Your opinion on these?

[Sally Grim]

36 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Looks overpriced again to me.

I would politely say that if you are looking at.....

Boats that are 45 feet, 50 feet and 56 feet
Boats that are reverse and conventional layout
Boats that are cruiser stern and semi trad
Boats that are cassette and pump out loos

you probably have not thought enough about what you actually need to be ready to make the right decision.

Of course other people will say you will know when you have found the right boat, but you still don't seem to be at that place either, so possibly none of these are the right boat for you?

I have thought quite a lot about it, actually, and the ideal boat would be 48-50 ft (52 at the most). I wouldn't go down to 40, because I don´t want to make up the bed every night. It would be a cruiser or a semitrad, as we mostly will be two on the boat, and that would give us more room for both of us when cruising. As to reverse or traditional lay out, I reserve judgement. Reverse layout looks nice, because it gives easier contact between the one at the helm and a person inside the boat. But I haven´t tried it. As to the big question, cassettes seems more flexible, so I would prefer that, but I don´t think that should be the most important deciding factor.

But the most important aspect for me is to get a boat in good working condition, which doesn´t need a lot of repairs, overplating, TLC, etc in the overseeable future. I do not want a project. And the engine must look nice and clean.

And I have searched this forum a lot to try and learn, and there is so many people who says that they end up with a boat quite different from their initial requirement. So i try not to narrow my searches to much. I might seem a bit undecided (or quite a lot, some may say), but I am actually starting coming to grips with this. I hope....  ;) 

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Sally Grim said:

And I have searched this forum a lot to try and learn, and there is so many people who says that they end up with a boat quite different from their initial requirement. So i try not to narrow my searches to much. I might seem a bit undecided (or quite a lot, some may say), but I am actually starting coming to grips with this. I hope....

Follow your heart, but buy with your head.

[Sally Grim]

1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

You often find cruiser stern boats with the bed right at the back end up having to fit a pram cover, (...)

 

Why is that? Aren´t cruiser stern boats normally weather proof?

45 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought ours was quite 'nice'

 

I  think that looks very nice, Alan.  

[MtB]

On 14/05/2017 at 18:32, Alan de Enfield said:

I thought ours was quite 'nice'

 

Agreed, it does look nice. Looks like a pleasingly 'ordinary' bow though, unlike a lot of Reeves hulls which have the weirdest bows, almost like a red Indian canoe shape, completely different from yours. Will see if I can find a photo.

When was your shell built? 

[MtB]

Here's an example of the 'canoe' style bow built be Reeves...

Conveniently moored in front of a boat with a more conventional bow shape for comparision.

http://www.southislandmarina.co.uk/home/index.php/for-sale/60ft-semi-traditional-narrowboat-built-by-g-j-reeves-with-london-mooring

[Neil2]

1 hour ago, Sally Grim said:

Why is that? Aren´t cruiser stern boats normally weather proof?

...........

Having the bed right in front of the stern doors is draughty for a start but can you imagine what it's like when it's raining?  You could of course just use the bow doors for getting on and off, but when cruising at some point you will have to open the doors/hatch and your bedroom is then open to the elements.  I reckon this is why the reverse layout has become popular on cruisers.  

With a trad you have the back cabin as a "buffer".

Personally I think a cruiser/semi trad stern is a luxury on a boat under 50 foot.  We all have different priorities but the hardest thing to get used to on a narrowboat is the lack of storage space, especially for those items you just don't want in your lounge/bedroom.  That's why you see so many liveaboards with loads of clutter on the roof but even if you are a leisure boater there's never enough storage.  That's the other advantage a trad has and it matters more on a small boat.  Of course the trade off is the lack of social space outside if you are a couple/family but this isn't as important as you might think on canals where there's locks to work, bridges to open etc.  On rivers I will admit I often wish we had a cruiser but then again on rivers I wish I had a "proper" boat.. (that ought to get a response). 

   

Edited May 14, 2017 by Neil2

[Alan de Enfield]

41 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

When was your shell built? 

1999 (45 footer)

[Dr Bob]

We've bought a boat in the last week so have had chance to see first hand the current state of the market. To us, it seems a sellers market so not as easy to find good boats at good prices. We looked for around a month before we saw the one we wanted - a 12 year old, 56ft for £45K. All the others didnt have the oomph we wanted. This boat had just arrived at the brokers and was due to be listed in a couple of days. We held off offering and 48 hours later it was gone - for the asking price. Honey B was coming on at the same time at the same marina (5 weeks ago I think) and we didnt think it was anywhere near the value of our target boat. It obviously hasnt sold yet. Is it overpriced - we thought so.

We kept looking hard and found a 62ft (2002) for £43K (which was reduced after survey) - in tired condition but everything working apart from the squirrel - (hence the discount). We offered immeadiately, a bit under the asking price and got it.

Based on that experience Eventide seems very over priced and you can get a lot more for your money but need to be quick once you see one. I was totally underwhelmed by Whilton marina sales so would never had bought one from there just because of the state of the boats they have there.

 

[MtB]

On 14/05/2017 at 20:23, Neil2 said:

Having the bed right in front of the stern doors is draughty for a start but can you imagine what it's like when it's raining?  You could of course just use the bow doors for getting on and off, but when cruising at some point you will have to open the doors/hatch and your bedroom is then open to the elements.  I reckon this is why the reverse layout has become popular on cruisers.  

With a trad you have the back cabin as a "buffer".

Personally I think a cruiser/semi trad stern is a luxury on a boat under 50 foot.  We all have different priorities but the hardest thing to get used to on a narrowboat is the lack of storage space, especially for those items you just don't want in your lounge/bedroom.  That's why you see so many liveaboards with loads of clutter on the roof but even if you are a leisure boater there's never enough storage.  That's the other advantage a trad has and it matters more on a small boat.  Of course the trade off is the lack of social space outside if you are a couple/family but this isn't as important as you might think on canals where there's locks to work, bridges to open etc.  On rivers I will admit I often wish we had a cruiser but then again on rivers I wish I had a "proper" boat.. (that ought to get a response). 

   

 

Very true.

In addition bear in mind the poster a while back (can't remember who it was) who said he compromised his instinct to get a trad and bought a cruiser stern instead so there was social space on the back deck to cruise with friends and family when they visited. He wished he hadn't as in the five years he lived aboard he only ever went out cruising with guests twice, and for this minor pleasure lived for five years in a boat that wasn't really what he wanted. 

The lesson being buy a boat that suits YOUR needs, not those of your visitors.

[Athy]

5 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

  I would hate to have a cross bed in a leisure boat, but many like them.

 

That's an interesting comment. Why? We like ours, and it saves about 18" in internal length compared with a longitudinal bed, useful in our 45-footer.

[lulu fish]

I  prefer cross beds, firstly for the same reason as Athy (I also have a fairly short boat) but I also like to have a bedside table which is awkward with a lengthways bed.

[alan_fincher]

10 minutes ago, Athy said:

That's an interesting comment. Why? We like ours, and it saves about 18" in internal length compared with a longitudinal bed, useful in our 45-footer.

 

Because:

1) I'm over 6' tall.and the usual "between linings" dimension in a modern (6' 10" beam) boat is seldom much greater than 6', resulting in a bed that is shorter than I would like.  (When I'm in my truly traditional back cabin of one of my working boats, (which are 2" greater beam than a modern leisure boat), I learn to live with it, but if it can be avoided in a modern boat why restrict yourself to a short bed.

2) I dislike something that blocks any corridor once made up, for what is supposed to be the main "permanent" bed.

I have acknowledged that not everybody feels the same way, though!  If I were shorter, I might feel less strongly!

[lulu fish]

I'm short like a hobbit. If I was giant I would get rid of the cross bed.

[adam1uk]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Here's an example of the 'canoe' style bow built be Reeves...

Conveniently moored in front of a boat with a more conventional bow shape for comparision.

http://www.southislandmarina.co.uk/home/index.php/for-sale/60ft-semi-traditional-narrowboat-built-by-g-j-reeves-with-london-mooring

Supposedly based on a Bantock.  But Reeves would build whatever bow shape you wanted, so while there are lots of the Bantock ones about, there are plenty of other shapes too.

[Richard10002]

6 hours ago, Neil2 said:

You often find cruiser stern boats with the bed right at the back end up having to fit a pram cover, that's ok if you don't mind putting the thing up and down every time you go cruising.  

I have a 45ft cruiser stern with the bedroom in the back cabin and no prom cover. There are a couple of wardrobes either side of the steps to the back door, so the end of the bed is 3 or 4 ft from the doors and hatch. The weather and doors have never had any effect on the bed itself, and definitely no need for a pram cover.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Richard10002

[Athy]

8 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Because:

1) I'm over 6' tall.and the usual "between linings" dimension in a modern (6' 10" beam) boat is seldom much greater than 6', resulting in a bed that is shorter than I would like. 

Yes, that's a very valid point - and one that didn't really occur to me because I'm rather shorter at 5'10" and Mrs. Athy is rather less tall than me. Thank you for pointing it out.

[Sally Grim]

17 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

....
you probably have not thought enough about what you actually need to be ready to make the right decision.
 

Hi, Alan F!

Since yesterday, I have thought a lot about your candid comment. And in a way you are dead right. Not that I havn't thought a lot about what sort of boat I want - I have. But, because there are relatively few of them on the market (they all seem to be 57 ft trads), I have started to let my requirements slip. And the ones we like often have a large price tag to them. So little by little, the budget has stretched too. So thank you for pointing that out, it was really helpful in bringing me back on track!

Edited May 15, 2017 by Sally Grim

[Neil2]

10 minutes ago, Sally Grim said:

Hi, Alan F!

Since yesterday, I have thought a lot about your candid comment. And in a way you are dead right. Not that I havn't thought a lot about what sort of boat I want - I have. But, because there are relatively few of them on the market (they all seem to be 57 ft trads), I have started to let my requirements slip. And the ones we like often have a large price tag to them. So little by little, the budget has stretched too. So thank you for pointing that out, it was really helpful in bringing me back on track!

I think that's very gracious of you Sally if I might say so.

Fact is we have all been through this process and it's oh so easy to get sidetracked - Eventide is a classic example of a nice boat that you could easily end up convincing yourself you really want, - except you don't.   When you get to the upper reaches of the market you really shouldn't compromise on your basic must haves, let the other mugs do that.  

The only problem is you will almost certainly discover after a while that your priorities change which is why most of us have owned more than one boat.  Oh, there's also a thing called "boat envy" which I personally have a really bad case of..

Good luck with the search anyway. 

[WotEver]

19 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Here's an example of the 'canoe' style bow built be Reeves...

When we spoke to Graham about possibly having a boat built (about 2 years before he lost the business and his house) we commented on the different bow shapes. His reply was "It's your money, we'll build whatever you want!"  So I don't believe he necessarily had a house style so much as a house preference. 

[WotEver]

15 hours ago, adam1uk said:

Reeves would build whatever bow shape you wanted, so while there are lots of the Bantock ones about, there are plenty of other shapes too.

Missed this. Yes, absolutely.

[Athy]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

When we spoke to Graham about possibly having a boat built (about 2 years before he lost the business and his house) we commented on the different bow shapes. His reply was "It's your money, we'll build whatever you want!"  So I don't believe he necessarily had a house style so much as a house preference. 

Reeves were a well-respected and, I thought, flourishing boat building business. What went wrong?

[WotEver]

40 minutes ago, Athy said:

Reeves were a well-respected and, I thought, flourishing boat building business. What went wrong?

I don't know. They seemed very busy when we visited. The yard and workshops were tidy and everybody seemed busy and happy. Two years later it was reported on here that the business had gone under and, as he'd used his house as collateral, he'd lost that too. 

[MtB]

52 minutes ago, Athy said:

Reeves were a well-respected and, I thought, flourishing boat building business. What went wrong?

 

A business being respected is not the same a business making a comfortable profit. Plenty of respected businesses go to the wall because they don't charge enough for their product/service. Or the market won't pay enough. 

The reverse is also true. Look at Pillings Lock Marina!

[Athy]

22 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A business being respected is not the same a business making a comfortable profit. Plenty of respected businesses go to the wall because they don't charge enough for their product/service. Or the market won't pay enough. 

The reverse is also true. Look at Pillings Lock Marina!

Point taken!

[adam1uk]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Reeves were a well-respected and, I thought, flourishing boat building business. What went wrong?

I've often wondered whether OwnerShips had anything to do with it.  Reeves had built around a hundred shells for OwnerShips at the rate of about six a year, so when they decided to move production to Poland, that was a big hole to fill.  All those boats were fitted out by Milburn Boats, and they went bust a couple of years later too.  It must be easy to begin to rely on regular work like that.