Advice needed (not a narrow boat)

[Northernboater]

26 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Ignore him, I suspect it did not read as he thought it would on the page. Anyway he totally missed the point I was  trying to make.

Love to see him trying to sort out an ECU controlled diesel with a  basic tool kit - as they will all be in 40 years time, If we are still running diesels..

Do narrowboat diesel's have a ECU?  The new bread of Boaters have no interest in old engines or rebuilding them every 7000hrs,  we can all live in the past when engines were real engines and be mesmerized by the exhaust note, but today is today and most of the new boaters coming onto the canals don't know the difference between a BMC, Bolinder or Barrus and only describe their engines by colour, fact

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Are these same engines not used in narrowboats ? Is there not equal risk in buying an old narrowboat?

 

Yes old one's or cheap one's

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

This has really put me off the BMC, far too complex,

Sadly, once again you show your ignorance. There's nothing complex about a BMC, they're just (mostly) old. 

[Northernboater]

48 minutes ago, mross said:

This gratuitous rudeness is not in spirit of this forum.  I know northerners can be blunt but this is over the top.

As I said most of us, including you, not rudeness just fact.

[croftie]

15 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

Now this shows your complete ignorance. 

Old plastic boats from the 80's and earlier are built like flexible tanks this was before they realised how little fibreglass they could get away with using, old boats like Kathleen and earlier do not suffer as much from damage like the modern fibreglass because the layers were so thick and even an old BMC can be maintained and work for a very long time as long as you do not do something stupid  

 

+1

[Northernboater]

19 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

Now this shows your complete ignorance. 

Old plastic boats from the 80's and earlier are built like flexible tanks this was before they realised how little fibreglass they could get away with using, old boats like Kathleen and earlier do not suffer as much from damage like the modern fibreglass because the layers were so thick and even an old BMC can be maintained and work for a very long time as long as you do not do something stupid  

 

What like cruise it without checking your engine, then realise you have diesel spurting everywhere and confusing it with oil, sorry

5 minutes ago, croftie said:

+1

Try reading the full post

[Graham Davis]

1 minute ago, Northernboater said:

What like cruise it without checking your engine, then realise you have diesel spurting everywhere and confusing it with oil, sorry

Perhaps you need to learn the use of tact to moderate your bluntness.

[Northernboater]

1 minute ago, Graham Davis said:

Perhaps you need to learn the use of tact to moderate your bluntness.

Why, what's wrong with saying it as it is? 

[Graham Davis]

Because it can be blunt to the tune of rudeness

[Northernboater]

Just now, Graham Davis said:

Because it can be blunt to the tune of rudeness

We can all wrap the new boat owners in cotton wool, but if they don't learn by their mistakes it will only cost them money.

[croftie]

21 minutes ago, Northernboater said:

Try reading the full post

I have read the whole thread and commentated at certain points. As an owner of a boat with a BMC 2.2 I can only speak from experience as to BMC engines and IMHO if looked after they are good solid engines.

[Northernboater]

8 minutes ago, croftie said:

I have read the whole thread and commentated at certain points. As an owner of a boat with a BMC 2.2 I can only speak from experience as to BMC engines and IMHO if looked after they are good solid engines.

And you tighten all the connections after you have bled the fuel system. Lol.

[croftie]

3 minutes ago, Northernboater said:

And you tighten all the connections after you have bled the fuel system. Lol.

Obviously I tighten and then carefully check for leaks after bleeding a diesel engine, something I was told to do 50 years ago and have done since owning my own garage for 40 years. Suggest you read my earlier posts re the leaks. My +1 was in relation to the OP's post re old fibreglass boats often having a greater layup than newer ones and that BMC engines were a good solid motor.

[cereal tiller]

26 minutes ago, croftie said:

I have read the whole thread and commentated at certain points. As an owner of a boat with a BMC 2.2 I can only speak from experience as to BMC engines and IMHO if looked after they are good solid engines.

I have a 40 year old B.M.C. 2.5 with 14000 Hours on it and it runs fine(it does get pampered)

CT

[Calranthe]

1 hour ago, Northernboater said:

What like cruise it without checking your engine, then realise you have diesel spurting everywhere and confusing it with oil, sorry

Yes I am new to all this and I will make mistakes and learn from them but to clarify, we are having a loss of oil as well as diesel, which is being looked at and yes I mistook a fuel filter for an oil filter but at the same time I still appreciate the boat I have and will learn, I chose Kathleen after a lot of investigation of my options, I discounted many other boats and outboards/petrol, I read up on "plastic" boats from the 60's onwards, did you know that a so called plastic boat from the 60's to the 80's have very little risk of osmotic blistering due to the density and way they made them back then. I also read up a lot on engines, I knew that BMC like many other have quirks and issues but I also now know  in real time what some of those issues are.

One of the things we did not point out is we noticed after leaving dock that none of our dials were working, for the first mile we had no dials at all (we moored up as soon as we got onto the TMC feeling it was safer than stopping on the Trent, we were even concerned that when we stopped the engine it would not start again.

It was something we did not know thats all, seems you turn the key one way to preheat and start the engine then twist it the other way and all the dials kick in, Voltage showed fine, fuel showed fine, temp high and oil pressure was waving around the 0-5 mark now we assumed wrongly that it was not working (we will not make that mistake again) its all a learning experience, a first boat experience, but I know the boat is solid because we kinda had a few moments it seemed like we were at the funfair dodgem car ride  and did I mention I love BMC.

Oh and be as blunt as you want but do not try to spin a line of hearsay and urban sludge when you talk about plastic boats and expect me not to point out your own issues.

Most of the people on this forum have been amazing and I never asked to be wrapped in cotton wool, happy to own my own mistakes and learn from them. 

 

[Mr Norman]

Good post and well said. Everyone is new to boating at some point and some need to remember this!

[LadyG]

Seems I am not allowed to comment on anything on this forum, its a strange attitude. I've been sailing for sixty years, but seems that means I know nothing about motor boats., and people think I should shut up.

For your information, I am not going to avoid a BMC if it has been well maintained and all is in vcg, and all the other boxes are ticked but I would prefer a modern engine which should tick along for years if looked after. A brand new engine is so very expensive. Major maintenance in the first week is not something anyone wants, but it is more likely with a boat like OP's. And before you start, I think OP would agree, he knew it would be a risk which he would have avoided if he bought a brand new boat, but then he had a limited budget, as most folks have.

My Yanmar was 1972, the engine used in every Japanese fishing boat in those days. Parts were expensive, but I did not need many, and I could cope with most minor servicing. So, I would be confident that I could cope with a Yanmar, but not confident with an old BMC.

I'm not being critical for the sake of it, as you all seem to imagine. I am reading all this stuff in order to absorb good technical information, there is often conflicting information, in case you had not noticed. There seems to be a some people who are very focussed on their own viewpoint, and they are adamant everyone else is wrong. 

There are lots of other sites which I have found, this is only  one source of information. I  really want to have a smooth transition and there will be enough stress just buying the damn thing without buying a lemon.

I would prefer folks who dont like me just put me on ignore rather than jumping on me whenever I say anything.

Edited June 12, 2017 by LadyG

[Calranthe]

LadyG I do not think it is that people do not like you but sometimes your pieces come off more like an authority than opinion, a new person to boating has new person issues and you use that to basically say you will never touch a BMC as they are overly complicated, which to be fair would ruffle quite a few feathers, anything can be complicated to a new person who is learning although to be fair never in all my posts here have I said the BMC was complicated, it is all just growing pains, in my opinion and a lot of people far wiser BMC engines even though old now have stood the test of time and are as simple an engine as you can get.

It is my own learning curve and mistakes AND my choice with funds available to buy Kathleen and it has not been a nightmare, each day I learn more, I could have gone with many of the outboard petrol craft and in theory it has benefits like being able to just remove the engine to have it services and to get a quite good reconditioned unit for £1,500 but there is a lot of negatives to them, I could have saved up more money.

Kathleen is in my eyes an amazing little boat perfect for what we want, I did not go into this blind and it does not matter if you buy a brand new boat, a proven 40 year old or 10 year, issues will happen, nothing is perfect.

Part of the joy of Kathleen is that even fixing her and maintaining her once at Aston will be a day out, 20 minutes down the road Paola can sit and Paint on the Jetty while I have my hands up to the elbow in stuff

 

[LadyG]

52 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

LadyG I do not think it is that people do not like you but sometimes your pieces come off more like an authority than opinion, a new person to boating has new person issues and you use that to basically say you will never touch a BMC as they are overly complicated, which to be fair would ruffle quite a few feathers, anything can be complicated to a new person who is learning although to be fair never in all my posts here have I said the BMC was complicated, it is all just growing pains, in my opinion and a lot of people far wiser BMC engines even though old now have stood the test of time and are as simple an engine as you can get.

oops, I have been boating for sixty years, in fact I have photos of me in charge of a liferaft in 1950 at Girvan beach!

I should put it up as my profile piccy.

 ..... and then there was a Seagull [you learn to swear at an early age],  then a big Thorneycroft, a Bukh, Volvo Penta, , then my Yanmar YSB12, and a freeby [recalcicrant] Yamaha outboard, oh, and a Honda 125 motorbike. I now only service my three lawnmowers as I can't cope with electronics and stuff, also I buy rather older vehicles these days, and run them in to the ground., but I use a garage which ONLY employs mechanics. 

I did not say never ever BMC marine diesel,  I just said  it puts me off:  bleeding my Yanmar was far simpler, in fact I managed it fine. I had a complete manufacturers manual and the original user manual, a marine mechanic, and a guy who was a specialist with my engine,  so I could ask him anything, using the mobile technology of the day to illustrate problems. So I was able to cope with that engine. 

I dont think people should get so hot under the collar, I am not saying BMC engines are crp, I am sure there are plenty which are still working after forty years and will continue to do so, IF maintained, and if lucky.

I have owned three Minis [death throes of the British Motor Corporation], two were good, one was horrific, and was the very last new car I ever bought, it was the only one I did not service myself [much cheaper in those as it was supposedly under some sort of warranty. Sold it as soon as I could.

Edited June 12, 2017 by LadyG

[Calranthe]

I know a lot about computers, I am 47 now and built my first one at 12, by 14 I had an actual mainframe computer (a systime 5000) in the shed, it was so big I could fit inside it, but I have never owned or wanted to own a Mac, in theory I know enough that I could cope although my windows experience would probably make me a worse person to learn Mac.

You LadyG have a lot of knowledge to do with sailing and boats, you have studied and learned much on narrow boats but you from what I understand have never owned one, you may or may not have been on a hire boat or friends canal boats but your advice is a a newbie in these situations, but your responses come off as someone with years of canal experience, or at least  that is how I perceived them when I first arrived here, you never made it clear you were giving opinions from theory, thus those probably typing from there narrow boat on the  canal's pointed out these things with 10-20+ years of actual experience on canals.

It is just a matter of perception and I know you mean well so I am grateful for any advice or opinions from all camps as you so rightly pointed out you can give a new persons opinion it is just your new person opinions come off like a person of 20 years narrow boating experience if the reader does not know better.

 

[LadyG]

45 minutes ago, Calranthe said:

I know a lot about computers, I am 47 now and built my first one at 12, by 14 I had an actual mainframe computer (a systime 5000) in the shed, it was so big I could fit inside it, but I have never owned or wanted to own a Mac, in theory I know enough that I could cope although my windows experience would probably make me a worse person to learn Mac.

You LadyG have a lot of knowledge to do with sailing and boats, you have studied and learned much on narrow boats but you from what I understand have never owned one, you may or may not have been on a hire boat or friends canal boats but your advice is a a newbie in these situations, but your responses come off as someone with years of canal experience, or at least  that is how I perceived them when I first arrived here, you never made it clear you were giving opinions from theory, thus those probably typing from there narrow boat on the  canal's pointed out these things with 10-20+ years of actual experience on canals.

It is just a matter of perception and I know you mean well so I am grateful for any advice or opinions from all camps as you so rightly pointed out you can give a new persons opinion it is just your new person opinions come off like a person of 20 years narrow boating experience if the reader does not know better.

 

As far as I recall the only time I made any suggestion to you was general: nothing to do with narrow boats, nothing to do with theory, just sensible.

Any boat [not exclusive to narrow boats], which has not been in regular use and has just been purchased, especially older engines, will be always be liable to problems such as you experienced, and your first trip was ambitious, ideally you would have pottered about for a few weeks. So I suggested C&RR to help you out, which you have used, then I think I suggested some assistance, and some servicing, I tried not to appear authorative [though I do have some professional qualifications which carry certain safety responsibilites], I worded it as what I would ideally in your situation. I will be in your position in a few months, so am formulating my own plan, but I realise it may not be possible to do what I want on day_1,.  I might just have to get out of the marina and stop at the first mooring I come to, then pour myself a very large G&T.

I have pulled a few people out of the drink [Safety Officer duties], they are more likely to be newbies to water, but even experienced boaters need to familiarise themselves, and untill it becomes automatic to reach for hand and foot holds, they are more likely to fall in, especially at locks where it is a H&S nightmare, and there are currents, and deep water. This NOTHING to do with narrow boats, it is all boats. This is what I do not comprehend, a narrow boat is a just a different type of boat, most skills are transferrable as the say in Human Resources.

Edited June 12, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

14 hours ago, LadyG said:

 

This is a baptism of fire

I cant remember saying it was a nightmare. But it has been worse than one might anticipate.

Edited June 12, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

12 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

As far as I am concerned lady G and now yourself have made an unfounded statement. Personally I would rather have an engine where the manuals are readily available online and it is fairly easy to find spare.

By all means say BMC engines are old technology, by all means say many BMCs around are worn out & poorly maintained but do not say they are complex. They are no more and no less complex than modern engines. I would also comment that despite the fairly small Yanmar user base on the inland waterway they seem to generate more than their fair share of questions to the magazine.

If you can afford it then obliviously a modern low hours engine is LIKELY (not will) be more reliable than a 40 year old one but not  everyone is in that position. They have to make do with what they can afford. Its nothing to do with old people or rosy glasses.

In any case lady G has shown she thinks she knows it all and is not in the best position to comment on this thread.

Of course they are. Methinks we have two contributors who give advice with little background knowledge.

 

This really annoys me, I could make a very unpleasant response, but I wont, boats are boats, engines are engines, water is water. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by LadyG

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, LadyG said:

This really annoys me, I could make a very unpleasant response, but I wont, boats are boats, engines are engines, water is water. 

If that were true, all you questions would be redundant on here, as you would already know the answers 

[LadyG]

11 hours ago, WotEver said:

Sadly, once again you show your ignorance. There's nothing complex about a BMC, they're just (mostly) old. 

what I said was

"This has really put me off the BMC, far too complex, else I was just very lucky, had a good mechanic and a good engine specialist [Yanmar YSB], and managed the routine stuff myself with a thirty year old engine. "

At no time did I say BMC are the worse thing in the world, I said it has put ME off, I did not say NO one should ever buy a boat with an old BMC, I did not say I would never buy one, BUT I would not buy one which has been neglected, I , that is to say ME, I do not want a project, I do not want to have to fork outfor repairs.

and

"This is a baptism of fire, and to be honest I would ask vendor to pay half your bill. What's the worst he can say..."

I bought a boat, and the dinghy exploded the first sunny day, I contacted the vendor and he gave me half the cost of purchase of a new Avon.

[Calranthe]

If the world were perfect and all things amazing then yes I would have loved to potter about as it were for a few weeks but I do not have that luxury and all joking aside I have a good head on my shoulders and know my limits for example I will not cross a double lock gate yet and if unsure about anything I have Peter with me to help, I am learning but I do not take anything for granted but if Tony with all his amazing knowledge of engines and advice says something damn right I will listen and take note even if it goes against my own thoughts.