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LadyG

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What would you be looking to spend on the boat?

This could have a bearing as mine for instance was toppy but its a reliable and well specified boat with two or more of everything. If you buy cheap you may end up forever broken down and at mercy of canal prolongation/aggro time and prices.

 

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On 2017-5-12 at 20:03, mark99 said:

What would you be looking to spend on the boat?

This could have a bearing as mine for instance was toppy but its a reliable and well specified boat with two or more of everything. If you buy cheap you may end up forever broken down and at mercy of canal prolongation/aggro time and prices.

OK, well, there is a trade off here between cost of boat and what is left over to maintain it.

 I see some boats at £23,000 which seem to be well maintained, but are older than I would like [ie pre 2000], however if they were 10/6/ 4 when built, and built by a well known manufacturer, and still look in good nick, then they shoud not need major surgery on the hull, I mean they are steel boxes after all.

I would be wiling to spend a few thousand having a major engine and electrics service, but i would not buy one which was obviousy in poor condition.

However, the main consideration would be that I could move on board and turn the engine and go on the day of purchase. Not that I would actually do that, as I might need a few days rest in, or near a marina.

 I have seen boats I like which are too expensive for me, they are priced at over £55K

I have seen boats which are simiar to those I like but are a lot cheaper, due  to age.

I think the best thing is to get my capital in my hand and buy what is available, but which might be available at a discount due to my cash avaiability.

I woud not buy something which has been difficult to sell because of its age/style.

I don't see the need for a boat bigger than 55 feet.

I think it needs to be at least 45 feet, and to have a tidy, modern look.

There are some which have been renovated by a knowledgeable boat owner, and they have ben well done, then there are the others, where the alterations are best torn out!

 

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Edited by ladygardener
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When I am shopping for items that cost a lot, I look at the highest price and then go for something at around half of that.  Or the 'median' value.  For £40,000 to £50,000 is a great price range for finding decent boats.

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I'm not a liveaboard, but one thing that I would suggest is to get a boat with a solid fuel stove near the middle.  On ours it is at the front and does not heat the rear half of the boat.  Of couse, you CAN get boats with radiators fed from a back boiler.  It's also nice to have a second form of heating, either gas or diesel.  It could make all the difference in a harsh winter.

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3 hours ago, mross said:

I'm not a liveaboard, but one thing that I would suggest is to get a boat with a solid fuel stove near the middle.  On ours it is at the front and does not heat the rear half of the boat.  Of couse, you CAN get boats with radiators fed from a back boiler.  It's also nice to have a second form of heating, either gas or diesel.  It could make all the difference in a harsh winter.

+1

45ft cruiser stern with Boatman stove at the front... gets the lounge red hot, but the bedroom can remain a bit chilly.

Also have a Truma combined gas water and warm air heater which takes the chill off, and is handy if it's not cold enough for the Boatman, but too cold for nothing.

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On 5/12/2017 at 19:50, Murflynn said:

Has anyone come across any statistics relating to the number of failed hopefuls (who probably don't post on or read this forum), compared with the number of keen successful live-aboards (who are well represented here)?

I dont have any statistics but wife and I moved aboard in 89 and we have met literaly countless couples over the ensuing years who have moved aboard keen as mustard but over ninety nine percent of them no longer live aboard. The reasons are too numerous to mention running from not understanding what its all about to health and financial reasons. What I do know is that the vast majority of the liveaboard boaters and I mean vast majority are not on this forum or any of its counterparts so the forum is useless for statistical analysis of boat dwellers. As a for instance I know everyone who moors here at Heyford including my business partners who live aboard and have never once looked at this forum and the only other ones are Bones who no longer posts and one other of the several liveaboards, it is deffo mainly house dwellers on the forum which I suppose is to be expected as there are so very few of us living aboard in the uk.

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4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I dont have any statistics but wife and I moved aboard in 89 and we have met literaly countless couples over the ensuing years who have moved aboard keen as mustard but over ninety nine percent of them no longer live aboard. The reasons are too numerous to mention running from not understanding what its all about to health and financial reasons. What I do know is that the vast majority of the liveaboard boaters and I mean vast majority are not on this forum or any of its counterparts so the forum is useless for statistical analysis of boat dwellers. As a for instance I know everyone who moors here at Heyford including my business partners who live aboard and have never once looked at this forum and the only other ones are Bones who no longer posts and one other of the several liveaboards, it is deffo mainly house dwellers on the forum which I suppose is to be expected as there are so very few of us living aboard in the uk.

 

Is it?

I can feel a poll coming on.....

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Is it?

I can feel a poll coming on.....

Yeah would be good to see how many ACTUALY liveaboard and how many think they qualify because they cruise in the summer then hibernate in bricks and mortar for winter. Set a poll up Mike its beyond me.

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Great advice from everyone.....but buying a boat in a day!!!

Maybe if you dont get a survey. We have just bought one and it took nearly a month waiting to get a surveyor lined up, the lift out and then the seller was off on holiday! I had the money to transfer there and then but delay, delay, delay. If no survey then maybe we would have got it in a few hours. I was actually almost convinced not to have a survey but listened to SWMBO. In the end it saved us a grand off the purchase price and we do know what state the boat is in - so there was a upside but we have lost a month we could have had on the boat.

I was a bit surprised how long the transaction took!

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4 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

+1

45ft cruiser stern with Boatman stove at the front... gets the lounge red hot, but the bedroom can remain a bit chilly.

Also have a Truma combined gas water and warm air heater which takes the chill off, and is handy if it's not cold enough for the Boatman, but too cold for nothing.

I would have to be warm, and certainly a good stove is a priority, I think there is even an consideration/option for more than one stove, maybe a Refleks diesel, and if it is sub zero, an odd night sleeping  close to the stove. I think it would be essential to buy plenty of coal [exel]. A Webasto type heater with radiators might be a good idea, but it might be expensive to install.

If I had a back boiler with one big radiator in the bedroom, would this stay cosy 24/7?

I would also have a fan thing that sits on top of the stove and circulates air.

Then there is thick wool carpeting to cover the floor and improve insulation from the ccccoldwater.

Actually I have used an electric 240v overblanket at home, and they are fantastically cosy, if I have an inverter, maybe I can plug in overnight without wiping out the batteries?

Edited by ladygardener
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7 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Great advice from everyone.....but buying a boat in a day!!!

Maybe if you dont get a survey. We have just bought one and it took nearly a month waiting to get a surveyor lined up, the lift out and then the seller was off on holiday! I had the money to transfer there and then but delay, delay, delay. If no survey then maybe we would have got it in a few hours. I was actually almost convinced not to have a survey but listened to SWMBO. In the end it saved us a grand off the purchase price and we do know what state the boat is in - so there was a upside but we have lost a month we could have had on the boat.

I was a bit surprised how long the transaction took!

No. I mean I have to sell the house one day and move on board straight after as I have no where else to go. It does not mean I can't have it surveyed before I pay for the boat 

 

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1 hour ago, ladygardener said:

No. I mean I have to sell the house one day and move on board straight after as I have no where else to go. It does not mean I can't have it surveyed before I pay for the boat 

 

I suggest you get the house sold and rent a place for six months while you look for a boat in earnest. 

Trying to do it all on the same day is a recipe for grievous compromise, in my opinion.

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22 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I suggest you get the house sold and rent a place for six months while you look for a boat in earnest. 

Trying to do it all on the same day is a recipe for grievous compromise, in my opinion.

I am looking for a boat now, the biggest probem is that they are all in difficut to access locations, renting would be no use, I might as well stay in my own house. I am also looking for a buyer, this is a small town and there are several landlords who would buy this property without any difficulty, ie not a mortgage. and no survey.

anyway, I am sure it will work out ok.

I don t see the difficulty, its not as if one can rent on a day to day basis, usually its a min of 6 months and a deposit is needed, then there is all the faff of utilities etc etc. It would cost about £3000 , and lots of problems. I might as well tear up £3000.

Or get a buy to rent mortgage on the flat and rent it out, taking  capital out to pay for the boat and using the rent to pay mortgage and a bit left over.

 

Edited by ladygardener
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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Ok so you exchange contracts to sell in one month. You find a boat, get it surveyed to fit the timescale and it fails the survey abysmally with three days to go to completion.

Now what?

I don t survey a boat which is likely to fail, whatever that means, and i dont leave it till 3 days before sale of house. Also I have more than  one boat in the pipeline, there are hundreds available, and i can offer subject to survey. 

A house sale always takes about 6 to 8 weeks and I can easily slow the process down, eg sudden holiday syndrome.

Anyway, please don t argue any more, you have made your point, and I have answered you.

 

 

Edited by ladygardener
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8 hours ago, mross said:

When I am shopping for items that cost a lot, I look at the highest price and then go for something at around half of that.  Or the 'median' value.  For £40,000 to £50,000 is a great price range for finding decent boats.

Agreed

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Just a few thoughts of my own to mention based on things I have not seen so far:

Given your price range (which I think is perfectly realistic for a good, solid reasonably cosmetically ok boat if you are savvy) I would be more concerned about the condition and maintenance than putting a date cut off in. Some builders from 25 and 30 years ago are now highly sought after and often fabulously maintained and will survey well, whilst some post-Y2K generic large-production craft may have been patchy to start with and poorly maintained since. I'd add another 10 years back to your preferred boat age search, personally.

Having 50k plus to play with is a nice idea, but not realistic for everyone! You really do have to have the money in your hand to buy though-or even browse meaningfully with a view to buying if you see the right boat-so the selling of flat and finding of interim accom would be my priority. If you are absolutely out of friends and relatives that will tolerate you, I think I would sell the accom and spend a grand or so renting somewhere in the Midlands for a month or doing an off-season deal with a BandB or something (due to the proximity of so many brokerages) and shopping in earnest. Another thing to consider is that a reasonable number of marinas and moorings have a licence for a couple of touring caravans too-Braunston Marina for one-so perhaps buying a very cheap caravan to stay in while you search and then selling it on when you get the boat would be another option, and you might pretty much get your money back, minus the nightly charges to park up.

In winter I have found that I am comfortably warm on the boat regardless of the outside temperature for literally the first time in my life. I love my stove, but honestly the dust that accumulates in every nook and cranny within the course of a week pisses me off no end, and causes me endless existential crisis because I fecking hate my home being dirty, but not as much as a I fecking hate cleaning it.

I have found carpet on a boat to be a sodding terrible idea-a pair of good slippers is infinitely better and easier to keep clean!

Regarding winter provisions etc., I have had several different moorings since I got the boat from a selection of landlords (lest said about the last one the better... oops, too late!) and have found that when it comes to water taps in winter, if the moorers themselves don't make the effort to keep them maintained and un-frozen no one else is likely to-and they are of course as likely to freeze as any CRT tap. This has held true in my experience for everything from 200+ berth marinas to a two-boat private mooring, although I suspect some places take care of this for you...

Ps., Elsans can and do freeze too; this is also not fun at all.


 

 

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5 hours ago, Starcoaster said:

In winter I have found that I am comfortably warm on the boat regardless of the outside temperature for literally the first time in my life. I love my stove, but honestly the dust that accumulates in every nook and cranny within the course of a week pisses me off no end, and causes me endless existential crisis because I fecking hate my home being dirty, but not as much as a I fecking hate cleaning it.

There is something wrong here. My stove creates dust but I have no sense of it spreading about the boat within a week. 

I use Excel, perhaps that gives a heavier dust? I take care to brush dust off the stove as when it gets hot it can be lifted by the rising air & spread. I take great care when emptying the ashpan to minimise the air disturbance which can create dust clouds. But non of that is revolutionary.

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8 hours ago, ladygardener said:

I would have to be warm, and certainly a good stove is a priority, I think there is even an consideration/option for more than one stove, maybe a Refleks diesel, and if it is sub zero, an odd night sleeping  close to the stove. I think it would be essential to buy plenty of coal [exel]. A Webasto type heater with radiators might be a good idea, but it might be expensive to install.

If I had a back boiler with one big radiator in the bedroom, would this stay cosy 24/7?

I would also have a fan thing that sits on top of the stove and circulates air.

Then there is thick wool carpeting to cover the floor and improve insulation from the ccccoldwater.

Actually I have used an electric 240v overblanket at home, and they are fantastically cosy, if I have an inverter, maybe I can plug in overnight without wiping out the batteries?

My priorities would be:

Good insulation - this would have to be sprayfoam for me.

Good insulation - yes its that important

Central stove - burning smokeless fuel, in 1st class order, with no insulation on the flue.

Reasonable sized coal bunker - say 10 bags Excel with more space for deep winter

Spare parts for the stove eg a spare complete door so broken glass would not be a problem.

With this on my 60ft boat I am always warm once the boat has warmed up after arrival. 

I don't know what contribution is made by my having the underfloor sprayfoamed.

No you can't have an electric blanket, nice though they are! You won't need it and they carry too heavy a cost.

 

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2 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

No you can't have an electric blanket, nice though they are! You won't need it and they carry too heavy a cost.

We have one. We use it to pre-warm the bed in winter and, once in, a decent duvet means all night use is unnecessary. No issues at all, but then we cruise most days if not every day when we're out and about in winter so the batteries are recharged. Having said that, it was also a blessing when we spent 10 days iced in (outside a pub - good planning is essential) a couple of winters ago.

Our solid fuel stove is at the front of out 57' boat and the bedroom is at the back. Ours stays in 24/7 when winter cruising and does make a difference when the bedroom door is left open.  A central stove would surely do a better job, but if you only look at boats with central stoves the pool gets quite small. I'd say a stove is essential, central placing desirable.

The control for our Eberspacher central heating controller is by the bed, so we can give that a while to warm up the boat on a really cold morning before emerging to rejuvenate the stove but it's not often more than a luxury. It's used more for when we have those odd cold spring/autumn mornings when the stove isn't in use. Two sources of heat are also essential in my book and it's certainly a combination I'd recommend.

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On 2017-5-12 at 15:48, Tony Brooks said:

Now think about waking up on a dark cold drizzly winters morning knowing that to stay within CaRT's CC guide lines you must move that day. Likewise think about waking up with the boat frozen in and a toilet of any type than needs emptying and no water in the tank and you have run out of solid fuel for the stove.

Living on a narrowboat in winter is even bleaker "out on the cut" than in a marina where you do not have to move. Both are pretty dreary.

Its pretty dreary, anywhere,  if you just inside all day, I would go out for a walk/cycle to the pub every lunch time, to make best use of ALL their facilites, do a bit of socialising, read their paper, a plate of fries, a pint of beer, and back to the boat, wildlife and log spotting along the way.

Yep, quite excited about WINTER

When I was sailing, but not actually moving from place to place, I used to read, and mess about with bits of housework, then at 12.00 noon it was G&T, a light salad, and a sit out admiring the view, a bit of socialising, watch the racing/surfing/ and so on. Cabin Fever would set in, and then I'd plan the next day;s travel.

PS why can't I have an electric overblanket, honestly they are fantastic, and can also be used as a throw during the day, they are very robust, and can be washed. 

Edited by ladygardener
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On 2017-5-11 at 16:32, mross said:

Move in with your children while sorting out the transition.  Or pay a deposit on a boat while you sell the flat.  Do you expect the flat to sell for more than the boat's purchase price?

I have no relatives who are sufficiently tolerant tbh. There is no reason why I would find a boat immediately after selling, surely I have more time now for browsing than I will ever have. 

I do indeed expect to have enough to buy a boat: best case scenario is that I have more cash in hand after purchase, than the cost of the boat, in fact I thnk that would be something to aim for, allowing  5K as a first year contingency fund. I think I should have a maintenance fund which would be £500 pa min.

Edited by ladygardener
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7 minutes ago, ladygardener said:

PS why can't I have an electric overblanket, honestly they are fantastic, and can also be used as a throw during the day, they are very robust, and can be washed.

You can if you know how much electricity they use, and, how to replace that amount (+20%) in addition to all the other electric consumption.

You can have whatever you want (microwave, toaster, deep fat fryer. immersion heater, hair dryer, etc etc etc) but your boat must be equipped with methods of daily replacement of the usage .

 

Probably one of the biggest difficulties / questions asked on the forum is "I have bought new batteries but my lights still go dim at night - what can I do ?"

You need to become your own power-station - tied up in a marina is a no-brainer, you have your electricity 'on-tap' just like a house.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You can if you know how much electricity they use, and, how to replace that amount (+20%) in addition to all the other electric consumption.

You can have whatever you want (microwave, toaster, deep fat fryer. immersion heater, hair dryer, etc etc etc) but your boat must be equipped with methods of daily replacement of the usage .

 

Probably one of the biggest difficulties / questions asked on the forum is "I have bought new batteries but my lights still go dim at night - what can I do ?"

You need to become your own power-station - tied up in a marina is a no-brainer, you have your electricity 'on-tap' just like a house.

I am used to boat living, and now we have LED I can have good lighting without draining the batteries, I had an oil lamp which took the chill off te cabin, but a boat cabin is somewhat  smaller than the interior of a NB.

May I post links to boats I am considering?

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25 minutes ago, ladygardener said:

Its pretty dreary, anywhere,  if you just inside all day, I would go out for a walk/cycle to the pub every lunch time, to make best use of ALL their facilites, do a bit of socialising, read their paper, a plate of fries, a pint of beer, and back to the boat, wildlife and log spotting along the way.

Yep, quite excited about WINTER

When I was sailing, but not actually moving from place to place, I used to read, and mess about with bits of housework, then at 12.00 noon it was G&T, a light salad, and a sit out admiring the view, a bit of socialising, watch the racing/surfing/ and so on. Cabin Fever would set in, and then I'd plan the next day;s travel.

PS why can't I have an electric overblanket, honestly they are fantastic, and can also be used as a throw during the day, they are very robust, and can be washed. 

With your attitude you will be an awesome boater. You dont however need an electric blanket as you will not be in a cold house.

1 minute ago, ladygardener said:

I am used to boat living, and now we have LED I can have good lighting without draining the batteries, I had an oil lamp which took the chill off te cabin, but a boat cabin is somewhat  smaller than the interior of a NB.

May I post links to boats I am considering?

Ahh links to a boat.....yep and await the incoming :D

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