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Brushing on the blacking is hard work, for years I had used a Turks head brush to put it on. Then someone suggested a small paint roller was better with a brush being used to cut in any edges. I didn't rate the idea but decided to give it a try,  it was magic! Fast and with a good finish and much lighter work than using a brush.

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Thanks for the advice..yeah I made sure I had help the first two days as thought prep and first coat are probably the most important things. Got scrapers and wire brush to get any stuff off that pressure washer doesnt.

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23 minutes ago, AlexK91 said:

Thanks for the advice..yeah I made sure I had help the first two days as thought prep and first coat are probably the most important things. Got scrapers and wire brush to get any stuff off that pressure washer doesnt.

I found scrapers to be useless , I eventually got an old 1/2 inch chissel and using 2 hands hacked into the blacking to get it off. The stubborn pieces I left but it got the loose stuff off ok. Took quite a while to do the whole of the boat though.

 

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30 minutes ago, Bloomsberry said:

I found scrapers to be useless , I eventually got an old 1/2 inch chissel and using 2 hands hacked into the blacking to get it off. The stubborn pieces I left but it got the loose stuff off ok. Took quite a while to do the whole of the boat though.

 

If you can't get it off with a scraper (assuming a reasonable blade, replaced as required), I'd have thought its sufficiently sound to leave where it is and black over it.

Clearly, the above applies only to reblacking with a compatible coating, which I believe is the OP's intent.

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  • 2 months later...

Be careful not to put too much blacking on the skin tank. I've had overheating problems for a while and now the boat is out of the water I can see why, because there are at least 5 layers of blacking on the skin tank and looks to be well over a centimetre thick and made worse by the fact that in some areas it's 'bubbled' so there are pockets of air as well which compounds the problem. So get as much of the old stuff off the skin tank before applying the new. 

Silly question now - Once I've power washed and scraped the loose bits off the hull I will wire brush any rusty parts but there are still bound to be some surface rusty parts left no matter how thorough I am. Does it matter if I just apply the blacking over the rust? It wouldn't be loose rust and because it would be covered by blacking and therefore free from oxygen getting to it would that be alright or should I treat it with a primer or something like Vactan?

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9 hours ago, Grassman said:

Be careful not to put too much blacking on the skin tank. I've had overheating problems for a while and now the boat is out of the water I can see why, because there are at least 5 layers of blacking on the skin tank and looks to be well over a centimetre thick and made worse by the fact that in some areas it's 'bubbled' so there are pockets of air as well which compounds the problem. So get as much of the old stuff off the skin tank before applying the new. 

Silly question now - Once I've power washed and scraped the loose bits off the hull I will wire brush any rusty parts but there are still bound to be some surface rusty parts left no matter how thorough I am. Does it matter if I just apply the blacking over the rust? It wouldn't be loose rust and because it would be covered by blacking and therefore free from oxygen getting to it would that be alright or should I treat it with a primer or something like Vactan?

I would treat any areas of rust that you wire brush off with Vactan and then black over the Vactan . Any area of blacking that stay on after pressure washing I would leave and just paint over . Whilst using a roller is easier I've found it doesn't always get into the small pits so prefer to use a brush which also applies a thicker coat . I also black the baseplate which is about as controversial on this forum as cassette versus pump out. 

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12 hours ago, Troyboy said:

I would treat any areas of rust that you wire brush off with Vactan and then black over the Vactan . Any area of blacking that stay on after pressure washing I would leave and just paint over . Whilst using a roller is easier I've found it doesn't always get into the small pits so prefer to use a brush which also applies a thicker coat . I also black the baseplate which is about as controversial on this forum as cassette versus pump out. 

I plan to apply the blacking over the Vactan treated parts once they have dried thoroughly but I'm concerned because I've read elsewhere that paint sometimes doesn't adhere to the Vactan properly and was wondering if that would be the same with bitumen blacking. Does anybody know if this is correct?  Should I perhaps lightly rub down or wash off the Vactan treated areas before applying the blacking?

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Just paint the bitumen over the Vactan no need to rub down or wash off . Vactan soon dries but I cannot remember how long the manufacturers recommend before overpainting . You will find it on their website I'm sure. 

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4 hours ago, Grassman said:

I've read elsewhere that paint sometimes doesn't adhere to the Vactan properly

I've never seen this. Where did you read it? Vactan dries to a vinyl primer which I've always found works very well for anything I've painted on top of it. Last year I did a cheap and nasty 'fix' to a mate's Transit van. He had a lot of superficial rust along the sill areas. We liberally painted some Vactan all along that edge and left it a few days to dry. We then slapped on some aerosol White from Halfords. A year on it still looks like the day we did it. Although obviously this is just a nasty 'fix' it shows that the paint stuck well. 

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:

Last year I did a cheap and nasty 'fix' to a mate's Transit van. He had a lot of superficial rust along the sill areas. We liberally painted some Vactan all along that edge and left it a few days to dry. 

No doing the baseplate is asking for trouble! ;)

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Thanks for that advice boys, it will save me a lot of hassle now I know I can just apply the blacking on top. I plan to leave applying the blacking until the following day so that should allow plenty enough time for the Vactan to dry.

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hhhm, as this international interzone 954 http://www.international-pc.com/PDS/2589-P-eng-A4.pdf is a two pack , one coat coating , and can be used over some other coatings [test patch required], why not black the main part of the hull with a cheaper coating, and use the 954 in the upper [splash] zone? I am assuming two coats of 954 can  be applied .

There are several different Interzone products, not sure which one is used for steel canal boats

Edited by LadyG
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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

hhhm, as this international interzone 954 http://www.international-pc.com/PDS/2589-P-eng-A4.pdf is a two pack , one coat coating , and can be used over some other coatings [test patch required], why not black the main part of the hull with a cheaper coating, and use the 954 in the upper [splash] zone? I am assuming two coats of 954 can  be applied .

There are several different Interzone products, not sure which one is used for steel canal boats

I suspect the whole side is splash zone for the purposes of this stuff. If it's used on jetties and rig legs, a couple of feet of fresh water shouldn't be much of a challenge. 

I don't know of anyone who has tried Interzone, but it does say it covers other coatings, ginger surface rust and hand prep is also mentioned. It can also be used on jetties between tides, so I don't see how they'd be much better prepared than we achieve before bitumen. It's the prep standards folk usually quote as a bar to these higher tech coatings, but you'd think there'd be such a product which did a better job than bitumen for our purpose. Interzone doesn't look far away, does it.

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2 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

I suspect the whole side is splash zone for the purposes of this stuff. If it's used on jetties and rig legs, a couple of feet of fresh water shouldn't be much of a challenge. 

I don't know of anyone who has tried Interzone, but it does say it covers other coatings, ginger surface rust and hand prep is also mentioned. It can also be used on jetties between tides, so I don't see how they'd be much better prepared than we achieve before bitumen. It's the prep standards folk usually quote as a bar to these higher tech coatings, but you'd think there'd be such a product which did a better job than bitumen for our purpose. Interzone doesn't look far away, does it.

I used interzone 954 for my boat last year after getting some dissappointing results with normal bitumen.

I didn't coat it over any existing blacking but prepped the surface back to metal  to try and get the best adhesion.

12 months later and the interzone is still intact and is not showing any signs of deteriation.

Just to add that the prep was very time consuming and I only had 3 days so concentrated on the vunerable areas ie. waterline, welding seams and pitted areas.I slapped on old bitumen on other areas I didn't get time to prep.

I'm having the boat back out of the water next year to check on the condition of the interzone and include other areas if existing areas are still intact.

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On 03/05/2017 at 12:21, AlexK91 said:

I've been told the one there is really powerful and needs two people as really tiring.

Thanks

That's what you want. Start straight away, keep the hull damp, have waterproofs and wellies, take breaks.

As you have said, focus the prep on the keys bits, waterline and any near metal areas. The rest should be ok we basically just pressure washing. You can't get high grade prep all over without costly shot blasting which should not normally be required.

Disposable gloves a brushes/rollers as said, either 4inch rollers or if you can get a handle 8inch is nice. A full 9-10 becomes a handful if not careful. 

Daniel

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47 minutes ago, Bloomsberry said:

I used interzone 954 for my boat last year after getting some dissappointing results with normal bitumen.

I didn't coat it over any existing blacking but prepped the surface back to metal  to try and get the best adhesion.

12 months later and the interzone is still intact and is not showing any signs of deteriation.

Just to add that the prep was very time consuming and I only had 3 days so concentrated on the vunerable areas ie. waterline, welding seams and pitted areas.I slapped on old bitumen on other areas I didn't get time to prep.

I'm having the boat back out of the water next year to check on the condition of the interzone and include other areas if existing areas are still intact.

So, what about the overlap, did it seem as though the 954 would be compatible with the bitumen type of thing, it would seem to be possible to do some sort of test panel by buying some different coatings. In former days one could ask International for samples to carry out test s, but those days have gone, I suppose.

 

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I've always found blacking my boat by myself bloody hard work which is part of the reason I got it grit blasted and applied two-part epoxy last time. As far as I'm concerned the less frequently I have to do that job the better!

027.jpg

The swims and uxter plates are the hardest work to paint.

029.jpg

 

 

Edited by blackrose
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6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I've always found blacking my boat by myself bloody hard work which is part of the reason I got it grit blasted and applied two-part epoxy last time. As far as I'm concerned the less frequently I have to do that job the better!

027.jpg

Can I ask how much it is likely to cost , ballpark, for a 50 footer.

Did you think about 954?

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11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Can I ask how much it is likely to cost , ballpark, for a 50 footer.

Did you think about 954?

My boat is 57 x 12 ft. Grit blasting cost me £350, which included swims, uxter plates, and the upswept part of the baseplate at the bow. I think I went though 8 cans of Jotamastic 87 (4 cans of Jotamastic 87 aluminium followed by 4 cans of Jotamastic 87 black) at almost £50 a can. so that was £400 in paint. Of course that cost doesn't include the drydock - £400 for two weeks. I finished the job after 5 days but because I'd used the standard grade resin rather than winter grade, the Technical people at Jotun told me I need to leave the boat out of the water for another week. Fortunately the dock wasn't booked! 

I don't know about 954, but as far as I'm concerned Jotamastic 87 is the best two-part epoxy on the market, but use winter grade even in summer otherwise it costs a fortune in dry docking.

Edited by blackrose
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Where on earth are you getting a dry dock for £200 a week ?? 

Im darn sarf and the options seem pricey . £200 a result 

Heres a question about blacking then .

How far up the GU would one have to go away from London ....ish to find a dry dock thats no longer at " London / commuter belt " prices for 7 days ? 

Any ideas ? 

Cheers 

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56 minutes ago, chubby said:

Where on earth are you getting a dry dock for £200 a week ?? 

Im darn sarf and the options seem pricey . £200 a result 

Heres a question about blacking then .

How far up the GU would one have to go away from London ....ish to find a dry dock thats no longer at " London / commuter belt " prices for 7 days ? 

Any ideas ? 

Cheers 

That was Harvington, a DIY dock without any facilities on the Warks Avon - no electricity, water, etc. It's actually £400/week but I had a problem there the year before when I'd booked the dock and drove up there a week earlier to find that the gate wouldn't fully open because there was something stuck behind the gate that we couldn't move. I reported the problem and told them that I wouldn't be able to get my boat in but they didn't do anything and I took a week off work and wasted my time because I couldn't get in. So the next year I got a half price deal from them to make up for it.

 

Android pictures 19-3-15 199.jpg

When I moored at Brentford I used to take my boat to Winkwell just south of Hemel Hempstead. The drydock was reasonable but anything else like hiring their pressure washer was expensive. Give them a try. Or Uxbridge Boat Centre?

https://canalplan.eu/gazetteer/z23v

Edited by blackrose
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Nice one , cheers 

All being well i ll be able to go for a lengthy cruise by end of August ...... hopefully & for around 8 weeks . I shall head north up the GU & go .......anywhere really , as yet ive no plan and so im thinking of doing the blacking whilst on my cruise and hopefully find somewhere away from the London " weighting " .

Winkwell is probably booked until 2031 . Maybe Circus Fields ... but thats still £600 for the week but thats a more appealing option - its covered & i like the Aylesbury Arm . 

Maybe i ll dig out a Nicholsons and have a look at whats further North for DIY - Braunston and further 

cheers

Edited by chubby
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5 hours ago, Bloomsberry said:

I used interzone 954 for my boat last year... 

Thanks for your observations ; interesting stuff to know. I'm wondering how well the Interzone might adhere to sound bitumen. Barring any reaction,  I'd have though it would be like the proverbial stuff to a blanket. Did you try it or perhaps ask International? 

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