Getting boat BSS ready - GAS Questoion

[acdbox]

Hi,

so I am attempting to get a Ducth boat happy with UK BSS but cannot seem to find anywhere categorically the information I am looking for in regards to Test point and Bubble tester.

Basically, to pass a BSS does a bubble tester and Test point need to be installed or would just a single test point be sufficient?

Thank you in advance

Kind Regards

Andreas

[jddevel]

My marine gas engineer installed just a test point in the gas locker in my sailaway currently under fitout. However as I`m due a preliminary "lookover" on Friday before the final test by a registered BSS surveyor we will see what he thinks.

[Phil Ambrose]

I only have a test point and not had any issues.

phil

[acdbox]

Hi, thank you for replying. 

Phil, I think there is a possibility new regulations have come out recently so would be very interested in what the results of the 'look over' reveal for jddevel on friday?

I would appreciate if you could post the results back here please JDDEVEL?

Thank you again

[lulu fish]

Test point or bubble tester is fine. You don't need to have both. 

[MtB]

A test point ought to be mandatory if it isn't already. It is used for tasks other than leak testing.

A bubble tester is a pretty coarse test of gas-tightness but BSS seem ok with it as the only method of testing. I very much doubt RCD would accept just a bubble tester. But I note you are not asking about RCD compliance.

 

[Murflynn]

the advantage of a bubble tester is that any BSS inspector can use it to check for leaks and issue a certificate accordingly.

I understand that using a test point may only be done by a gas technician with the appropriate ticket for working on lpg systems on boats.

the BSS Guide prefers bubble testers, and it allows any inspector to pass your boat.  to quote from Appendix D of the 2015 Guide: 

D.1 PREPARATIONS
1. the examiner will check that the bubble tester is installed in a cylinder locker or cylinder
housing, if not, seek to undertake another means of testing as detailed at 7.12.1. If no
alternative means is available the craft will fail check 7.12.1

[Machpoint005]

1 minute ago, Murflynn said:

the advantage of a bubble tester is that any BSS inspector can use it to check for leaks and issue a certificate accordingly.

I understand that using a test point may only be done by a gas technician with the appropriate ticket for working on lpg systems on boats.

the BSS Guide prefers bubble testers, and it allows any inspector to pass your boat.  to quote from Appendix D of the 2015 Guide: 

D.1 PREPARATIONS
1. the examiner will check that the bubble tester is installed in a cylinder locker or cylinder
housing, if not, seek to undertake another means of testing as detailed at 7.12.1. If no
alternative means is available the craft will fail check 7.12.1

I was about to quote 7.12.1 myself, and it clearly calls for either a bubble tester or an LPG test point. Regarding your comments, my BSS examiner is Gas Safe so that explains why it has never been a problem for me in the last three exams. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

It all resolves around if the boat is lived on, or leisure use only. If leisure use only, then any BSS inspector can check either a bubble tester, or manometer test point. If it is live aboard, then only a BSS inspector with the appropriate gas safe registration can use a manometer. Any BSS inspector can use a bubble tester. BSS examiners with the boat LPG registration are not as common as the regular ones, so if your boat is live aboard, then get a bubble tester fitted as this makes it easier finding an examiner. Alternatively you have to get a BSS examiner and a gas safe registered person on site at the same time so the BSS person can observe the manometer test being done. More hassle and expense. A bubble tester means you can also check there are no leaks at intervals during the four years between exams. Several live aboard boaters at my moori ng have had to get bubble testers fitted over the last couple of years for this reason.

See:

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/boats-with-gas/

Jen

[MtB]

On 03/05/2017 at 14:50, Murflynn said:

I understand that using a test point may only be done by a gas technician with the appropriate ticket for working on lpg systems on boats.

 

Not quite true. It's more complicated than that.

Any old Tom Dick or Harry can use a pressure test nipple UNLESS the boat is a residence, in which case they need to be 'competent' as mandated in the GSUIR. 

In addition if it is a residence AND payment or reward is being made for the gas work, the operative must be both GSR and hold appropriate certification for LPG on boats. Most GSR bods don't hold such certification.

[acdbox]

14 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It all resolves around if the boat is lived on, or leisure use only. If leisure use only, then any BSS inspector can check either a bubble tester, or manometer test point. If it is live aboard, then only a BSS inspector with the appropriate gas safe registration can use a manometer. Any BSS inspector can use a bubble tester. BSS examiners with the boat LPG registration are not as common as the regular ones, so if your boat is live aboard, then get a bubble tester fitted as this makes it easier finding an examiner. Alternatively you have to get a BSS examiner and a gas safe registered person on site at the same time so the BSS person can observe the manometer test being done. More hassle and expense. A bubble tester means you can also check there are no leaks at intervals during the four years between exams. Several live aboard boaters at my moori ng have had to get bubble testers fitted over the last couple of years for this reason.

See:

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/boats-with-gas/

Jen

 

Explains it perfectly! Thank you

To be absolutely clear, just a bubble tester is sufficient and no need to put in a test point in addition?

Thank you again 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

26 minutes ago, acdbox said:

Explains it perfectly! Thank you

To be absolutely clear, just a bubble tester is sufficient and no need to put in a test point in addition?

Thank you again 

That I don't know. The gas engineer who fitted the system on my boat was also a BSS examiner. He put in both a bubble tester and a manometer test point. He did do a long pressure integrity check with the manometer, so it may be that a manometer is more sensitive than a bubble tester. A test point is cheap. Only a pound or two. No reason not to fit one.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/d20/Gas+Fittings/sd2700/Pressure+Test+Point+Fitting/p12525

Jenny

Edited May 3, 2017 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Machpoint005]

As I understand it, a bubble tester tells you there is a tiny (or greater) amount of gas leaking. A manometer tells you how fast it is coming out, if you do the sums.

More to the point it can tell you that gas definitely isn't coming out!

[cuthound]

If you use a BSS Inspector who is gas safe registered for boats, then there is no issue at all. For example,  Craig Allen http://craig-allen-marine.co.uk

[alan_fincher]

Some BSS inspectors ill do the test at a reduced fee if there is a bubble tester, and hence they do not need to spend the time it takes to do the full manometer test.

Clearly from the responses some believe that a manometer test is a more complete one, but the BSS itself does not require it.

If you are happy with a bubble tester, then over time the cost of buying one may be paid back by paying less for each BSS, but I'll not join the argument about which is best, other than point out the BSS office actually encourage rather than discourage the fitting of bubble testers.

 

[lulu fish]

2 hours ago, acdbox said:

 

To be absolutely clear, just a bubble tester is sufficient and no need to put in a test point in addition?

 

Correct

[acdbox]

3 minutes ago, lulu fish said:

Correct

Thank you so much!

[acdbox]

YIppee! All is now clarified.

**** to confirm for all, a bubble tester is required for live aboard BSS examinations where the examiner is not gas safe register certified. If they are certified a test point will suffice.

and with a bubble tested installed, there is no need for a further test point. ****

thank you again

very greatful 

[Murflynn]

as Jen points out, having a bubble tester enables the boat-owner to periodically check the system does not have any leaks.  It could maybe be checked every week, or each time you visit the boat.  A manometer test for the BSS will only be done every 4 years, which may be too late.

[MtB]

On 03/05/2017 at 18:16, acdbox said:

YIppee! All is now clarified.

**** to confirm for all, a bubble tester is required for live aboard BSS examinations where the examiner is not gas safe register certified. If they are certified a test point will suffice.

and with a bubble tested installed, there is no need for a further test point. ****

thank you again

very greatful 

 

A desperate over-simplification. When diagnosing any faulty gas appliance one of the basic checks requires a test point.

[Mikexx]

On 03/05/2017 at 18:16, acdbox said:

YIppee! All is now clarified.

**** to confirm for all, a bubble tester is required for live aboard BSS examinations where the examiner is not gas safe register certified. If they are certified a test point will suffice.

and with a bubble tested installed, there is no need for a further test point. ****

thank you again

very greatful 

 

It is a strange set of affairs.

I have wondered if the owner would be able to fit a manomenter for the BSS inspector, and do the spray/leak test after refitting the test point. That way the inspector doesn't have to 'work' with gas but has been able to view the process from start to finish and estable 'tightness'. He doesn't even have to supervise the process, just view it.

A bubbler wouldn't see a high pressure side/regulator leak either.

 

[jddevel]

An update on my "preliminary" visit by a DSS inspector on the point of gas inspection. I only have a test point NO BUBBLE TESTER. He made no remark concerning not having one but did want confirmation that a non return valve was in incorporated it the pipework in the gas locker.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

16 hours ago, Mikexx said:

 

It is a strange set of affairs.

I have wondered if the owner would be able to fit a manomenter for the BSS inspector, and do the spray/leak test after refitting the test point. That way the inspector doesn't have to 'work' with gas but has been able to view the process from start to finish and estable 'tightness'. He doesn't even have to supervise the process, just view it.

A bubbler wouldn't see a high pressure side/regulator leak either.

 

A bubble tester has to be inside the gas locker, or other area where any gas leaks will be diverted overboard. Thus a high pressure leak upstream of the tester is less of a problem until you come to cook your tea and find the cylinder is empty.

I know budgets can be very tight, but it beats me why people seem to be always trying to find ways of saving a few pounds on gas systems when the consequences of a leak are so immediate and disasterous. Then you get the potential for prosecution and jail time afterwards if you can't prove that you were competent to do the work. I am happy to have a go at making and fixing most things, learning what I can as I go, but gas is the exception. Not ashamed to admit it scares me badly and I'll pay someone qualified to do gas work.

Jenny

Edited May 6, 2017 by Jen-in-Wellies

[WotEver]

On 03/05/2017 at 14:12, lulu fish said:

Test point or bubble tester is fine. You don't need to have both. 

 

On 03/05/2017 at 14:53, Machpoint005 said:

I was about to quote 7.12.1 myself, and it clearly calls for either a bubble tester or an LPG test point.

 

On 03/05/2017 at 18:16, acdbox said:

a bubble tester is required for live aboard BSS examinations where the examiner is not gas safe register certified. If they are certified a test point will suffice.

and with a bubble tested installed, there is no need for a further test point. 

 

9 hours ago, jddevel said:

An update on my "preliminary" visit by a DSS inspector on the point of gas inspection. I only have a test point NO BUBBLE TESTER. He made no remark concerning not having one

I guess if something is repeated often enough...

No, you don't need both. For the sake of a fiver or so, why not have both?

I'm with Jen - what's the big deal about saving a few quid on potentially the most dangerous system on the boat?

[jddevel]

I appreciate your point WotEver. Trouble is in my case I`m following the view that "don`t mess with gas-or electricity" so I employed a Marine qualified Gas Safe engineer who was paid to complete the installation. It is what he fitted.  As I said in another topic. Take it to an expert If you know one. It`s only now following this topic that I feel perhaps I should requested he fit one. But at the time I did not know. That is the problem is it not?