Advice needed (not a narrow boat)

[Calranthe]

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

With all due respect, the money that this little list of jobs will cost you would probably have been better off spent buying a bigger and better specced boat in the first instance. 

It all will depend on the boat, if we spend time with Kathleen and fall in love with her (may be to late for me already) and she can with work do all we need of her then it may sound crazy but why not spend money on her after all we are not looking for resale value or an investment but a home, on the other hand if we find it impractical and a 20ft can not do all we need to then kathleen becomes our learning boat and we look for something a little bigger, your Sealine S23 is very nice  

[Naughty Cal]

5 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

It all will depend on the boat, if we spend time with Kathleen and fall in love with her (may be to late for me already) and she can with work do all we need of her then it may sound crazy but why not spend money on her after all we are not looking for resale value or an investment but a home, on the other hand if we find it impractical and a 20ft can not do all we need to then kathleen becomes our learning boat and we look for something a little bigger, your Sealine S23 is very nice  

It is the same with our boat. The cost of a well specced S23 is no more than a basic one. But the cost of adding stuff like heating, holding tanks and new hoods soon adds up to a fair old chunk of the boats value.

Resale may not be a consideration at this time but it will be eventually.  Don t throw money at the boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

At home we use a Berkey, it has a filter that lasts 23,000 liters and can even handle canal/stagnant water pretty amazing, yes that was our thought exactly Alan

I do not know the 'Berkey' - you need something with "1 micron absolute" filtration to ensure all the bacteria are removed - particularly as the Leptospira bacteria is quite widely found in Canals, and is the cause of Weil's Disease (the disease that killed the Olympic Gold medal rower Andy Holmes)

Weil’s disease is a form of a bacterial infection also known as Leptospirosis that is carried by animals, most commonly in rats and cattle.  It can be caught by humans through contact with rat or cattle urine, most commonly occurring through contaminated fresh water.  Although human infection in the UK is minimal it is still worth taking some preventative measures to decrease the possibility of contracting it.

As you are probably aware rats & cows are very active in the canals.

 

You can contract Weil's just by not washing your hands after handling a rope that has fallen in to the canal.

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[Calranthe]

Just now, Naughty Cal said:

It is the same with our boat. The cost of a well specced S23 is no more than a basic one. But the cost of adding stuff like heating, holding tanks and new hoods soon adds up to a fair old chunk of the boats value.

Resale may not be a consideration at this time but it will be eventually.  Don t throw money at the boat.

You are right, it will depend on what happens I am not blind to the options, it is in the future it is what our end goal is but how we get from here to there no concrete rules so we adapt :), the biggest limitation on a boat of any kind is a way to get Paola onboard some boats have very good access others not so much, ramps can be built modifications made its a learning experience.

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I do not know the 'Berkey' - you need something with "1 micron absolute" filtration to ensure all the bacteria are removed - particularly as the Leptospira bacteria is quite widely found in Canals, and is the cause of Weil's Disease (the disease that killed the Olympic Gold medal rower Andy Holmes)

Weil’s disease is a form of a bacterial infection also known as Leptospirosis that is carried by animals, most commonly in rats and cattle.  It can be caught by humans through contact with rat or cattle urine, most commonly occurring through contaminated fresh water.  Although human infection in the UK is minimal it is still worth taking some preventative measures to decrease the possibility of contracting it.

As you are probably aware rats & cows are very active in the canals.

 

Berkey Filters removes Chlorine, Viruses, Heavy Metals,  Harmful pathogenic Bacteria, Cysts, Parasites and hazardous chemical contaminants and impurities. they come top of the charts in independent tests.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

Berkey Filters removes Chlorine, Viruses, Heavy Metals,  Harmful pathogenic Bacteria, Cysts, Parasites and hazardous chemical contaminants and impurities. they come top of the charts in independent tests.

Just done a Google - these certainly do the job. A bit big for your BoB tho'.

[Calranthe]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just done a Google - these certainly do the job. A bit big for your BoB tho'.

Yes for home use great but but on a boat the one you mentioned is far better for portability.

[Calranthe]

It really has been a comedy of errors to do with getting the boat fixed.

Mark went to retrieve the fuel system at the weekend and promptly had a crash in his car, had to wait for a curtesy car and thus Mark retrieved the newly reconditioned fuel system on monday and was going to fit Monday night but found himself zonked out on painkillers due to back issue aggravated by the car boom, today he is feeling better and tomorrow goes for physio and then all being fine Thursday he will fit and get the boat running.

Now if all is well depending on how it goes I may or may not be bringing the boat up this weekend solo (Peter is busy) and it may be good for me to do it myself (given that I already did multiple double locks and most of the TMC locks from that point on are single.

More likely is that it will take the weekend to sort the boat and we do it next week.

 

[Calranthe]

A very surprising turn of events last night, (boat is being worked on today) Paola decided she wants to come with me, quite insistent about it actually, if she can get on the boat (Trevor will drive us down and with me on the boat and him on the jetty we should be able to get her on, in her words "I will just stay on until we get to Aston then Trevor can help get me off".

The biggest plus to this is I do not need to keep to my "being away from Paola a maximum of 3 days", Trevor is looking after our dogs.

 

[jocave]

Excellent news, hope the refurbished parts do the trick and you have a smooth and safe trip to Aston..

[Chris Davidson]

Good luck with your journey up to Aston.

Hope your boat is finished on time, and the weather is kind to you.

[Calranthe]

Thank you, we have decided to not set an amount of time for the adventure, if it all works out we will go some time this weekend and take our time, so much to see on the TMC, the only reason we were going to be pushing it was to get home to Paola :).

Taking enough food and water for 4-5 days and if need be I can just grab something from one of the pubs or shops that are on the canal.

[LadyG]

I just think you should try to enjoy your life rather than making it an obstacle course.

Even if things go well, boats cost money, an unpredictable amount of money, houses are predictable, benefits are predictable.

Fair enough if you are genuinly self sufficient, but are you just kidding yourself, you don't own a farm, and you have probably never worked a croft in an isolated location. The St Kilda islanders finally capituated, their life was too harsh to be bearable.

It seems that you want to climb every mountain, when you could have a better life just going with the flow.

PS I dont agree with all that prepping or whatever, to me that is selfish, and unrealistic. These nutters in America learning to fire automatics at aliens,  its just all extremely unrealistic. It is much more likely you will have a normal life than be the only survivor of a nuclear attack.

... in The Cobbler of Preston by Christopher Bullock (1716)

‘Tis impossible to be sure of any thing but Death and Taxes,”

If you started off thinking about a boat to live on, it would be better to buy something more suitable.

As a single person, I have lived on a thirty foot sailing boat,, but no way could two people have lived on it comfortably. I would think a small Springer might work, there is at least room to swing a cat.

Edited July 6, 2017 by LadyG
more nagging

[Alan de Enfield]

48 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I dont agree with all that prepping or whatever, to me that is selfish, and unrealistic. These nutters in America learning to fire automatics at aliens

Another one mis-informed by the gutter press.

Do you have insurance ? Just in case you have an accident ? that is preparation

Do you buy more than one days food at the supermarket - you are preparing  for the future.

Do you plan your holidays and pay in advance ? That is preparation.

 

Recent figures show that 30% of the working population could not survive more than a month without a pay-check before getting into serious debt problems. Do you have money in the bank for 'a rainy day' ? That is being prepared.

Being a 'prepper' is not all about shooting zombies, or waiting for the nuclear bomb to go off, it is planning (& being prepared) to meet the future.

 

[LadyG]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Another one mis-informed by the gutter press.

Do you have insurance ? Just in case you have an accident ? that is preparation

Do you buy more than one days food at the supermarket - you are preparing  for the future.

Do you plan your holidays and pay in advance ? That is preparation.

 

Recent figures show that 30% of the working population could not survive more than a month without a pay-check before getting into serious debt problems. Do you have money in the bank for 'a rainy day' ? That is being prepared.

Being a 'prepper' is not all about shooting zombies, or waiting for the nuclear bomb to go off, it is planning (& being prepared) to meet the future.

 

I don't read the gutter press, I live in the real world. 

Special toilet paper is low on my shopping list, but I have "lived off the land", that is to say, a few weeks off work to work a croft. We did not have toilet paper, we used other things, the loo was over a stream, it wa no hardship as it was summer, and we could buy groceries and butcher meat with our cash.

I have lived in some pretty tough circmustances, but only when young and fit. 

It is much cheaper to drink tap water than anything else, talk of micro filtration is as daft as living vegan in order to change the world.

Its just not possible to live without money.

Edited July 6, 2017 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I would think that special toilet paper is low on my shopping list, but I have "lived off the land", that is to say, a fewweeks off work to work a croft.

Its just not possible to live without money.

Nope - youv'e lost me there I'm afraid.

If the forecast is for rain - do you take an umbrella with you ? That is preparation.

[LadyG]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Nope - youv'e lost me there I'm afraid.

If the forecast is for rain - do you take an umbrella with you ? That is preparation.

I don't own an umbrella.

I know it will rain sooner or later, and if I check the barometer, I could work it out, scientifically.

I dont think I am going to experience a holocaust, its just not very likely. For the same reason I do not have full medical insurance, my money is better spent on living today than imagining the worse case scenrio.

I dont stay in the house for fear of being knocked down by a bus either.

Edited July 6, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Nope - youv'e lost me there I'm afraid.

If the forecast is for rain - do you take an umbrella with you ? That is preparation.

I am not sure that you understand what these "preppars" are.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am not sure that you understand what these "preppars" are.

I bet he does. I reckon Alan has a stash of beans and lentils on his various boats 

[LadyG]

On 04/07/2017 at 09:24, Calranthe said:

You all bring up some good points and that is what I was hoping for.

Showering and laundry, I should point out that both myself and wife are or were survivalists/preppers we spent a lot of time in our past preparing for the "what if" scenarios supplies and training accordingly, the interesting thing is this set us up very well for a boat, a lot of items you gather for end of the world type events work really well for camping and boating for example solar showers and bio degradable toilet wipes, a compost toilet in the house, Showering and laundry some people will find this horrible but we only shower and I only shave once a week, we let our bodies look after themselves allow the good/bad bacteria balance on our skins keep everything in check and our laundry machine only goes on once every 7 days (soap nuts no artificial detergent), I have been drying/collecting wood for years and often cook all the days meals outside using either a solo stove, a biolite stove or the fire pit both in summer and winter I once did a family roast/full days meals midwinter with a mix of snow and rain to keep me company, as long as we could get to a CRT shower and a laundry once a week things would be cool.

Our Mifi setup (backup internet for the home) can with a switch of wifi run everything in the house.

With our knowledge and use of cheap thermal blankets (the thermal foil kind) I know for about £20 and a little crafting/duct tape knowledge could make the cabin of a 20ft retain a lot of heat and with the bonus of removing them in mild weather and or reversing them to keep out the heat in hot weather.

 

 

yes, but why would you want to be so uncomfortable?

9 hours ago, rusty69 said:

I bet he does. I reckon Alan has a stash of beans and lentils on his various boats 

Beans and lentils, I hope he can capture the methane!

I have three , yes three tins of baked beans, and two can openers, only one of which will open the beans, that does not make me a prepper, a prepper would have three tons of food and water, plenty of fuel, and lots of ex army kit.

A tent or two. mattresses, fire, foil, and flashlights, candles, oil, lamps, matches. flints, a compass, etc etc.

 

..... and a composting toilet in a house with mains sewerage

................ etc

Edited July 7, 2017 by LadyG
and a composting toilet in a house with mains sewerage

[Calranthe]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am not sure that you understand what these "preppars" are.

 

  Neither do you, I now understand why you are viewed with such disdain by certain people here, you are poison and a very sad person, I was going to explain what prepping is really about and how it benefits you and friends but I am sadly going to take the same view from now on as most people do with you LadyG and ignore you, please leave this thread.

 

 

[Northernboater]

  I think LadyG is being realistic and I think you have a lot to learn, I don.t know if your looking at this as a big adventure or are you going to be living on the boat in the near future your giving off mixed vibes as your saying you'll to be covering everything in baco-foil to insulate and you've rought'it in the back garden and you very rarely leave the house? Reality is your going to be on a 20ft plastic boat with no heating for what I see, wait till the rain starts and the winter kicks in, you'll need a bit more foil then the average Christmas Turkey uses. What heating are you going to use? You said your partner Paolo is disabled and you and your friend will get her on the boat somehow, this does not fill me with confidence that it will all end happily, you also said it has been a comedy of errors from the start and you haven't even set off on the canals yet, I think probably like LadyG thinks too it will continue to be a comedy of errors and an expensive one for the foreseeable future until you get your head out of the clouds and reality sinks in.  

[Calranthe]

1 hour ago, Northernboater said:

  I think LadyG is being realistic and I think you have a lot to learn, I don.t know if your looking at this as a big adventure or are you going to be living on the boat in the near future your giving off mixed vibes as your saying you'll to be covering everything in baco-foil to insulate and you've rought'it in the back garden and you very rarely leave the house? Reality is your going to be on a 20ft plastic boat with no heating for what I see, wait till the rain starts and the winter kicks in, you'll need a bit more foil then the average Christmas Turkey uses. What heating are you going to use? You said your partner Paolo is disabled and you and your friend will get her on the boat somehow, this does not fill me with confidence that it will all end happily, you also said it has been a comedy of errors from the start and you haven't even set off on the canals yet, I think probably like LadyG thinks too it will continue to be a comedy of errors and an expensive one for the foreseeable future until you get your head out of the clouds and reality sinks in.  

I thought you may have learnt your lesson when I took apart you post last time explaining the many mistakes you made.

I never mentioned baco-foil please if you are going to pick apart my posts and take them out of context at least make some kind of effort if you knew anything about the type of foil used in  emergency blankets they can be very easily used to help a small area retain heat so let me explain

Emergency foil blankets otherwise known as Mylar blankets, Space blanket used by NASA due to its amazing ability to control temperature ranges I think the effective range is something like -260c to 480c Usually a composite plastic  with a metalic compound of different types this is why some are gold others silver, the really amazing fact about these mylar blankets is 97% heat retention or reflection.

Now you would in no way cover or line a cabin in a 20ft boat because and this may be hard for you to understand but based on the laws of thermodynamic's a retention of 97% of radiant heat would create quite an uncomfortable environment.

What I would do is what a lot of people in camper vans do, a fitted mylar panel on the inside of the window on card, black on one side mylar (you can get a company to make them once you give the measurements), windows which are one of the greatest egress of heat especially non double glazed it would not heat the cabin but allow the cabin to retain heat generated 20-40%. (very cheap but effective) pair that with a fitted eberspacher (spelling) D2 I think it is the smallest 1.9kw version (about 800 fitted) and using the thermostatic system to keep the temp comfortable, balancing retaining heat with generating heat.

I know some Narrow boaters who never get the balance correct and thus the effect of "middle of winter all windows open and like a sauna inside"

I also stated in that same post that this was a long term goal and only IF the 20ft could full fill all our needs would we go down that path in a 20ft, if you recall I also in my semi hypothetical post (stated it was extreme long term goal) asking if others had done it. 

Now Mr Northernboater if you had taken one second to read the posts you would know the comedy of errors was just a way of describing the engine issues nothing more.

LadyG has a lot of opinions but I have seen very little substance I can see why you would agree with her.

As for my wife's disability being disabled does not in any way stop you doing what you want.

We will take care, we will learn and we will succeed, I have looked after my wife for almost 20 years of illness and I am amazingly proud at how she fights and beats what would have most people in a ball on the floor crying, if she says she wants to get on that boat and then both myself and my mums partner will make it happen and make it happen safely, nothing I have ever done puts my wife in danger and all care and attention will be taken.

Please if you are going to reply to any more of my posts do me the curtesy of not making yourself look like a numpty.

Let me point something out that I honestly hope you never have to deal with, when the person you love most in the world is dying, when you have fought an illness for almost 20 years and the doctors can no longer do anything, when the best you can hope for is that the medication keeping an acute cancer away (if it came back she would be dead in 3-6 months) does not completely destroy her kidney's (they are at 35-45 a normal person is 60-90 I think and kidney failure is 16 she can never have a kidney transplant due to the medication keeping the cancer away), when there is still a 70% chance of secondary cancers due to the multiple full body irradiation she went through you take a different approach to life.

You can't wait for a nice day

You can't wait to feel 100%

And you never let anything get in the way of doing everything you can today because tomorrow may never come.

You have no idea what a walk down the canal or to a local park means to a person in that situation and you know what it would be amazing to wait for the stars to align and everything to be perfect, to have the money for a 50k with motorised ramp it just does not happen.

My wife is my hero she is in pain, dizzy, sick, weak from the moment she wakes to the moment she sleeps if she can sleep, does she sit around waiting for it to end or wishing for it to end ? No she fights every damn day, she crafts even when her fingers cramp (she has premature arthritis since 22), she goes to the park, she uses her computer, she does everything she wants to.

It is funny when you see people staying in with a sniffle and my wife wanting to go on a 8 mile explore of the canal paths in the rain, don't you dare tell me what is possible because all of the doctors we saw when Paola got ill expected her to be dead in a year. You think the challenges of getting on a boat are going to stop her and you think I will do anything less than everything in my power to safely make it happen within our means.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Calranthe

[Northernboater]

  You can tell you spend most of your life in the house and obviously not met many boaters, as for numpty I'm not the one who bought a boat without a survey with an engine leaking fuel everywhere. I'd rather be a narrowboater comfy in the winter with the fire on and the doors open then on  little GPR with the Windows covered up trying to keep warm. What's you principle source oh heating on the boat? 

  You make a big thing about your wife's problems and to tell you the truth I'm not interested.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Northernboater

[Calranthe]

11 minutes ago, Northernboater said:

  You can tell you spend most of your life in the house and obviously not met many boaters, as for numpty I'm not the one who bought a boat without a survey with an engine leaking fuel everywhere. I'd rather be a narrowboater comfy in the winter with the fire on and the doors open then on  little GPR with the Windows covered up trying to keep warm. What's you principle source oh heating on the boat? 

Seriously you did not even read my post again, see at the moment I do not know if you have noticed but it is quite warm outside, I have stated multiple times that heating when heating is needed will happen £800 we were quoted for a new eberspacher diesel warm air heater and we can budget for that IF kathleen turns out to be big enough and IF take it in that direction IF it is not big enough then we will wait, use Kathleen as our learning boat and get together the funds for a 23-27ft boat.

The boat cost 3300 a survey would have cost 500, fixing the engine problems cost 480, you do the math. 

oh and BTW it was on this very forum on this thread that I asked what people thought about not having a survey on the boat and instead using that money to fix problems that came up, guess what advice was given by quite knowledgeable boaters. (accuracy accuracy once again see  "most of your life in the house" I am 47, I spent 20 years looking after Paola up to now that still means I did a lot with my life before then).

Edited July 6, 2017 by Calranthe

[Northernboater]

2 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

Seriously you did not even read my post again, see at the moment I do not know if you have noticed but it is quite warm outside, I have stated multiple times that heating when heating is needed will happen £800 we were quoted for a new eberspacher diesel warm air heater and we can budget for that IF kathleen turns out to be big enough and IF take it in that direction.

The boat cost 3300 a survey would have cost 500, fixing the engine problems cost 480, you do the math. 

That's because the thread has gone on and on unlike your boat, as you say a comedy of errors, just waiting for the next episode once you finally get the engine to work.