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LadyG

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9 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

Am I opening myself up to ridicule here as a newbie or can I, dare I ask

- Spray Foam Bilge?....what is that? :unsure:

He didn't limit himself to having only the sides and roof spray foamed, he had the baseplate done too. Only time will tell if it was a good or poor decision. As far as I'm aware it's unique. 

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1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

Thanks for that learned a lot there as well....have got a couple of slightly spongy bits in the flooring on the potential new boat so was wondering what I may find underneath. Thanks!

..sounds like the foam is not as I expected given it's firmness.

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4 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

sounds like the foam is not as I expected given it's firmness.

Spray foam is pretty solid if you spread the load. If you hit it with a hammer then you'd dent it. If you placed a length of wood to spread the load and hit it with a hammer it would do nothing. 

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32 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Spray foam is pretty solid if you spread the load. If you hit it with a hammer then you'd dent it. If you placed a length of wood to spread the load and hit it with a hammer it would do nothing. 

The professional stuff that is, as in the linked picture.

I suspect the diy stuff that comes in calor-style bottles is not quite so solid but that is just from looking at pictures of the results so may be wrong. It is not the same as the professional stuff which I believe is nitrogen propelled.

The stuff in cans is weaker still in my experience, probably because of the less efficient propellant system.

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8 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

The professional stuff that is, as in the linked picture.

I suspect the diy stuff that comes in calor-style bottles is not quite so solid but that is just from looking at pictures of the results so may be wrong. It is not the same as the professional stuff which I believe is nitrogen propelled.

The stuff in cans is weaker still in my experience, probably because of the less efficient propellant system.

Sounds pretty tough.

on another note - Pierre de tierre, pomme de Terre or ridicululier!

Reception, kitchen....blurrrgghhhhhh   :mellow:

https://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=510549

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12 hours ago, WotEver said:

That's a sweet theory. Wind, mistakes and inexperience unfortunately don't make it into reality. Have you seen the Tim & Pru series?

Take a trip down from Wardle Junction to Middlewich lock and meet a boat coming the other way

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13 hours ago, LadyG said:

I am going to see boats, no worries, but I've done plenty of offshore racing, and criss crossing at ten knots with a few feet to spare is fairly common. but  we tend to close hatches/windows/portholes when setting off.

Wow!! So that gives you experience of narrow boats and canal cruising?

I will suggest AGAIN that you hire a narrow boat for a week.

 

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23 hours ago, Athy said:

There is many a true word spoken in jest. 30 years ago, a large proportion of n/b's had louvred windows. In more recent years, hopper windows in which the top 25%(ish) opened inwards have become the industry standard. But more recently still I have noticed more and more n/b's fitted with square blank (i.e. non-opening) windows - for example, modern Black Prince hire boats have them. Why? They tend to look ugly and they don't ventilate the boat.

The whole window hinges from the bottom,  giving more ventilation than the hopper type. The glass can be removed completely for even more ventilation if required. Our boat has these and came with framed mesh inserts to replace the glass, so you can have loads of ventilation without flies getting in. Great design except for the designer ignoring safe storage facilities for the removed panes glass. :(

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5 minutes ago, cuthound said:

The whole window hinges from the bottom,  giving more ventilation than the hopper type. The glass can be removed completely for even more ventilation if required. Our boat has these and came with framed mesh inserts to replace the glass, so you can have loads of ventilation without flies getting in. Great design except for the designer ignoring safe storage facilities for the removed panes glass. :(

Ah, as I suspected they might, thanks for the info.

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23 hours ago, LadyG said:

I think you are over reacting, I won't be charging up the waterways at full tilt, I will probably get some training, but really will be taking things easy. I will use common sense. 

Hunderds of folks hire boats every year with absolutely no background, its not rocket science.

I've done lots of boathandling, small and large, canoeing, surfboards, coracle, RIBs , speedboats, dingies, rowing, sculling, sea, ocean, inshore, offshore, lakes and rivers, really can't imagine this is going to be too difficult. 

and the Crinain canal, numerous times

You are right up to a point, if you are au fait with boats and boating then it shouldn't be too difficult to get the hang of a narrowboat.  But, and I'm surprised someone else hasn't pointed this out, the problem with handling these things is that as soon as you become confident, just when you reckon you've really got the hang of it,  the next day day the boat goes and does it's own thing and makes you look like a complete novice.  Which is one reason why Timothy West even after 40 years is still crashing into things.

I'm occasionally asked have you ever lost anything in the canal and I reply yes, my dignity, many times.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Neil2 said:

You are right up to a point, if you are au fait with boats and boating then it shouldn't be too difficult to get the hang of a narrowboat.  But, and I'm surprised someone else hasn't pointed this out, the problem with handling these things is that as soon as you become confident, just when you reckon you've really got the hang of it,  the next day day the boat goes and does it's own thing and makes you look like a complete novice.  Which is one reason why Timothy West even after 40 years is still crashing into things.

I'm occasionally asked have you ever lost anything in the canal and I reply yes, my dignity, many times.

 

 

:D:D what better place to lose it.

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with trepidation, i return:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/44ft-Trad-Stern-Narrowboat-/232321958113?  its  44ft, 1985 built by Braunston Canal Services £29950

and

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182572599817?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

50 ft, Calcutt Boats 2005 £32,500

 

I know that the second owner is keen to sell, hence reduced price, but is there something else i have missed?

Edited by LadyG
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From a fairly quick look, the second one appeals to me more and it looks more suitable for living on - washing machine etc. The first

 one, I reckon the beds would get wet and these front seats would probably be most uncomfortable to sit on as the seat and back are at right angles.  Shared a boat with seats like that for many years and I used to take a folding chair to sit on

haggis

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3 minutes ago, haggis said:

From a fairly quick look, the second one appeals to me more and it looks more suitable for living on - washing machine etc. The first

 one, I reckon the beds would get wet and these front seats would probably be most uncomfortable to sit on as the seat and back are at right angles.  Shared a boat with seats like that for many years and I used to take a folding chair to sit on

haggis

Yep, totally agree, now that you point out the saloon seating AND bed-wetting, its struck off the list. 

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41 minutes ago, AllanC said:

The second one looks quite nice. It has an open plan galley/saloon which possibly feels more spacious, but it is a cruiser stern. This may make routine engine maintenance a little more awkward.

 

Engine maintenance is even more awkward in a trad style boat I'd say. Unless built with a proper engine room. 

A separate engine room is essential for a liveaboard in my opinion.  

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35 minutes ago, AllanC said:

 it is a cruiser stern. This may make routine engine maintenance a little more awkward.

I don't quite "get" this. There's usually more space to work on the engine in a cruiser stern than in a modern trad where the engine can be tucked into a cramped compartment under the stairs! Isn't there?

This looks like a no-contest: the first boat is over 30 years old, shorter, yet almost the same price. I think the second one is a Calcutt "Clipper" class, these were (and still are) sound, no-frills boats (they were probably the last ones to be offered fully fitted for under £1,000 per foot) but the owners have obviously upgraded the interior considerably with plenty of human comforts (stove + central heating is good, for example). The engine is probably a British Leyland light van unit built under licence in Turkey; Calcutt (who are a Midlands marina and hire-fleet operator) are specialists in these engines, so spares and repairs should not be a problem.

One caveat: the marina where this is offered for sale has had some bad press in the past, though I have no idea what they're like now.

 

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4 minutes ago, Athy said:

I don't quite "get" this. There's usually more space to work on the engine in a cruiser stern than in a modern trad where the engine can be tucked into a cramped compartment under the stairs! Isn't there?

This looks like a no-contest: the first boat is over 30 years old, shorter, yet almost the same price. I think the second one is a Calcutt "Clipper" class, these were (and still are) sound, no-frills boats (they were probably the last ones to be offered fully fitted for under £1,000 per foot) but the owners have obviously upgraded the interior considerably with plenty of human comforts (stove + central heating is good, for example). The engine is probably a British Leyland light van unit built under licence in Turkey; Calcutt (who are a Midlands marina and hire-fleet operator) are specialists in these engines, so spares and repairs should not be a problem.

One caveat: the marina where this is offered for sale has had some bad press in the past, though I have no idea what they're like now.

 

 

Lots of good sense written here by that nice Mr Athy.

His last comment is masterful understatement though. Pillings Lock are the bunch who shafted CRT for a six figure sum recently. Ethical business practice is not something they subscribe to, so beware. 

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2 hours ago, haggis said:

From a fairly quick look, the second one appeals to me more and it looks more suitable for living on - washing machine etc.

It even has a proper toilet ;)

I quite like that boat, especially at that price. 

I wonder why solar panels were fitted but not wired in...?

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57 minutes ago, Athy said:

I don't quite "get" this. There's usually more space to work on the engine in a cruiser stern than in a modern trad where the engine can be tucked into a cramped compartment under the stairs! Isn't there?

This looks like a no-contest: the first boat is over 30 years old, shorter, yet almost the same price. I think the second one is a Calcutt "Clipper" class, these were (and still are) sound, no-frills boats (they were probably the last ones to be offered fully fitted for under £1,000 per foot) but the owners have obviously upgraded the interior considerably with plenty of human comforts (stove + central heating is good, for example). The engine is probably a British Leyland light van unit built under licence in Turkey; Calcutt (who are a Midlands marina and hire-fleet operator) are specialists in these engines, so spares and repairs should not be a problem.

One caveat: the marina where this is offered for sale has had some bad press in the past, though I have no idea what they're like now.

 

This 'awkward' comment is no doubt due to my own lack of understanding of the differences between Trads and cruisers. I naturally assumed that having the engine under the rear deck would have made it harder to get at. I haven't looked at many boats in the flesh and just thought trad engines would be more accessible. I stand corrected.

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13 minutes ago, AllanC said:

This 'awkward' comment is no doubt due to my own lack of understanding of the differences between Trads and cruisers. I naturally assumed that having the engine under the rear deck would have made it harder to get at. I haven't looked at many boats in the flesh and just thought trad engines would be more accessible. I stand corrected.

Fair enough.

Set-ups vary of course, but many cruiser-stern boats have a blooming enormous space in which the engine lurks. I had a little 26-foot Springer whose engine compartment had room for several paint cans,  a box of paintbrushes, a pile of paving slabs, a spare battery and assorted lengths of wood as well as the mini-digger power unit. In addition, the whole rear deck could be removed (in, from memory, four sections) so you were standing in a great big open-plan 'ole.

Trad engines in their own engine room are very easily accessible - they sit above floor level and you can usually get at them from all sides. MtB and I, and many others on the forum, have this type of installation. But modern trads can have their engines shoehorned into the tightest and most inconvenient of spaces: make sure that the fitter who comes to service them is double-jointed and no taller than 5'3".

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