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Advice needed (not a narrow boat)


Calranthe

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Even so, about the only direction a narrowboat ever moves at the 4mph used for this calculation is farwards, and human frames rarely get used to bring a narrowboat to a halt from 4mph. In addition, if you ever see a boat doing anything like 4mph hitting an obstruction it is usually a glancing strike rather than a square-on on collision.

More likely to get an arm or leg trapped between a boat nearly stationary or moving sideways at perhaps 0.1 mph or less, in which case the force involved will be very little. Consider how a boat moving slowly can be brought to a halt by strapping with a line. The forces involved are probably in the singles of tonnes, or lines breaking would be commonplace. 

No argument with your logic - (Except I have seen NB being towed swing off line and hit - full on - a brick wall on a lock approach)

I was purely correcting Boat-Face maths that 72kN was in fact 7,200 tonnes and not 7.2 tonnes

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We watched one doing about 1.5 to 2MPH go straight ahead at Thrupp and not even attempt to turn under the bridge, He did much more damage to the concrete than I could do with a single blow from a 7lb sledge hammer. I wouldn't have wanted my foot in there

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9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Surely 72kN = 72,000N (Kilo = 1000)

In which case, taking 1kgf = 10N the force is 72000/10 ie 7,200 Tonnes (As stated by mr oss)

I don't think you are using a comma as a decimal point...

I agree 72kN=72000N. But 1 tonne force = 10000N. => 72kN=7.2tonne force

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12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Surely 72kN = 72,000N (Kilo = 1000)

In which case, taking 1kgf = 10N the force is 72000/10 ie 7,200 Tonnes (As stated by mr oss) kg  

Divide by 1000 to get tonnes

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3 hours ago, BoatyMacBoatface said:

I don't think you are using a comma as a decimal point...

I agree 72kN=72000N. But 1 tonne force = 10000N. => 72kN=7.2tonne force

 

37 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Divide by 1000 to get tonnes

Yup - I was wrong - got the zeros displaced.

Appreciate the correction

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Sorry for the lack of posts not much to show current situation is thus.

Boat is still at Sawley minus its fuel pump which is being reconditioned (this seemed to be the best option due to the leaks) due back this week, we were planning to redo the journey on Thursday but after a talk to the Engineer Mark that is a no go, he is not to concerned about the diesel leaks as in he has checked the whole engine replaced some washers and is confident that part once the fuel pump is back on and checked it should be good the bigger problem he feels is the loss of oil, (this isn't about money he has already been paid and says the 480 is all he will charge us and we have paid that already), He said that when he fixed the fuel line he checked the oil the day before we left and it was fine (my next door neighbor was with us on the boat before we left and he checked it also and it was fine). 6 miles up the TMC and CRC needed to put in 2.5 L of oil to get it above the minimum, that is what is concerning the Engineer.

As he says I could just sign off on this for Thursday but I need to find out why that loss happened before I send you out with my reputation on the line I will be the first one you rightly complain about if it dies on the canal, understandable because he is part of a large boat yard (not mentioning who) and does work for Sawley on a case by case basis.

What he wants to do is with my permission fit the fuel pump get it all working right then look for any oil issues and once happy (after the weekend) take the boat out with the broker on to the Trent and see what happens under load.

I agree with him on this, it is only another week and I know from multiple discussions with him this isn't about the money it is a point of professional pride, he does not want me going out with a boat he is not happy with.

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Sorry to mentions this again, but I very much doubt if the crank case breather has ever been checked and cleaned since the engines been in the boat, judging by access to it, which looks almost nill. It is below that blue heat exchanger, header tank where you top up with coolant. Unless that engine box side panel comes off or there is access opening in it the blue exhaust  heat exchanger header tank at least would have to come off to get to it. It is incorporated in one of the two valve cam follower side cover plates. If its blocked, oily fumes under pressure will escape and leak past crank shaft seals, dipstick tube, up into the valve cover ect and up past the pistons to be burnt off.

Also the fitting of an electric fuel lift pump is probably due to the nill access to the original mechanical lift pump which is also below that blue header tank and near the camshaft side plates. If this pump is disconnected but still in situ, it could be leaking the oil. If its been removed there should be a cover plate blanking off the fitting hole.

Edited by bizzard
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1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

I think you are very right to be concerned, as you seem to be using oil at the rate of about 1 Litre per hour, almost as fast as you are burning diesel............

That's another very good remark from our friend bizzard, something that's often completely forgotten, and even more if this breather pipe isn't easily accessible.

It's far from an easy- or nice job to do if the heat-exchanger has to come off, as long as no bolts snap off it will be a nice job for Mark the mechanic.

Don't leave with the boat until you're happy with it, and assured that it will give you good service, it's easier done now with this mechanic around than somewhere in the middle (or outskirts) of nowhere after you've broken down, if that would be because of a lack of oil, it will be very expensive to repair (complete engine overhaul).

Good luck,

 

Peter.

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11 hours ago, Eren said:

hi, do I need river and canal licence or just river licence is enough for Lee Navigation (From Ware to Lime House for example)

See page 15 of the following document which lists the watercourses for which a river only license is acceptable , so answers your question

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/5962.pdf

 

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While waiting for Kathleen to be fit for travel time for some crazy talk not planning on doing this for a long time and when we do we will probably upgrade to a 25-27ft but I want to explore all the options.

I will state here we have no interest in living on a narrow boat, they are just not for us, we love cruisers.

Would it be possible to live on a 20ft like the Buckingham, lets first break down the pros and cons and I am looking at this compared to a bigger boat so I am not including all the normal problems of waste disposal, water, food and medical.

Pro's Only one small area to heat, great fuel economy, ability to go on any canal and to turn around within our own boat length, (quite a powerful engine or should be when fixed).

Cons Storage and space or should I say STORAGE! and SPACE!.

For 2 years of our life we lived in an old terrace house private landlord and the only liveable room was the living room we cooked on a table top mini oven and slept on an inflatable matress, gaps under the doors that you could fit your thumb under and a mile walk to the laundry place.

For 16 years we lived in a very small medical bungalow and my clothing closet (I know it will be hard to believe) was a small box under my desk, it contained 3 t-shirts, 3 trousers, a few pants and socks, that was my entire clothing in the house except for a coat and a good pair of waterproof trainers.

We  own 5000+ DVD/Blueray series/films  and 4000+ music cd's which long ago we realised took up too much room, I stripped them all out of the plastic boxes ripped them to hard drive and have the actual disks and paper covers in two foot lockers ready for storage, now our entire collection of entertainment  only takes up less than a shoe box, a Synology Nas with 18TB of space (plus a backup version), can stream to phones, tablets, computers, modern TV and it runs on about 6w.

My and wife's gaming computers used to be beastly things that had there own rooms, now we have access 25w idle 70w gaming mode, laptops with really good graphics cards that can play any modern game.

We are an unusual couple because not only do we love each others company (we do everything together) we have lived in each others pockets for almost 20 years now for 15 years of that time I only left the house to walk the dog.

Medical, yes my wife is disabled but once the Doctors have finally signed off on her treatment we will go back to 6 months medication and 1 Consultant visit every 6 months, plus even now while she is still getting use to the new medication we walk (me walk she in wheelchair) 4 miles around stoke on trent (if anyone knows how hill ridden that place is) we can easily do 8 miles on the canals walking we have done before.

I own a really nice temporary solar system I designed based around a single 240w flexible boat solar panel paired with a few GEL batteries which are capable of running most things in the house except the kitchen. plus multiple portable solar systems and backups.

Like I said this will be a long term goal far beyond this year, once Kathleen is docked at Aston and I have taken stock of her storage ability and everything else, we also will not move from our current house full time until my mum has passed away (she is in late stage alzhiemers and we moved next door last year to help out) so hopefully at least a couple of years.

This is just me sounding out the smart people on the forum and yes I agree to some this would be crazy even to think of living on a 20ft boat but if you look at how minimalist we as a couple can be it may be possible and it makes for a very interesting project, just how far could I push this little 20ft boat.

 

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It's certainly not unheard of-and on the London waterways, I think quite a number of people live on boats of sub-25ft-one guy I know via FB on a 16ft one. I am sure there are forum members who have lived on 25ft and less boats because it's come up before, but I can't recall who they were offhand. Those few extra feet to get a 25-27ft boat will make a lot of difference though.

You will have to think about not only if you will have space for everything you need-small boats don't always have things like a shower, proper oven, that sort of jazz, as well as stuff you need personally, including mobility aids-but also how much space you will find ok to live in and not be claustrophobic or get cabin fever. Not such an issue in the summer, but long nights in the winter maybe, or if your partner goes through a bad phase and can't really go out, or when it pisses rain for days on end. Times like that, you won't be outside so much and might find it a pain, particularly if most of the boat is taken up with wet clothes and boots etc., trying to dry. Do you still have a dog? That's another potential challenge.

Also, I get your point about the hills, but in some areas, parts of the towpath can be virtually inaccessible by wheelchair. Either there are steep  steps up and down to the canal, or the surface is just impossible for wheels due to the width or surfacing-particularly in the winter when large parts of it become a quagmire that is barely passable on foot.

Other issues might be things like, how small the water tank is likely to be, if you will have enough counter space, will it do your head in after a while having to turn a table into a bed every night-that kind of thing. You are likely to still need an engine or genny in the winter, even with lots of solar, and you will be limited in terms of roof space for enough solar on a small boat too. I have 3x 120w solar panels and am a very light user-laptop, fridge, water pump, phone charger, that's pretty much it-and I still need to top up for at least three months of the year. That's without any bells and whistles like a TV, microwave, dishwasher, washing machine etc.

Some folk will tell you it would be a nightmare and you can't do it, but that is the answer for them personally, not for you. Plenty of people won't have it that I can really live on a 30ft boat happily despite it being fitted out to ensure it was comfortable for me to do just that, and that I am now in my sixth year... Although that is me on my own, in order to live with someone else comfortably I'd probably want more space-an ocean liner would probably be just about tolerable in that respect.

There is a lot to bear in mind, and some problems may not become apparent until/unless you try it for a year, but it may be doable for you, once again, depending on you.

Edited by Starcoaster
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It certainly can be done and people do do it, even in smaller boats.

You would have to be very minimalist though.

We could manage living on our 25ft boat if we needed too. We have had it long enough to know now that we could. But we don't need too so we don't. But and it is a big but, our boat is quite well kitted out, far better then some small boats and it is for the majority of the boat double skinned which helps with insulating in the winter. The majority of small river boats are not. How will you keep it heated and condensation at bay in the winter?

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You all bring up some good points and that is what I was hoping for.

Showering and laundry, I should point out that both myself and wife are or were survivalists/preppers we spent a lot of time in our past preparing for the "what if" scenarios supplies and training accordingly, the interesting thing is this set us up very well for a boat, a lot of items you gather for end of the world type events work really well for camping and boating for example solar showers and bio degradable toilet wipes, a compost toilet in the house, Showering and laundry some people will find this horrible but we only shower and I only shave once a week, we let our bodies look after themselves allow the good/bad bacteria balance on our skins keep everything in check and our laundry machine only goes on once every 7 days (soap nuts no artificial detergent), I have been drying/collecting wood for years and often cook all the days meals outside using either a solo stove, a biolite stove or the fire pit both in summer and winter I once did a family roast/full days meals midwinter with a mix of snow and rain to keep me company, as long as we could get to a CRT shower and a laundry once a week things would be cool.

Our Mifi setup (backup internet for the home) can with a switch of wifi run everything in the house.

With our knowledge and use of cheap thermal blankets (the thermal foil kind) I know for about £20 and a little crafting/duct tape knowledge could make the cabin of a 20ft retain a lot of heat and with the bonus of removing them in mild weather and or reversing them to keep out the heat in hot weather.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

I should point out that both myself and wife are or were survivalists/preppers we spent a lot of time in our past preparing for the "what if" scenarios supplies and training accordingly, the interesting thing is this set us up very well for a boat, a lot of items you gather for end of the world type events work really well for camping and boating

I which case you may well be aware of the Sawyer Mini Filter (£20) - I found that with the addition of an inline activated carbon filter (£10) you get 'better than tap water quality'. Could help resolve the question of having a very small tank.

The Sawyer MINI Water Filter is rated to 0.1 micron absolute, weighs only 2 ounces, and filters up to 100,000 gallons of water! The MINI can be attached to the included collapsible drinking pouch, inline on a hydration pack, on a standard soda bottle, or simply use the included drinking straw to drink directly from the water source. How is that for versatility? Like all Sawyer filters, a proper backwashing can restore up to 98.5% of the filter’s flow rate. That means no expensive cartridges to replace, ever...

* Ideal for outdoor recreation, hiking, camping, scouting, domestic and international travel and emergency preparedness...

* The MINI removes 99.99999% of all bacteria, such as salmonella, cholera and E.coli; removes 99.9999% of all protozoa, such as giardia and cryptosporidium...


The addition of the carbon filter after the 'Mini' allows for the removal of chemicals and improves the taste.

"Active charcoal carbon filters are the best known treatment for organic chemicals, VOCs, pesticides, herbicides, and chlorine and its by-products. It is also an unchallenged taste-and-odor improver."

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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  Please don't take this the wrong way but you sound like your going to be the Marina owners worst nightmare, you say your wife needs a wheel chair, you have a dog, you'll be living on the boat and don't leave the house much.  I don't think this will be much fun and certainly not living the dream especially in the winter months. I've seen people try living on these little plastics before and within 6 month they have just become a eye sore, usually with lots of their belongings piled up around the boat and the boat being covered with a tarpaulin to keep dry.  You have mooring at Aston Marina, what are the rules about using the Pontoons as a lot of Marina's require you to keep everything on the boat and to keep the walkways clear? Not much scope for outside cooking.  You have to think about your neighbours as no one wants to be moored next to a boat that looks an eye sore especially a plastic as Naughty Cal probably knows.

Edited by Northernboater
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1 hour ago, Northernboater said:

  Please don't take this the wrong way but you sound like your going to be the Marina owners worst nightmare, you say your wife needs a wheel chair, you have a dog, you'll be living on the boat and don't leave the house much.  I don't think this will be much fun and certainly not living the dream especially in the winter months. I've seen people try living on these little plastics before and within 6 month they have just become a eye sore, usually with lots of their belongings piled up around the boat and the boat being covered with a tarpaulin to keep dry.  You have mooring at Aston Marina, what are the rules about using the Pontoons as a lot of Marina's require you to keep everything on the boat and to keep the walkways clear? Not much scope for outside cooking.  You have to think about your neighbours as no one wants to be moored next to a boat that looks an eye sore especially a plastic as Naughty Cal probably knows.

We know this only too well. We are moored next to one who the marina owners desperately want rid of. Trouble is he pays his mooring fees up front on time so that have no grounds to remove him.

In a way it helps us him being there as the boat never moves so won t hit us and is narrow so we can get our dinghy between the two boats.

But it is an eyesore. 

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2 hours ago, Northernboater said:

  Please don't take this the wrong way but you sound like your going to be the Marina owners worst nightmare, you say your wife needs a wheel chair, you have a dog, you'll be living on the boat and don't leave the house much.  I don't think this will be much fun and certainly not living the dream especially in the winter months. I've seen people try living on these little plastics before and within 6 month they have just become a eye sore, usually with lots of their belongings piled up around the boat and the boat being covered with a tarpaulin to keep dry.  You have mooring at Aston Marina, what are the rules about using the Pontoons as a lot of Marina's require you to keep everything on the boat and to keep the walkways clear? Not much scope for outside cooking.  You have to think about your neighbours as no one wants to be moored next to a boat that looks an eye sore especially a plastic as Naughty Cal probably knows.

I hope never to take anything on this forum the wrong way.

We have a dog (a small terrier (we also own a large dog but he is very old and will not come on a boat with us, sadly I do not think he will be around when and if we take that plunge) we are responsible owners, no matter what dog we have ever owned he never goes off lead (we have an extendable lead 8m which is enough) and I always carry 2-3 bags to collect anything my dog does).

You took something out of context my example was to show we could live in a small place but that is understandable and probably my fault as I did not explain well enough, the medical assist bungalow we lived in was in a rough area of the city, lots of thugs and drunks, parks full of people having sex and drugs, so for that part of our live we lived it primarily indoors, we love to roleplay, table top, online gaming and watching a lot of TV series  we did what we had to so that we did not go crazy, since moving down to where we live now next door to my Mum we go out every day, we have explored stoke on trent to the limit that is available without a car journey, even epic adventures down the canal for 8-10 miles we specifically bought an Enduro model Wheelchair last year that has good wheel suspension I have pushed Paola across dirt, gravel and fields, part of the reason to have a boat is we want to travel (basic idea being 4-6 miles down a canal find a place to moor up get off the boat and explore for a day then move another 4-6 miles and do the same), we have no idea how much time Paola has it will hopefully be years but we will not be sitting in a marina, we are not fair weather travellers in fact my wife has her waterproofs as do I and if she is up to going out even if it is raining or a blizzard then we damn well get out there. 

IF Kathleen was big enough (looking at extra storage lockers or fittings) then we would invest the money into her, get her out of the water a new anti fouling and above water have her painted to mine and Paola's design (she already has some ideas) fit a new eberspacher heater, have the windows redone, a new canopy  made, a 240v system, a complete reconditioning of the engine if needed, if you moored up next to us you would find us very boat proud owners and we already know how to live minimalist so we would never impose on people or clutter a mooring.

Our knowledge of solar, battery and electrical means we will never buy or need a generator beyond the normal power given by the engine.

Yes we may do a BBQ or cook now and then on the bank side but that would be while we were out adventuring even in wheelchair we often took our solo stove with us and cooked up a few meals and never left a mess or caused anyone a problem.

The wheelchair also breaks down into multiple parts for easy storage is only 10kg

A portable aluminium ramp will be measured and fitted once at aston.

Also if we were to take the steps to live on board we would spend 90% of our time away from marina's exploring everywhere we could even continuous cruising in the real spirit it was meant for not as a way to get out of paying fees, we would explore every canal and river we could get to.

As for us being a Marina's worst nightmare ? well you just made yourself look like a complete Ass, Nick has met us, not only his he keeping a very nice spot reserved for us (he knows Paola likes to Paint and take pictures so he is putting us on the part that has the best view, also the part that leads to the old church and graveyards (he knows from our chats Paola loves that kind of architecture) he has taken the time to get to know us and knows we will be people who love that Marina).

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1 minute ago, Calranthe said:

I hope never to take anything on this forum the wrong way.

We have a dog (a small terrier (we also own a large dog but he is very old and will not come on a boat with us, sadly I do not think he will be around when and if we take that plunge) we are responsible owners, no matter what dog we have ever owned he never goes off lead (we have an extendable lead 8m which is enough) and I always carry 2-3 bags to collect anything my dog does).

You took something out of context my example was to show we could live in a small place but that is understandable and probably my fault as I did not explain well enough, the medical assist bungalow we lived in was in a rough area of the city, lots of thugs and drunks, parks full of people having sex and drugs, so for that part of our live we lived it primarily indoors, we love to roleplay, table top, online gaming and watching a lot of TV series  we did what we had to so that we did not go crazy, since moving down to where we live now next door to my Mum we go out every day, we have explored stoke on trent to the limit that is available without a car journey, even epic adventures down the canal for 8-10 miles we specifically bought an Enduro model Wheelchair last year that has good wheel suspension I have pushed Paola across dirt, gravel and fields, part of the reason to have a boat is we want to travel (basic idea being 4-6 miles down a canal find a place to moor up get off the boat and explore for a day then move another 4-6 miles and do the same), we have no idea how much time Paola has it will hopefully be years but we will not be sitting in a marina, we are not fair weather travellers in fact my wife has her waterproofs as do I and if she is up to going out even if it is raining or a blizzard then we damn well get out there. 

IF Kathleen was big enough (looking at extra storage lockers or fittings) then we would invest the money into her, get her out of the water a new anti fouling and above water have her painted to mine and Paola's design (she already has some ideas) fit a new eberspacher heater, have the windows redone, a new canopy  made, a 240v system, a complete reconditioning of the engine if needed, if you moored up next to us you would find us very boat proud owners and we already know how to live minimalist so we would never impose on people or clutter a mooring.

Our knowledge of solar, battery and electrical means we will never buy or need a generator beyond the normal power given by the engine.

Yes we may do a BBQ or cook now and then on the bank side but that would be while we were out adventuring even in wheelchair we often took our solo stove with us and cooked up a few meals and never left a mess or caused anyone a problem.

The wheelchair also breaks down into multiple parts for easy storage is only 10kg

A portable aluminium ramp will be measured and fitted once at aston.

Also if we were to take the steps to live on board we would spend 90% of our time away from marina's exploring everywhere we could even continuous cruising in the real spirit it was meant for not as a way to get out of paying fees, we would explore every canal and river we could get to.

As for us being a Marina's worst nightmare ? well you just made yourself look like a complete Ass, Nick has met us, not only his he keeping a very nice spot reserved for us (he knows Paola likes to Paint and take pictures so he is putting us on the part that has the best view, also the part that leads to the old church and graveyards (he knows from our chats Paola loves that kind of architecture) he has taken the time to get to know us and knows we will be people who love that Marina).

With all due respect, the money that this little list of jobs will cost you would probably have been better off spent buying a bigger and better specced boat in the first instance. 

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3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I which case you may well be aware of the Sawyer Mini Filter (£20) - I found that with the addition of an inline activated carbon filter (£10) you get 'better than tap water quality'. Could help resolve the question of having a very small tank.

The Sawyer MINI Water Filter is rated to 0.1 micron absolute, weighs only 2 ounces, and filters up to 100,000 gallons of water! The MINI can be attached to the included collapsible drinking pouch, inline on a hydration pack, on a standard soda bottle, or simply use the included drinking straw to drink directly from the water source. How is that for versatility? Like all Sawyer filters, a proper backwashing can restore up to 98.5% of the filter’s flow rate. That means no expensive cartridges to replace, ever...

* Ideal for outdoor recreation, hiking, camping, scouting, domestic and international travel and emergency preparedness...

* The MINI removes 99.99999% of all bacteria, such as salmonella, cholera and E.coli; removes 99.9999% of all protozoa, such as giardia and cryptosporidium...


The addition of the carbon filter after the 'Mini' allows for the removal of chemicals and improves the taste.

"Active charcoal carbon filters are the best known treatment for organic chemicals, VOCs, pesticides, herbicides, and chlorine and its by-products. It is also an unchallenged taste-and-odor improver."

At home we use a Berkey, it has a filter that lasts 23,000 liters and can even handle canal/stagnant water pretty amazing, yes that was our thought exactly Alan

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