of death.. Charging starting at higher Rpms and  light glowing dully all the time, it's still outputting at up to 35 amps but Historically this precedes  a total fail. I think this is the diode pack.

my question is do I simply get over it an accept that $65 alternators are designed to run for the warranty plus a day and built down to a price in Poland China Romania or India, or do I splash out $$$$ on an adverc one or a genuine lucas in the hope of getting longer life. 

We use the boat 4 months of the year continuously then go home to work. Hence the $$$ rather than pounds sorry.

our last boat had same set up but a 100 amp alternator and 6 batteries never changed the alternator after the initial instal but I span it much faster it had a washing machine too.

 

 

Sorry 127 clone alternator

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5 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

We run a 70 amp alternator  lucas clone with 2 domestic and one start battery through and adverc regulator. These days the adverc is less important as standard regulators appear to have higher voltage cutoff. Our only high current demand is a 12 v water heater that needs 24 amps for an hour or so. We never run this while the adverc is cycling.

in the last 5 years we have killed 2 lucas clone alternators and the third now has the glow of death.. Charging starting at higher Rpms and  light glowing dully all the time, it's still outputting at up to 35 amps but Historically this precedes  a total fail. I think this is the diode pack.

my question is do I simply get over it an accept that $65 alternators are designed to run for the warranty plus a day and built down to a price in Poland China Romania or India, or do I splash out $$$$ on an adverc one or a genuine lucas in the hope of getting longer life. 

We use the boat 4 months of the year continuously then go home to work. Hence the $$$ rather than pounds sorry.

our last boat had same set up but a 100 amp alternator and 6 batteries never changed the alternator after the initial instal but I span it much faster it had a washing machine too.

 

 

Sorry 127 clone alternator

Have 3 Lucas 75 amp clones,one on the DC generator delivering full output as it charge 6 batteries

The original ALT. melted the internal Solder Joints after being shut down whilst on full chat

ALT number two is Temperature limited with a Cheap and cheerful Willhi Digital 12 volt Heater\Fridge  controller

The Yellow wire between the Alt. Regulator and Field Windings is switched out when the Stator reaches 75 Degrees C,once the Stator Temp. reduces the Field circuit is allowed to Generate Amps again

A Probe is attached to the outside of the Alt. with a Large Hose Clip,the Willhi Controller can be set into a panel so that the displayed Temp can be

seen/adjusted,it is a simple Modification

CT

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Quote

 

Car alternators are not designed for continuous operation - though your duty doesn't sound as particularly onerous.

However for boat operation my not-so-humble-opinion is that you'd be better off  using a bus or truck type alternator with proper cooling and designed for a higher duty.

Nothing wrong with than Adverc - per se - but they are intended to be used with higher  duty kit. Silk pursers and sow's ears...

Occasionally you can find good kit on ebay - but it'll cost a bit more....

Just had a look on fleabay - but they're all at silly prices. You need Leece-Neville kit.

 

Now folks will come back and tell me I'm talking rubbish.....

 

 

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5 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

The Yellow wire between the Alt. Regulator and Field Windings is switched out when the Stator reaches 75 Degrees C,once the Stator Temp. reduces the Field circuit is allowed to Generate Amps again

A Probe is attached to the outside of the Alt. with a Large Hose Clip,the Willhi Controller can be set into a panel so that the displayed Temp can be

Your a genius sir! 

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1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Your a genius sir! 

Incorrect,I am a retired Genius...

Did the same Mod, on the 2 Engine Alts,works well,if the washing machine is heating Water or the Microwave is on the Alts.work at full output but the Temp. controller will allow them to cool when necessary.

CT

Edited by cereal tiller
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I can't comment on the techy side of this but tell you my experience. We 'chewed' through a couple of standard vetus fit alternators with the Adverc system fitted. Last replacement was a Prestolite , which touch wood has performed well, I think it is rated at 95 amps but not 100% sure.

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2 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

We run a 70 amp alternator  lucas clone with 2 domestic and one start battery through and adverc regulator. These days the adverc is less important as standard regulators appear to have higher voltage cutoff. Our only high current demand is a 12 v water heater that needs 24 amps for an hour or so. We never run this while the adverc is cycling.

in the last 5 years we have killed 2 lucas clone alternators and the third now has the glow of death.. Charging starting at higher Rpms and  light glowing dully all the time, it's still outputting at up to 35 amps but Historically this precedes  a total fail. I think this is the diode pack.

my question is do I simply get over it an accept that $65 alternators are designed to run for the warranty plus a day and built down to a price in Poland China Romania or India, or do I splash out $$$$ on an adverc one or a genuine lucas in the hope of getting longer life. 

We use the boat 4 months of the year continuously then go home to work. Hence the $$$ rather than pounds sorry.

our last boat had same set up but a 100 amp alternator and 6 batteries never changed the alternator after the initial instal but I span it much faster it had a washing machine too.

 

 

Sorry 127 clone alternator

Roland, five gets you ten the alternator has the wrong handed fan on it

David

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On 18 May 2017 at 19:46, OldGoat said:

Car alternators are not designed for continuous operation - though your duty doesn't sound as particularly onerous.

However for boat operation my not-so-humble-opinion is that you'd be better off  using a bus or truck type alternator with proper cooling and designed for a higher duty.

Nothing wrong with than Adverc - per se - but they are intended to be used with higher  duty kit. Silk pursers and sow's ears...

Occasionally you can find good kit on ebay - but it'll cost a bit more....

Just had a look on fleabay - but they're all at silly prices. You need Leece-Neville kit.

 

Now folks will come back and tell me I'm talking rubbish.....

 

 

Not only that but they are likely to be in a warmer environment without a cooling airflow.  

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Batterys are OK even coming of mains with Good bats glow has started. With them flat it's the same. Glow is not dependant on load or voltage and is constant independant of adverc  (diode pack?) it only started this time 2 days ago. 

Have changed regulator( no change) changed to non modified regulator no change, disconnected adverc no change. Hence its the alternator at fault. Alternator is 2 years old. 

The decision is $60 to $ 70 for a clone or 175 ish for a lucas haven't got adverc price yet, but they do a 70 amp Lucas replacement.

it doesn't spin that fast it's an hb lister and it isn't geared up. Nor does it get very hot

good point re fan but it's rh mounting on r side. 

Last one failed when engine had been on for  5 mins and was on initial charge. Batteries had come off mains charge 15 mins before.

suspect it's just cheap. Will try a prestolite I think

 

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If you liveaboard off grid then alternators are consumables, two to four years is about what I get, the harder they work the sooner they die.

The Adverc is great but does make the alternators work even harder so this does not help with a long life. If you have space then its worth keeping a spare. It is possible to rebuild most alternators but unless you have suitable tools and skills, or have access to one of the few companies who can do this sort of thing, then its easier to get a new one.

People like Sir Nibble are an endangered species these days.

...........Dasve

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32 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Batterys are OK even coming of mains with Good bats glow has started. With them flat it's the same. Glow is not dependant on load or voltage and is constant independant of adverc  (diode pack?) it only started this time 2 days ago. 

Have changed regulator( no change) changed to non modified regulator no change, disconnected adverc no change. Hence its the alternator at fault. Alternator is 2 years old. 

The decision is $60 to $ 70 for a clone or 175 ish for a lucas haven't got adverc price yet, but they do a 70 amp Lucas replacement.

it doesn't spin that fast it's an hb lister and it isn't geared up. Nor does it get very hot

good point re fan but it's rh mounting on r side. 

Last one failed when engine had been on for  5 mins and was on initial charge. Batteries had come off mains charge 15 mins before.

suspect it's just cheap. Will try a prestolite I think

 

looking at the alternator pulley face on, does it rotate clockwise or anticlockwise ?

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6 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

People like Sir Nibble are an endangered species these days.

 

This is especially true with 24v alternators. 

I simply could not find a company willing/able to even test my 24v Leece Neville alternator. I bought a new one in the end to rule out a failing alternator.

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

This is especially true with 24v alternators. 

I simply could not find a company willing/able to even test my 24v Leece Neville alternator. I bought a new one in the end to rule out a failing alternator.

I can give you a phone number next time we meet. Trouble is the bloke is about 70 and trying really hard to retire but has so many people requesting work that he just can't escape. He has a lovely alternator test machine that also looks to be about 70 years old. He recently pressed new bearings into one of my alternators and cleaned up the slip rings for £10 which is probably why he has too much work.

You could take it to a garage and ask them to test it but they look at you sort of funny :D

.............Dave

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3 hours ago, mango said:

Not only that but they are likely to be in a warmer environment without a cooling airflow.  

Excess Temperature is,IMHO the  most frequent cause of failure in Alternators,about which I posted an inexpensive method of Temp. control.

Have tried to wreck a 127 type by overloading and restricting airflow,the Temp control prevents destruction.should improve machine and belt life

Time will tell

CT

Edited by cereal tiller
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1 minute ago, cereal tiller said:

Excess Temperature is,IMHO the  most frequent cause of failure in Alternators,which I posted an inexpensive method of Temp. control.

Have tried to wreck a 127 type by overloading and restricting airflow,the Temp control prevents destruction.should improve machine and belt life

Time will tell

CT

Has anyone mentioned. You sir, are a genius (retired)! 

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Ok. That is the usual way that the majority of alternators are driven, and most alternators come with a fan for that direction of rotation or a bi-directional fan. So yours is almost certainly the correct one. You can check it by holding a smoking  joss stick at the back of the alternator. The smoke should be drawn through it to emerge from around the fan pulley. Some alternators have an interior fan, my Hitachi one does.

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47 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

This is especially true with 24v alternators. 

I simply could not find a company willing/able to even test my 24v Leece Neville alternator. I bought a new one in the end to rule out a failing alternator.

Come to sunny Lowestoft

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15 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Ok. That is the usual way that the majority of alternators are driven, and most alternators come with a fan for that direction of rotation or a bi-directional fan. So yours is almost certainly the correct one. You can check it by holding a smoking  joss stick at the back of the alternator. The smoke should be drawn through it to emerge from around the fan pulley. Some alternators have an interior fan, my Hitachi one does.

I am so excited, Mr Bizzard has slipped up on a technical matter and so I can correct him, and this is a very rare thing indeed.

Alternator fans are centrifugal so all suck from the centre through the alternator and blow outwards, the blades are slightly shaped to optimise air flow but a fan running backwards will still suck in the same direction, but not quite as well.

However I might just have fallen into some kind of humorous trap relating to joss sticks???

.............Dave

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1 hour ago, cereal tiller said:

Excess Temperature is,IMHO the  most frequent cause of failure in Alternators,which I posted an inexpensive method of Temp. control.

Have tried to wreck a 127 type by overloading and restricting airflow,the Temp control prevents destruction.should improve machine and belt life

Time will tell

CT

That makes sense.  Please can we have a link.

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36 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Ok. That is the usual way that the majority of alternators are driven, and most alternators come with a fan for that direction of rotation or a bi-directional fan. So yours is almost certainly the correct one. You can check it by holding a smoking  joss stick at the back of the alternator. The smoke should be drawn through it to emerge from around the fan pulley. Some alternators have an interior fan, my Hitachi one does.

You could start an alternator fan club.  

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1 hour ago, mango said:

That makes sense.  Please can we have a link.

No link needed,the Temperature controllers are  easily available from sources such as ebay,just ask for 12 volt digital panel mounted Temperature Controller,will come complete  with probe on a1 Meter cable,if you go ahead with the modification feel free to P.M me for installation details,the mod to the Alternator Field wire is simple and Quick,no dismantling required.

CT

Edited by cereal tiller
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