Problematic Dimensions ?

[bear_trees]

Dear Friends, 

I am looking into getting a boat fairly soon. 

My business is near Cheshunt and my family lives in London, so I thought a happy floating (and mobile) solution between being near the two would be moving onto a boat.

Please bear in mind that I will not be moving around much other than between the Lee Valley and Uxbridge (at most). 

I have been doing some research into height and depth restrictions of boat sizes on the London canals. What is your experience of the depth, width and height of London canals ? I've been looking at buying a barge abroad and having it towed over. The kind of barges I have been looking at vary between (metric)

Air Draft : 2.5 - 3.5 m

Draft (depth) : 1.1 - 1.5 m

For barges  between the 15 - 20 m mark. 

Do you think these kind of dimensions would obstruct me from moving through London canals, even though I plan to generally be moored in the Lee Valley? 

Many Thanks in advance

 

 

 

 

[mross]

The route-planning website, https://canalplan.eu/cgi-bin/canal.cgi can tell you, if you input these dimensions and then try to plan a route......................

[bear_trees]

Amazing. Thank you @mross

[Mike Todd]

Do also research where you are going to keep it as well as what happens on the move.

[alan_fincher]

Even in the restricted area you suggest a draught of 1 metre would be fairly limiting.

A draught of 1.5 metres would be for masochists only.

1.5 metres is virtually FIVE feet - you need to do a lot more research!

[Chewbacka]

and just how wide is this boat???

[MtB]

4 hours ago, bear_trees said:

 

I have been doing some research into height and depth restrictions of boat sizes on the London canals. What is your experience of the depth, width and height of London canals ? I've been looking at buying a barge abroad and having it towed over. The kind of barges I have been looking at vary between (metric)

Air Draft : 2.5 - 3.5 m

Draft (depth) : 1.1 - 1.5 m

 

Bear in mind there is often little correlation between the depth claimed by CRT and the actual depth of the canal. Particularly once you go near the sides. 

In fact I'd suggest in a boat of the draft you mention, mooring to the bank will be difficult if not impossible in most places.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Bear in mind there is often little correlation between the depth claimed by CRT and the actual depth of the canal

Many a true word :

My boat 'draws' almost 5 feet (1.5 metres) (depending on how full the fuel tank is).

C&RT 'claim' to dredge the FossDyke to a minimum of 6 feet, I can only get a few miles before I am seriously grounded. Once made it to Saxilby but could not get anywhere near the edge just stayed 'hard' on the bottom over night.

I have also occasionally 'graunched' along the 'Main Navigable Channel' on the Trent which C&RT claim to maintain at a minimum of 1.8mt (6 feet) and the Fraenkel Report Dredge Depth suggesting 2.68 metres.

[bear_trees]

OK !

Very illuminating. Thank you all for your responses.

So in your experience of boating in London, a draft of up to 1 meter is doable in most places ?

As experienced boaters, this is the maximum draft that you would recommend considering in a prospective boat ?

Thanks again

 

 

 

 

[bear_trees]

Would London boaters (very kindly) care to share the draft & length of their boat ?

[Graham Davis]

I suggest that before anyone recommends anything we need a few more details of the type of boat you are thinking about. Wide, narrow, Dutch barge, cruiser etc.

[Paul C]

6 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

I suggest that before anyone recommends anything we need a few more details of the type of boat you are thinking about. Wide, narrow, Dutch barge, cruiser etc.

Yes indeed, irrespective of its actual draft, it may simply be too ugly to travel on the canals.

[bear_trees]

8 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

I suggest that before anyone recommends anything we need a few more details of the type of boat you are thinking about. Wide, narrow, Dutch barge, cruiser etc.

Thanks @Graham Davis

It's a dutch barge, a tjalk.

Here is the spec :

Length : 16.7 
Beam : 3.56 

Air Draft : 2.7 
Draft : 1.1 

 

 

[chubby]

ETA

post removed . cant be bothered with this stuff again 

Edited May 13, 2017 by chubby

[bear_trees]

I can see you all think this is a ridiculous idea.

As this is a forum, and I am new to this, I would appreciate some technical advice as to your experience of the dimensions of London canals.

We are not born knowing everything and a forum is a tool to gain knowledge.

Thanks in advance for your time.

 

[bear_trees]

So re : maximum draft - @alan_fincher you have said  that anything over 1 meter makes sailing & mooring difficult / impossible ?

So in your experience what is the ideal ? Generally what have you find the depth of the sides of most London canals to be ?

Also, re: height in tunnels / bridges (again in London) -- would you be able to direct me to where could I find out more information about this ?

[chubby]

why not go for a bike ride along londons canals and ask yourself where you intend to moor this boat built for continental canals and rivers ? 

To put it concisely . Your proposed boat is too big . I trust of course that you have experience handling one of these barges . 

Your ideas are bonkers . You need a smaller boat . Much smaller . 

The above is an opinion only . If you havent had a good look at where you intend to moor then in my opinion your total " research " to date is zero 

I know this appears very rude . Its a message that will be far from welcome i suspect . But it is honest . So go and have good look at Londons canals and ask yourself if your oversized boat is suitable 

cheers

[Alan de Enfield]

The 'claimed' dredge depth of the Lee Navigation is 1.3 metres.

From my experience of the 'claimed' and 'actual's on other part of the system I expect that you could probably rely on the actual being around 1 metre

[chubby]

Can i also recommend you carry out further research into the practicalities of living on a boat - the responsibilities you have , the obligations you have if you have no mooring .

 All of this is essential knowledge that you need in order to assess whether your plans are viable . 

[Sir Nibble]

 

10 minutes ago, bear_trees said:

I can see you all think this is a ridiculous idea.

As this is a forum, and I am new to this, I would appreciate some technical advice as to your experience of the dimensions of London canals.

We are not born knowing everything and a forum is a tool to gain knowledge.

Thanks in advance for your time.

 

I am sorry you get this idea. Lots of people on this forum live on their boats and the idea is far from ridiculous. Let me explain. The waterways re a very special place. They are a haven of tranquility with wildlife peacefully going about it's business surrounded by picturesque waterway infrastructure. It is a delight and a pleasure to cruise along taking in the surroundings. Some areas, notably London have a proliferation of people who have taken to living on a boat because of silly London prices. Mostly they want to pick a prime spot and not move but are forced into  minimal movement around fiercely contested mooring space. Some would argue that such use of the waterway as a purely residential resource destroys it's special character. If you can assure the members that it is your intention to use the boat primarily for boating then you may find a more helpful response.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Sir Nibble said:

If you can assure the members that it is your intention to use the boat primarily for boating...............

 

6 hours ago, bear_trees said:

Please bear in mind that I will not be moving around much.........

That answers that then.

[mark99]

Just travelled from Uxbridge right up the Lee. We are 2 foot 5" draft narrowboat and near Islington I got so grounded albeit poss on an obstruction, the only way off was to run water down via the Islington tunnel pound.

The trouble with deep drafted boat is you end up mooring a long way from bank. If you have a widebeam you end up partially blocking the channel. Doeable on the Lee possibly at the London end but there aint much space left.

Nb met a new boater around Enfield who had been sold a sailing boat with a mini keel. He had to moor with front end in only..... this chap had done no research however.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chubby]

Im going to attempt to be a little more reasonable . 

My suggestion would be you need to do alot more research . Your proposed boat is unsuitable for the waters on which you intend to use it . Unless you are experienced at handling such a boat i expect you will find it a chore to move it in such a congested area . 

You would be wise to consider the idea of a much smaller boat . A narrowboat would best . This will provide much leas living space than a dutch barge . But it is more suitable , more manouverable , more moorable ( is that a real word ?) .

London is filling up with folk with similar ideas as yourself and theres only so much towpath to moor against , only so many places to take on water or empty toilets . I certainly wouldnt like to boat there and im " down south " . 

Its an emotive can of worms youve opened in your thread so please bear that in mind .

Go and look at Londons canals - as i say a long bike ride will open your eyes a bit so you can reassess your plans . Ask yourself if a narrowboat provides enough living space . I live on one , by myself & i have more space than i need onboard . A narrowboat will be far more suitable , but bear in mind that you will have obligations about mooring and moving if your license application indicates that you have no home mooring . Nowhere are boat movements more closely monitered than in London - fall foul of " the rules " & your plans could quickly become a bit of a mare . 

More homework & more " on the ground " research is needed and a reconsideration as to boat size and type .

 

[Billy Boy]

Thames, suitable river, big docks lots of moorings. Perfect for that size of vessel.

[Alan de Enfield]

Of the total (UK wide boats on C&RT waters) issued with a restricted licence for not moving enough almost 50% of those were in 'London'

Boaters without a home mooring Monitoring review – March 2016

Headlines:  

During the first year just over 5600 licences for boats without a declared home mooring became due for renewal, so in line with the new process their movement patterns were reviewed 

Just under 40% were subject to a more detailed review for a variety of reasons, of which 1130 were offered a restricted licence. 

652 boats have so far taken out a restricted licences as a result of this process 

220 are still within that restricted licence period 

432 have reached the end of their restricted licence -

268 showed improvement and allowed further licence -

96 sold boat or obtained home mooring or moved away from our waters -

68 were refused a further CC licence, of which 45 remain in the enforcement process

 

Whilst you have not declared that you will not have a mooring and will be CCing, you have chosen the most 'rules enforced' area of the UK and, a boat that is most unsuitable for the waters, even if there were not 100s of others already clogging up the system.

Find yourself a proper, residential, long term mooring and your problems will go away.

You will find a mooring about 4 shelves above the porno-mags & alongside the hens-teeth.

As has been suggested a number of times - do some 'on the ground' research before buying the boat - it may save you losing your 'investment'.