roland elsdon Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 We run a 70 amp alternator lucas clone with 2 domestic and one start battery through and adverc regulator. These days the adverc is less important as standard regulators appear to have higher voltage cutoff. Our only high current demand is a 12 v water heater that needs 24 amps for an hour or so. We never run this while the adverc is cycling. in the last 5 years we have killed 2 lucas clone alternators and the third now has the glow of death.. Charging starting at higher Rpms and light glowing dully all the time, it's still outputting at up to 35 amps but Historically this precedes a total fail. I think this is the diode pack. my question is do I simply get over it an accept that $65 alternators are designed to run for the warranty plus a day and built down to a price in Poland China Romania or India, or do I splash out $$$$ on an adverc one or a genuine lucas in the hope of getting longer life. We use the boat 4 months of the year continuously then go home to work. Hence the $$$ rather than pounds sorry. our last boat had same set up but a 100 amp alternator and 6 batteries never changed the alternator after the initial instal but I span it much faster it had a washing machine too. Sorry 127 clone alternator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Are your batteries in good condition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, roland elsdon said: We run a 70 amp alternator lucas clone with 2 domestic and one start battery through and adverc regulator. These days the adverc is less important as standard regulators appear to have higher voltage cutoff. Our only high current demand is a 12 v water heater that needs 24 amps for an hour or so. We never run this while the adverc is cycling. in the last 5 years we have killed 2 lucas clone alternators and the third now has the glow of death.. Charging starting at higher Rpms and light glowing dully all the time, it's still outputting at up to 35 amps but Historically this precedes a total fail. I think this is the diode pack. my question is do I simply get over it an accept that $65 alternators are designed to run for the warranty plus a day and built down to a price in Poland China Romania or India, or do I splash out $$$$ on an adverc one or a genuine lucas in the hope of getting longer life. We use the boat 4 months of the year continuously then go home to work. Hence the $$$ rather than pounds sorry. our last boat had same set up but a 100 amp alternator and 6 batteries never changed the alternator after the initial instal but I span it much faster it had a washing machine too. Sorry 127 clone alternator Have 3 Lucas 75 amp clones,one on the DC generator delivering full output as it charge 6 batteries The original ALT. melted the internal Solder Joints after being shut down whilst on full chat ALT number two is Temperature limited with a Cheap and cheerful Willhi Digital 12 volt Heater\Fridge controller The Yellow wire between the Alt. Regulator and Field Windings is switched out when the Stator reaches 75 Degrees C,once the Stator Temp. reduces the Field circuit is allowed to Generate Amps again A Probe is attached to the outside of the Alt. with a Large Hose Clip,the Willhi Controller can be set into a panel so that the displayed Temp can be seen/adjusted,it is a simple Modification CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGoat Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Quote Car alternators are not designed for continuous operation - though your duty doesn't sound as particularly onerous. However for boat operation my not-so-humble-opinion is that you'd be better off using a bus or truck type alternator with proper cooling and designed for a higher duty. Nothing wrong with than Adverc - per se - but they are intended to be used with higher duty kit. Silk pursers and sow's ears... Occasionally you can find good kit on ebay - but it'll cost a bit more.... Just had a look on fleabay - but they're all at silly prices. You need Leece-Neville kit. Now folks will come back and tell me I'm talking rubbish..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, cereal tiller said: The Yellow wire between the Alt. Regulator and Field Windings is switched out when the Stator reaches 75 Degrees C,once the Stator Temp. reduces the Field circuit is allowed to Generate Amps again A Probe is attached to the outside of the Alt. with a Large Hose Clip,the Willhi Controller can be set into a panel so that the displayed Temp can be Your a genius sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, rusty69 said: Your a genius sir! Incorrect,I am a retired Genius... Did the same Mod, on the 2 Engine Alts,works well,if the washing machine is heating Water or the Microwave is on the Alts.work at full output but the Temp. controller will allow them to cool when necessary. CT Edited May 18, 2017 by cereal tiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I can't comment on the techy side of this but tell you my experience. We 'chewed' through a couple of standard vetus fit alternators with the Adverc system fitted. Last replacement was a Prestolite , which touch wood has performed well, I think it is rated at 95 amps but not 100% sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 2 hours ago, roland elsdon said: We run a 70 amp alternator lucas clone with 2 domestic and one start battery through and adverc regulator. These days the adverc is less important as standard regulators appear to have higher voltage cutoff. Our only high current demand is a 12 v water heater that needs 24 amps for an hour or so. We never run this while the adverc is cycling. in the last 5 years we have killed 2 lucas clone alternators and the third now has the glow of death.. Charging starting at higher Rpms and light glowing dully all the time, it's still outputting at up to 35 amps but Historically this precedes a total fail. I think this is the diode pack. my question is do I simply get over it an accept that $65 alternators are designed to run for the warranty plus a day and built down to a price in Poland China Romania or India, or do I splash out $$$$ on an adverc one or a genuine lucas in the hope of getting longer life. We use the boat 4 months of the year continuously then go home to work. Hence the $$$ rather than pounds sorry. our last boat had same set up but a 100 amp alternator and 6 batteries never changed the alternator after the initial instal but I span it much faster it had a washing machine too. Sorry 127 clone alternator Roland, five gets you ten the alternator has the wrong handed fan on it David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Nibble Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Rectifier is the weak point of these machines and they really don't like battery boilers. There was a heavy duty rectifier available, I will check and see if it still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 On 18 May 2017 at 19:46, OldGoat said: Car alternators are not designed for continuous operation - though your duty doesn't sound as particularly onerous. However for boat operation my not-so-humble-opinion is that you'd be better off using a bus or truck type alternator with proper cooling and designed for a higher duty. Nothing wrong with than Adverc - per se - but they are intended to be used with higher duty kit. Silk pursers and sow's ears... Occasionally you can find good kit on ebay - but it'll cost a bit more.... Just had a look on fleabay - but they're all at silly prices. You need Leece-Neville kit. Now folks will come back and tell me I'm talking rubbish..... Not only that but they are likely to be in a warmer environment without a cooling airflow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland elsdon Posted May 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Batterys are OK even coming of mains with Good bats glow has started. With them flat it's the same. Glow is not dependant on load or voltage and is constant independant of adverc (diode pack?) it only started this time 2 days ago. Have changed regulator( no change) changed to non modified regulator no change, disconnected adverc no change. Hence its the alternator at fault. Alternator is 2 years old. The decision is $60 to $ 70 for a clone or 175 ish for a lucas haven't got adverc price yet, but they do a 70 amp Lucas replacement. it doesn't spin that fast it's an hb lister and it isn't geared up. Nor does it get very hot good point re fan but it's rh mounting on r side. Last one failed when engine had been on for 5 mins and was on initial charge. Batteries had come off mains charge 15 mins before. suspect it's just cheap. Will try a prestolite I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 If you liveaboard off grid then alternators are consumables, two to four years is about what I get, the harder they work the sooner they die. The Adverc is great but does make the alternators work even harder so this does not help with a long life. If you have space then its worth keeping a spare. It is possible to rebuild most alternators but unless you have suitable tools and skills, or have access to one of the few companies who can do this sort of thing, then its easier to get a new one. People like Sir Nibble are an endangered species these days. ...........Dasve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 32 minutes ago, roland elsdon said: Batterys are OK even coming of mains with Good bats glow has started. With them flat it's the same. Glow is not dependant on load or voltage and is constant independant of adverc (diode pack?) it only started this time 2 days ago. Have changed regulator( no change) changed to non modified regulator no change, disconnected adverc no change. Hence its the alternator at fault. Alternator is 2 years old. The decision is $60 to $ 70 for a clone or 175 ish for a lucas haven't got adverc price yet, but they do a 70 amp Lucas replacement. it doesn't spin that fast it's an hb lister and it isn't geared up. Nor does it get very hot good point re fan but it's rh mounting on r side. Last one failed when engine had been on for 5 mins and was on initial charge. Batteries had come off mains charge 15 mins before. suspect it's just cheap. Will try a prestolite I think looking at the alternator pulley face on, does it rotate clockwise or anticlockwise ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, dmr said: People like Sir Nibble are an endangered species these days. This is especially true with 24v alternators. I simply could not find a company willing/able to even test my 24v Leece Neville alternator. I bought a new one in the end to rule out a failing alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, Mike the Boilerman said: This is especially true with 24v alternators. I simply could not find a company willing/able to even test my 24v Leece Neville alternator. I bought a new one in the end to rule out a failing alternator. I can give you a phone number next time we meet. Trouble is the bloke is about 70 and trying really hard to retire but has so many people requesting work that he just can't escape. He has a lovely alternator test machine that also looks to be about 70 years old. He recently pressed new bearings into one of my alternators and cleaned up the slip rings for £10 which is probably why he has too much work. You could take it to a garage and ask them to test it but they look at you sort of funny .............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, mango said: Not only that but they are likely to be in a warmer environment without a cooling airflow. Excess Temperature is,IMHO the most frequent cause of failure in Alternators,about which I posted an inexpensive method of Temp. control. Have tried to wreck a 127 type by overloading and restricting airflow,the Temp control prevents destruction.should improve machine and belt life Time will tell CT Edited May 19, 2017 by cereal tiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, cereal tiller said: Excess Temperature is,IMHO the most frequent cause of failure in Alternators,which I posted an inexpensive method of Temp. control. Have tried to wreck a 127 type by overloading and restricting airflow,the Temp control prevents destruction.should improve machine and belt life Time will tell CT Has anyone mentioned. You sir, are a genius (retired)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland elsdon Posted May 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Clockwise rotation mounted on left . Standard lister hb. Standard pulley sizes. It's not overworked. I think it's a quality issue. Just wondering if paying 3 times more will give me 6 yrs service before I swap in the blown spare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Ok. That is the usual way that the majority of alternators are driven, and most alternators come with a fan for that direction of rotation or a bi-directional fan. So yours is almost certainly the correct one. You can check it by holding a smoking joss stick at the back of the alternator. The smoke should be drawn through it to emerge from around the fan pulley. Some alternators have an interior fan, my Hitachi one does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 47 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: This is especially true with 24v alternators. I simply could not find a company willing/able to even test my 24v Leece Neville alternator. I bought a new one in the end to rule out a failing alternator. Come to sunny Lowestoft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Come to sunny Lowestoft Its only sunny marginally earlier than the rest of the country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 15 minutes ago, bizzard said: Ok. That is the usual way that the majority of alternators are driven, and most alternators come with a fan for that direction of rotation or a bi-directional fan. So yours is almost certainly the correct one. You can check it by holding a smoking joss stick at the back of the alternator. The smoke should be drawn through it to emerge from around the fan pulley. Some alternators have an interior fan, my Hitachi one does. I am so excited, Mr Bizzard has slipped up on a technical matter and so I can correct him, and this is a very rare thing indeed. Alternator fans are centrifugal so all suck from the centre through the alternator and blow outwards, the blades are slightly shaped to optimise air flow but a fan running backwards will still suck in the same direction, but not quite as well. However I might just have fallen into some kind of humorous trap relating to joss sticks??? .............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 hour ago, cereal tiller said: Excess Temperature is,IMHO the most frequent cause of failure in Alternators,which I posted an inexpensive method of Temp. control. Have tried to wreck a 127 type by overloading and restricting airflow,the Temp control prevents destruction.should improve machine and belt life Time will tell CT That makes sense. Please can we have a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mango Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 36 minutes ago, bizzard said: Ok. That is the usual way that the majority of alternators are driven, and most alternators come with a fan for that direction of rotation or a bi-directional fan. So yours is almost certainly the correct one. You can check it by holding a smoking joss stick at the back of the alternator. The smoke should be drawn through it to emerge from around the fan pulley. Some alternators have an interior fan, my Hitachi one does. You could start an alternator fan club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, mango said: That makes sense. Please can we have a link. No link needed,the Temperature controllers are easily available from sources such as ebay,just ask for 12 volt digital panel mounted Temperature Controller,will come complete with probe on a1 Meter cable,if you go ahead with the modification feel free to P.M me for installation details,the mod to the Alternator Field wire is simple and Quick,no dismantling required. CT Edited May 19, 2017 by cereal tiller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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