Advice needed (not a narrow boat)

[Calranthe]

Hello,

Tomorrow I am off to Sawley Marina to look at some boats, I have a small budget (bottom of the barrel) which ever one I end up with will spend most of its life on the Trent and Mersey canal Moored some where near to Stoke. This will be a boat to learn on and take my wife on short holidays. £4000 is our limit for the actual boat (we have more to spend on mooring/insurance/river license/fuel and maintenance).

The boat we both really like is this

https://bwml.co.uk/brokerage/sm-9359-kathleen/ but will be looking at all of the less than £4000 boats they have, if the engine, electrics  and hull are in okay condition (it just passed its BSS) I can deal with anything else.

Any advice would be great and what are peoples opinions on getting a £4000 boat pre purchase surveyed (also recommendation of a good surveyor around sawley) as I understand it would be at least £500 and part of me thinks on a £4000 purchase that £500 could go a long way towards fixing something.

Thank you for reading.

 

[MtB]

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with your thinking. Shelling out £500 surveying a £4k boat seems a waste of money. Even the most disastrous mistake seems unlikely to sink for a lot of years during which you'll be able to squeeze a LOT of lovely boating out of it.

My main concern is your comment about mooring it on the T&M near Stoke. Do you mean a formal 'paid for' 'home mooring' or are you planning to leave it on the general towpath? If the latter do you appreciate you'll need to move it every two weeks or more frequently, and cover a regular range of 20 miles or so to comply with the terms of your licence?

(Cue a string of posts saying CRT have no right to enforce this. Try it and see.) 

[zenataomm]

I think you've spotted the best of the bunch for that price.

No I wouldn't bother with a survey, so long as nothing looks horrendously unsafe.

Try a cheeky offer -£500

 

[bizzard]

Bit overpowered for a 20ft GRP boat on a canal, but still.  Good tough cookers those old Super Calors, last forever, mines about 40 years old and still going strong. live aboard use too.

[Calranthe]

Thank you for the great replies, will be going for a proper mooring some where close, sort of a base of operations once we get a feel for it, I've read the service manual for the BMC 1500 motor and to me it looks like an engine if taken care of and serviced well could last forever plus it is such a basic engine nothing too complicated to go wrong.

Last forum I posted on I got accused of trying to get money out of them even though I was just explaining my reasoning and context so I was hesitant to tell my plans (until money was in place and fundraising was done which it ends this week), Wife is very ill not going to get better she loves to paint and take pictures, we both love walking the canals around stoke on trent, well I walk and she gets pushed around in her wheelchair and we both love boats, so when the Doctors admitted they couldn't do any more (incurable cancer been fighting it for 18 years medication keeps it away but side effects slowly destroy quality of life) I wanted to make her dream happen, Having pushed Paola 8 miles either way down the canal I know that is my limit and I am not getting any younger. (she can get up and walk around the house the wheelchair is just for outside use and folds down) will work out some kind of simple ramp or steps for her to get on the boat. One of the things I will check out today.

Yes we have no knowledge of boats but I am a fast learner although locks still seem a huge and scary thing I have watched all the youtube solo lock videos and I am in no rush will take my time.

Exploring the canals is the first part of the plan, get used to the boat no rush then one day venture on to the rivers and see where it takes us.

I agree that boat does seem perfect for what we are planning and as long as there are no huge warning flags especially since it passed the BSS 24th April this year it should be safe. While we are in a nice house now we spent 17 years in a very small bungalow with a tiny kitchen so the spending time in a small space like that is kind of cozy

Oh forgot to mention Paola will not be coming with me on this visit or until I trust the boat, I am an instinctive kind of person so will take the time getting to know the boat and if it all goes well the journey from sawley to stoke via the canal would give me ample time to work out any kinks sort of a trial by canal hehe

Edited May 10, 2017 by Calranthe

[mokjumbo]

Hi,PM sent.

[Neil Smith]

23 minutes ago, mokjumbo said:

Hi,PM sent.

He needs 5 posts before he can pm.

Neil

[Calranthe]

Thank you

Seems I can reply to PM's which is cool

[Alan de Enfield]

Can you stretch your budget just a little bit ?

 

This would be a far better bet and you would be surprisedat the difference beween 20 ft and a 27 ft boat.

It is (in my opinion) very underpriced and would be a superb buy as your first boat - you would need to make allowance for transport, either pay a skipper to 'drive' it, or get a 'man with a trailer' to tow it for you.

 

[Mac of Cygnet]

Welcome to the forum.  I hope the plans you have for the boat work out and give your wife and yourself much enjoyment. I don't know what the PM you got was about, but in the circumstances I'm sure that any forum member who knows about GRP boats and is near Sawley would be willing to give it the once-over and perhaps help you on your way.  I'm curious though about which forum gave you a hostile response.

Best wishes

Mac

[Sea Dog]

See Alan de Enfield's post above.  I was about to suggest the same thing and, if you read that thread, you'll see my unsolicited comments on my impressions of the boat from sale.  I have no connection with the seller.

[Rickent]

I am with Alan on this one. Maybe the money you have put aside for a survey could be added to your budget to buy the Norman 27, it looks a massively better boat.

[Calranthe]

I do not really want to put the forum name here, was some good people but a lot of the people  were in the Bentley and Porsche price bracket and very suspicious of anyone new, I even got called a nigerian scammer lol, water under the bridge now. (I had no idea people were well off I just went there for advice and explained my wife's situation so that the advice I received was in context some good advice was given, my original plan was a coastal cruiser, so its not like I am against good advice).

PM was awesome, an old owner of Kathleen  which had a different name back then :).

£4000 really is the hard limit we have set for ourselves, that leaves enough to cover other expenses and a comfortable yearly budget.

May as well put the budget here and let people pick it apart after all you have experience, I am here to learn.

£4000 for the boat

£600 for license (full year payment and early payment bonus if available)

£150 per month moorings

£300 per month fuel (including calor, this seems an over estimation but better to be on the safe side)

£150 per year insurance

£500 essentials, like life jackets and making sure safety equipment is up to speed

£800 maintenance on boat (I judged this on 20% of the boat cost)

£6500 total.

Just now, Rickent said:

I am with Alan on this one. Maybe the money you have put aside for a survey could be added to your budget to buy the Norman 27, it looks a massively better boat.

Let me have a good look at it and message the owner. Thank you.

[8 Hairy Feet]

The forum members here are helpful and knowledgeable,

I'm sure you will find you're in the right place.

I do hope you and Paola have some boating fun, it

sounds as though you intend to!

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by 8 Hairy Feet
spelling

[Alan de Enfield]

Your lifejackets will be around £60 each. any other safety equipment would be covered in the BSS (Fire blankets, extinguishers etc)

If you are staying n the T&M you will not need an anchor.

 

Fuel - massive over budget.

A 13kg gas bottle will probably last 'months' (obviously depends if you have gas cental heating etc) at a cost of £30

You will  -use approx. 1.5 litres (just over £1) per hour of engine running - in reality fo a 'leisure' boat I'd say that £100 a month is much more realistic

 

Moorings is 'about right' typically £145 per metre per annum

 

Maintenance is high - with a GRP boat you are not painting it every couple of years - pretty much the only costs will be oil change & belts every 200 hours (or so) say £30 a time

[Calranthe]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Your lifejackets will be around £60 each. any other safety equipment would be covered in the BSS (Fire blankets, extinguishers etc)

If you are staying n the T&M you will not need an anchor.

 

Fuel - massive over budget.

A 13kg gas bottle will probably last 'months' (obviously depends if you have gas cental heating etc) at a cost of £30

You will  -use approx. 1.5 litres (just over £1) per hour of engine running - in reality fo a 'leisure' boat I'd say that £100 a month is much more realistic

 

Moorings is 'about right' typically £145 per metre per annum

 

Maintenance is high - with a GRP boat you are not painting it every couple of years - pretty much the only costs will be oil change & belts every 200 hours (or so) say £30 a time

Life jackets should arrive today I went for Hammar Hydrostatic 'Iso Security' 165N Automatic Life jacket probably overkill.

Looks like we will have some funds to spare whcih is why I always try to over estimate when budgeting, this should be a lot of fun.

The only issues I see with the 27 Norman which you are right looks amazing, it is a lot further from where we are, which can be solved but the Kathleen is just on the start of the TMC.

Thank you.

[Chewbacka]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Your lifejackets will be around £60 each. any other safety equipment would be covered in the BSS (Fire blankets, extinguishers etc)

If you are staying n the T&M you will not need an anchor.

 

Fuel - massive over budget.

A 13kg gas bottle will probably last 'months' (obviously depends if you have gas cental heating etc) at a cost of £30

You will  -use approx. 1.5 litres (just over £1) per hour of engine running - in reality fo a 'leisure' boat I'd say that £100 a month is much more realistic

 

Moorings is 'about right' typically £145 per metre per annum

Maintenance is high - with a GRP boat you are not painting it every couple of years - pretty much the only costs will be oil change & belts every 200 hours (or so) say £30 a time

Agree with the above, except I would leave maintenance high for the first year (say £600) for  any unexpected failures, and then keep a contingency fund of a few hundred pounds for future years.  You will have unexpected failures - water pump, toilet etc

[Mac of Cygnet]

I agree with Alan that your estimates are on the high side. The licence with prompt payment is £503.  I don't know what moorings near Stoke run at, but I pay £150 per quarter in Yorkshire for a 27 ft boat..  Other items I have paid nowhere near what you estimate until last year, when quite a bit was needed.  So perhaps you have a bit more to play with!

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

The only issues I see with the 27 Norman which you are right looks amazing, it is a lot further from where we are, which can be solved but the Kathleen is just on the start of the TMC.

Yes - but it will be a simple 'on a trailer' move (unlike a steel narrowboat, which normally involves cranes and big trucks) try this guy :

http://www.tonytugboats.com/

 

Its only a 'mornings work' and I'd be surprised if it came in above £300.

Depends on availability of 'ramps'.

[Calranthe]

Have pm'd them would like to chat about it.

[rusty69]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Depends on availability of 'ramps'.

The boat at Willy Watts could probably be slipped at Blackthorn, just up river, both run by Clive(nice chap) 

[Sea Dog]

Right boat, wrong place - easy fix. Wrong boat, right place - not so much. There may be a right boat close to you, of course, but bear that in mind.

[magictime]

Yes, some of those estimates look very high, including the fuel and the mooring. I don't think you need to worry about stretching the budget by £500 if you had to (which you might not - £4000 would hardly be a silly offer on a boat advertised at £4500).

Edited May 10, 2017 by magictime

[magictime]

Just looked at that 27-footer and for an extra £500 it seems like a no-brainer. And I doubt you'd lose money on it when you came to resell.

[Chris Davidson]

Hey, what ever the outcome with your search for a boat, I sincerely wish you all the best, and hope you find the right boat for yourselves.

As you know only too well, life is short so make the most it.

I'm sure you will enjoy it.

Good luck with your viewings.