Amber Boats

[AllanW]

I was impressed by Amber boats at this years Crick show, and they'll be a serious contender for my cash when I finally get to buy. The boats are built in Poland - and seemingly well built at that. Personally I liked the attention to detail... even the anodes are custom made!

 

But as Amber are not a company I've come across before, and I've not seen any magazine write-ups, I've got to ask - does anyone have any experience of this company or their boats?

 

http://www.amberboats.eu/

 

Comments welcome

 

Allan

[mayalld]

I was impressed by Amber boats at this years Crick show, and they'll be a serious contender for my cash when I finally get to buy. The boats are built in Poland - and seemingly well built at that. Personally I liked the attention to detail... even the anodes are custom made!

 

But as Amber are not a company I've come across before, and I've not seen any magazine write-ups, I've got to ask - does anyone have any experience of this company or their boats?

 

http://www.amberboats.eu/

 

Comments welcome

 

Allan

 

A search of the london gazzette shows that Amber Boats Ltd went into Liquidation in February this year.

 

Looking at the google cached copy of www.amberboats.com (the live site is no longer there) shows that this Amber Boats ceased trading in August 2006, and that it was based in Poland

 

Amber boats (UK) Ltd was registered as a company on 15/8/2006

 

The Amber boats website claims that it was established in 2003.

 

The company the was liquidated a couple of months ago was incorporated in December 2002.

 

There is a good deal of compelling evidence that this is a phoenix company.

 

No money of mine would be going there.

[AllanW]

Thanks Mayalld

 

This is getting interesting...

 

I did a search for amberboats.com in google and came there is only two links.

 

www.amberboats.com and www.narrowboatsalesltd.co.uk

 

The amberboats.com site is as you say not live - and the google cached version says:

 

Narrowcraft

Sp Zoo

Al Wojska Polskiego 90A

82-200 MALBORK

POLAND

 

THIS SITE HAS NO CONNECTION WITH

AMBER BOATS LTD (In Receivership) or AMBER BOATS SP ZOO or AMBER BOATS (UK) Ltd

 

This site was set up in May 2006 when Narrowboat Sales Ltd was the UK Sales Agent for Amber Boats Ltd. In August 2006 Amber Boats Ltd stopped trading. Narrowboat Sales Ltd therefore set up its own manufacturing facility to supply Steel Narrowboats for the UK market. Narrowcraft nor Narrowboat Sales do not have any association with any company past or present that might be called Amber Boats.

 

However - the www.narrowboatsalesltd.co.uk site is very much alive and offering boats which have nearly exactly the same spec as www.amberboats.pl

 

eg.

 

3kw pure sine wave inverter

45hp Barrus Shire

150 prm gearbox

Aquadrive unit

Hospital silencer

Diesel central heating etc etc

 

They also look VERY VERY similar...

 

Also pretty interesting is the narrowboatsales owner company REVHEATH LIMITED

 

Last Accounts Filed: 2004-04-30

Last Accounts Analysed: 2004-04-30

Legal Status: Striking off Notice <- what is this???

 

Ummm - food for thought eh? So thanks for the info Mayalld

 

I'll be checking carefully before parting with cash now! Amber certainly looks like a company that's gone bust and started up quietly again...

 

Allan

 

edit for spelling

Edited May 29, 2007 by AllanW

[pearley]

A striking off notice is requested when a company has ceased trading but is not in liquidation. If all debts are paid, especially VAT, NI, PAYE and Corporation Tax, then a company can apply to Companies House to be struck off.

[AllanW]

A striking off notice is requested when a company has ceased trading but is not in liquidation. If all debts are paid, especially VAT, NI, PAYE and Corporation Tax, then a company can apply to Companies House to be struck off.

 

Thanks for that - but I'm not sure I fully understand...

 

Does this mean that the company has ceased trading?

 

Interesting if it has - as on their specification page http://www.narrowboatsalesltd.co.uk/classicspec.htm it states: "Its all fact and no joke ! 1st May 2007"

 

Mmm - anyone throw any more light on this?

 

Allan

[Freetochat]

A striking off notice can also be iniated by Companies House where statutory documents have not been filed. ie accounts, members list etc. If the last accounts registered was in April 2004, two further sets should have been filed. As has been previously mentioned, care needs to be taken.

[howardang]

Mmm - anyone throw any more light on this?

 

Allan

A quick google also turned up this site

 

http://www.amberboats.eu/boats/index.php

 

Howard Anguish

[Tom Smith]

 

I have read with great interest the comments passed about Amber Boats Limited and like most of these type of Forums, while very good, can also make a lot of judgements based on very little fact. Therefore, I will try and clarify the situation about Amber Boats.

 

Amber Boats was started in 2002 by a guy called Paul Geary and he was funded by a UK investor. One of my companies was approached by Geary, who had heard that we were looking for 20-30 new boats for our own fleet. One of our other companies, Heritage Boat Builders, who have been building boats for over 20 yrs, could not build them as their order books were too full.

 

We then agreed that Amber could build our boats. The designs that Geary had were terrible and so the MD of Heritage went over to Poland and showed them how we wanted the boats built.

 

Up until the beggining of 2006, we had taken over 90% of Ambers production and our own demand was coming to an end. Geary then approached me as owner of Evesham Marina, to become the UK import centre for Amber Boats for retail in the UK. At the same time and unbeknown to us, he was also setting up a simular arrangement with Malcome Burge of Narrowcraft. We understand that these were going to be sold through a company called Narrowcraft Sales Ltd. This move was not conveyed to Geary's Investor, who when he found out about it, wanted it stopped as he was aware of our talks with Geary and it had his approval.

 

Geary was M.D. of Amber Boats PL z.o.o., and using his position attempted to bankrupt Amber Boats in Poland and in colusion with others set about winding up the company and then arranging to buy the assets from the reciever at a knock down price, thus losing all of the investors money, there were two by this time, and he, or others, would end up owning the company. Geary had never put any money into the company. Luckily, his plans were discovered by the investors at the last minute with information from one of the employees who was not happy with things that were going on in Poland. He was removed from office and control of the company was taken over by the two investors.

 

They then approached me about the situation. They told me the whole story and as a result, I became a Director and Shareholder of Amber Boats PL z.o.o. We then set up a new UK company to handle the sales side of the business, which is Amber Boats (UK) Limited, based at Evesham Marina, of which I am Managing Director and the two other investors are Directors.

 

Amber Boats Limited was wound up as Paul Geary was also a Director of that company and would not resign and the other Directors wanted to break that relationship.

 

Geary and Burge of Narrowcraft, then got together in Poland and set up their own manufacturing oporation under the name of Narrowcraft. Using the knowledge and designs that he had obtained from us, they started putting boats into production and that is why their specification is the same as Ambers as these were the specifications that we required for our fleet in the begining.

 

We have purchased the factory in Poland and employ more than 90 staff. We are also planning a new Factory on or own site to increase our fit out unit in Poland. Papers have been lodged with the Public Prosecutor in Poland over the actions of Paul Geary, by the two investors, as it is belived that his actions were criminal under Polish Law.

 

One of your members raised questions and his final comments was that none of his money would be going there. I would just like to add that all of the Shareholders and Directors of Amber Boats are long standing businessmen in their own right and from my own position, my company which owns Evesham Marina, was founded in 1926 and I have been Managing Director of that company for the last 40 years, there are not many companies with that record, especially in the marine industry.

 

If anyone requires anymore information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Tom Smith.

[stuart]

Thanks for that clear explanation Tom, sounds like you went through a difficult time.

[Barry]

Thats excellent Tom - answers a lot of questions - I was very impressed by the Amber boats and was disappointed when doubt was cast on the integrity of the company

 

I have no doubt, though, that more questions will be raised

 

Here's one - Am I right in thinking that if I want an Amber boat it will have to be a standard design - I get to choose the trim only?

[mayalld]

 

I have read with great interest the comments passed about Amber Boats Limited and like most of these type of Forums, while very good, can also make a lot of judgements based on very little fact. Therefore, I will try and clarify the situation about Amber Boats.

 

Amber Boats was started in 2002 by a guy called Paul Geary and he was funded by a UK investor. One of my companies was approached by Geary, who had heard that we were looking for 20-30 new boats for our own fleet. One of our other companies, Heritage Boat Builders, who have been building boats for over 20 yrs, could not build them as their order books were too full.

 

We then agreed that Amber could build our boats. The designs that Geary had were terrible and so the MD of Heritage went over to Poland and showed them how we wanted the boats built.

 

Up until the beggining of 2006, we had taken over 90% of Ambers production and our own demand was coming to an end. Geary then approached me as owner of Evesham Marina, to become the UK import centre for Amber Boats for retail in the UK. At the same time and unbeknown to us, he was also setting up a simular arrangement with Malcome Burge of Narrowcraft. We understand that these were going to be sold through a company called Narrowcraft Sales Ltd. This move was not conveyed to Geary's Investor, who when he found out about it, wanted it stopped as he was aware of our talks with Geary and it had his approval.

 

Geary was M.D. of Amber Boats PL z.o.o., and using his position attempted to bankrupt Amber Boats in Poland and in colusion with others set about winding up the company and then arranging to buy the assets from the reciever at a knock down price, thus losing all of the investors money, there were two by this time, and he, or others, would end up owning the company. Geary had never put any money into the company. Luckily, his plans were discovered by the investors at the last minute with information from one of the employees who was not happy with things that were going on in Poland. He was removed from office and control of the company was taken over by the two investors.

 

They then approached me about the situation. They told me the whole story and as a result, I became a Director and Shareholder of Amber Boats PL z.o.o. We then set up a new UK company to handle the sales side of the business, which is Amber Boats (UK) Limited, based at Evesham Marina, of which I am Managing Director and the two other investors are Directors.

 

Amber Boats Limited was wound up as Paul Geary was also a Director of that company and would not resign and the other Directors wanted to break that relationship.

 

Geary and Burge of Narrowcraft, then got together in Poland and set up their own manufacturing oporation under the name of Narrowcraft. Using the knowledge and designs that he had obtained from us, they started putting boats into production and that is why their specification is the same as Ambers as these were the specifications that we required for our fleet in the begining.

 

We have purchased the factory in Poland and employ more than 90 staff. We are also planning a new Factory on or own site to increase our fit out unit in Poland. Papers have been lodged with the Public Prosecutor in Poland over the actions of Paul Geary, by the two investors, as it is belived that his actions were criminal under Polish Law.

 

One of your members raised questions and his final comments was that none of his money would be going there. I would just like to add that all of the Shareholders and Directors of Amber Boats are long standing businessmen in their own right and from my own position, my company which owns Evesham Marina, was founded in 1926 and I have been Managing Director of that company for the last 40 years, there are not many companies with that record, especially in the marine industry.

 

If anyone requires anymore information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Tom Smith.

 

Thank you for the clarification.

 

However, given the history, and given that Amber was not a well known name in the UK market, I am mystified as to why you might wish to retain a tainted name.

[Tom Smith]

Thats excellent Tom - answers a lot of questions - I was very impressed by the Amber boats and was disappointed when doubt was cast on the integrity of the company

 

I have no doubt, though, that more questions will be raised

 

Here's one - Am I right in thinking that if I want an Amber boat it will have to be a standard design - I get to choose the trim only?

 

No not at all. We can offer many variations to the original layouts to try and accomodate your needs. Obviously, we do not offer a total bespoke boat from Poland. We only build these here at Evesham under the Heritage label, so that you can oversee your project from start to finish.

 

Thank you for your intrest in Amber Boats and please do not hesitate to contact me on 01386 768500 if you require more detailed information.

 

Tom Smith.

 

Thank you for the clarification.

 

However, given the history, and given that Amber was not a well known name in the UK market, I am mystified as to why you might wish to retain a tainted name.

 

I understand your comments, but we feel quite proud of what Amber has achieved since the begining and why hide because of what was attempted by others. We are very gratefull to all of the customers who have placed orders with us and we are determined that they will be proud to own an Amber Boat. It would be all to easy to hide behind another name, but do think that would be the right thing to do? Our staff in Poland are proud to work for Amber, to change the name would put questions in their minds and as I have just said, we are Proud of Amber Boats.

 

Tom Smith.

 

Thanks for that clear explanation Tom, sounds like you went through a difficult time.

 

It was not difficult for me but it was for my fellow Directors. However, out of everything bad there comes good and that is how we all feel now.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tom.

[carlt]

Interesting read but only one side of the story is told.

 

Malcom Burge has also been a canal/boat related businessman for many years and is involved with businesses both well established, and respected.

 

You may be the most honest businessman in the world, Tom, but, without hearing both sides of an argument like this, who would throw all of their money into a potentially fragile company with such a fractured past?

 

I'm sure there are other folk involved in this story that may feel you've pulled the rug from under their feet. I look forward to seeing their comments, though they may be less inclined to fling mud in public.

 

To be fair, I would point out that I would steer clear of the other company named as well, until I'd heard both sides of the argument.

[anhar]

For those looking at Polish built boats, New Boat Co. was the first to do this I think and has been suppling them under the name of Aqualine for some years now. I considered an Aqualine Manhattan narrowboat a while back, they appear very nice boats to me, beautifully fitted, though they are more expensive than Amber's boats. I dont' know whether the higher price arises from a higher quality of fit out etc. When I first looked the Manhattan was the only model in the NBC range though it has now been expanded to cover a widebeam and other narrow models.

 

http://www.aqualinemarine.co.uk/

 

regards

Steve

Edited June 1, 2007 by anhar

[Adam]

Are they not built on Liverpool boat shells?

[anhar]

Are they not built on Liverpool boat shells?

Hello Adam

 

If you mean the Aqualine, then no, these are built wholly in Poland, shell and fitout. You are thinking of other boats supplied by NBC such as their Sandpiper range which are Liverpool jobs in both shell and fitout. In fact NBC don't actually make anything, they are a selling business for other builders.

 

regards

Steve

Edited June 1, 2007 by anhar

[Adam]

So would it not be cheaper to buy direct from the original builder?

[anhar]

So would it not be cheaper to buy direct from the original builder?

No. For an Aqualine from Poland, you couldn't possibly arrange it for the same money. Plus you would have all the hassle of arranging transport and delivery. This is something that works only in bulk and needs to be done by those with business experience.

 

For a Liverpool, you can indeed buy direct, they advertise their boats. Whether the value is better than NBC for a similar quality of fitout etc. I don't know. That can be ascertained only by a close comparision of price for an indentical quality of fitout, if that is even possible. However you can't assume that just because you have a middleman like NBC involved, that automatically the price is inflated by their margin. They have bulk buying powers with Liverpool and consequently will obtain discounts that a direct buyer could never arrange. It is quite possible that the NBC boats are actually no dearer, maybe even cheaper than Liverpool's own, or offer better value in terms of a superior quality, style etc. for similar money.

 

regards

Steve

[AllanW]

Tom

 

Thanks ever so much for the post - that's cleared up most of my questions (though I can see where the reader was coming from about a 'fractured company)

 

Both Paris and the widebeam were boats to be proud of in Crick - and I'll certainly be thinking of Amber as a contender for my cash when the time comes!

 

Interesting that you only joined the forum yesterday though... did you hear there was a topic about Amber boats or were you just browsing?

 

BTW - As a boat builder, Gary of Legard is has been able to offer excellent insights on the workings of the industry 'from the other side' if you like - so I'm sure I speak for many here when I say that your future posts will be read and followed with interest

 

Good luck for the future with Amber boats... no doubt we'll get to talk further one day!

 

Allan

 

PS - Those custom made anodes were a bit different!

Edited June 1, 2007 by AllanW

[John Orentas]

Does anyone know what has happend to Lees Narrowboats and their Moroccan boats. There was a thread running two years ago about one bought by 'Miller'.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...art=#entry16108

[NB Willawaw]

Perhaps you could ask Mayalld - Mr.Jinks was built by Lees I believe..

 

Does anyone know what has happend to Lees Narrowboats and their Moroccan boats. There was a thread running two years ago about one bought by 'Miller'.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...art=#entry16108

[Gary Peacock]

The bubble went pop!

[mayalld]

Does anyone know what has happend to Lees Narrowboats and their Moroccan boats. There was a thread running two years ago about one bought by 'Miller'.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...art=#entry16108

 

Lees Narrowboats went into Liquidation in July 2006.

 

The site has been bought by JWD Rainwater Goods for use as a storage facility.

 

JWD are continuing to provide moorings as before, and the office side of the building has been leased to Acorn Engineering, who will now run their chandlery business canalside, and will branch out into canalside services (gas, diesel, pumpout, cranage etc)

[Paul Geary]

To put a few things straight.

 

My name is Paul Geary

 

I was the person responsible for the manufacturing of NarrowBoats in Poland.

 

I approached Chris Hill at the NewBoat Company and started the venture that became Aqualine.

 

I was the person that formed Amber Boats.

 

I am working at NarrowCraft Sp Zoo.

 

My friend from Nottingham (Trevor) who visited me often in Poland and watched the first boat being built by Paneltex Polska became the MD of Amber Boats Ltd. My brother Keith worked in Amber Boats Ltd, but he and Trevor did not get on. So Keith left and did his own thing.

 

Amber Sold boats to Cascades Management (previously Stratford Court Cruisers) and Tom Smith is involved in most things, but will say he is not. Do the searching!

 

Tom Smith wanted Hulls and I put him in touch with my Brother at R&D in Ollerton. Tom turned R&D in to Heritage Hulls and then folded the operation after a year.

 

In September 2005 Andrzej (Dual Polish and British Nationality) became a 20% Shareholder. I had 40% and Trevor 40%.

 

Trevor wanted to sell his share in Amber Boats, Andrzej did not want to take a bigger stake. So he offered it to Tom Smith and Malcolm Burge (NarrowCraft). Narrowcraft had purchased boats that Cascades could not pay for and then became the only company selling Amber Boats. The boats were ordered and delivered to Eversham, but payment was always a problem. Anyway do the seaching on the reason for that!

 

I had stated to Trevor any many people that I would not be any company that Tom Smith was in!

 

Tom promised Trevor a better deal and so the deal was done between them.

 

They had to get rid of me?

 

But I know when to go = resigned from Amber Ltd in June 2006.

 

Amber Ltd sold the Polish Co for 100GBP which was not paid? To Andrzej

 

Amber Boats (UK) Ltd was formed by Tom and Andrzej in August 2006.

 

Amber Boats Ltd was wound up owing UK VAT of several thousand pounds. But they stated it did not have any assets?

 

It was purchased back from the Nottingham Receiver.

 

Anyway to cut a long story short, the VAT office arte investigating. The Polish Gdansk Court is investigating and so lets see what they find.

 

Thanks for letting me tell a little part of a big story.

 

But for legal reasons at the moment, it is not finished.

 

The designs are my creations, the names were created by me and they are surving longer than I did.

 

Keep reading and keep the network alive,

 

bye from Poland

[carlt]

Thanks for that Paul. Like I said in the other thread there are two sides to every story (and, knowing neither party, I wouldn't take either side).

 

I just hope in all this bickering and arguing, the only losers are the vat man, and not people (rather foolishly, imho) putting money into a venture with a shaky start, with unresolved legal issues and trouble with the vat man and expecting to get a boat at the end of it.

 

Too many of these international boat building projects seem to be hitting problems of all kinds to make it worth the risk.