Amber Boats

[AllanW]

Paul

 

I was the member who first asked the questions about Amber Boats here on this forum

 

Thanks for taking the time to post a comprehensive account of the company

 

I'll still be considering a Polish built boat when the time comes - but I can see that I am going to have to be careful...

 

Do you sell your boats exclusively through Narrowboat Sales Ltd at Alvecote Marina?

 

Thanks again - and good luck whatever the future holds!

 

Allan

[AllanW]

What have I started?

 

I only asked if anyone knew this company, and I think there's now 3 threads on this!

 

Forum Moderators - do you want to tidy all these loose ends up into a single thread?

 

Allan

[Paul Geary]

Paul

 

I was the member who first asked the questions about Amber Boats here on this forum

 

Thanks for taking the time to post a comprehensive account of the company

 

I'll still be considering a Polish built boat when the time comes - but I can see that I am going to have to be careful...

 

Do you sell your boats exclusively through Narrowboat Sales Ltd at Alvecote Marina?

 

Thanks again - and good luck whatever the future holds!

 

Allan

 

Hi Allan

 

The Narrowcraft Sp Zoo factory in Poalnd is owned by NarrowCraft Ltd in UK = Part of the Alvecote Marina Operation.

 

So yes, all the Sales are handled by Narrowcraft, see www.narrowcraft.co.uk for info and factory pics etc.

 

The Boats built in Poland by all the Companies are to a high standard and they have become real value for money.

 

So go and visit the UK demonstartion boats at each operation and make up your own mind.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[anhar]

Thanks for that Paul. Like I said in the other thread there are two sides to every story (and, knowing neither party, I wouldn't take either side).

 

I just hope in all this bickering and arguing, the only losers are the vat man, and not people (rather foolishly, imho) putting money into a venture with a shaky start, with unresolved legal issues and trouble with the vat man and expecting to get a boat at the end of it.

 

Too many of these international boat building projects seem to be hitting problems of all kinds to make it worth the risk.

I don't think there are two sides to every story Carl. That popular saying is not always true and provides a cop-out for guilty parties when it comes to people buying expensive things like boats when I'm inclined to believe in general that when people end up with problems and tell us about it, there is usually only one side, the buyer's. In fact numerous stories in life are completely one sided when it comes to people spending money on things. All those people with nightmare tales of cowboy builders working on their homes for instance. No two sides there.

 

As for Polish boats, the whole messy background of Amber etc. would put me off completely. The messages here from those involved in the saga serve only to make it all much worse in my eyes. Personally I'd go with Aqualine/New Boat Co. if I was going Polish which I nearly did. They don't appear to have any difficulties as far as I know. And the boats are fine too.

 

regards

Steve

Edited June 6, 2007 by anhar

[carlt]

I don't think there are two sides to every story Carl. That popular saying is not always true and provides a cop-out for guilty parties when it comes to people buying expensive things like boats when I'm inclined to believe in general that when people end up with problems and tell us about it, there is usually only one side, the buyer's. In fact numerous stories in life are completely one sided when it comes to people spending money on things. All those people with nightmare tales of cowboy builders working on their homes for instance. No two sides there.

On the contrary Steve, there are always two sides but usually only one side telling the truth. As I said, I know neither party, so believe neither party. We've heard both sides now, I've no idea who the 'honest' businessman is nor do I care, as long as someone doesn't lose every penny making the wrong choice.

 

I would also say that there are enough crooked brit builders out there to convince me that if I can't cruise out of the marina 5 minutes after handing over the moolah, I wouldn't buy the boat. That means no new build ever, unless it's a cancelled order that's completed, or I've built it myself.

[Jon]

Two topics merged.

 

May I suggest that any further debate on the legal ownership / trading of the companies in question is saved for the private arena and not debated publically any further. I am leaving both posts in place to ensure impartiality and that both sides of the story have been told.

 

Jon

[anhar]

On the contrary Steve, there are always two sides but usually only one side telling the truth. As I said, I know neither party, so believe neither party. We've heard both sides now, I've no idea who the 'honest' businessman is nor do I care, as long as someone doesn't lose every penny making the wrong choice.

 

I would also say that there are enough crooked brit builders out there to convince me that if I can't cruise out of the marina 5 minutes after handing over the moolah, I wouldn't buy the boat. That means no new build ever, unless it's a cancelled order that's completed, or I've built it myself.

Indeed there are many rogue Brit boat builders as we've heard so often in this forum. However this discussion is not, at least in my mind, about Polish (or other foreign) versus Brit, it is about reliable canal boat builders/suppliers from wherever the boats originate. And the convoluted messy Amber history of failed companies etc. definitely leaves a bad taste which must put people off, not because it's Polish but because it shows serious previous problems. As I say the Aqualine/NBC boats are Polish and don't have this background.

 

As a side issue, the expression "two sides to every story" does not mean that one side tells the truth and the other lies. It means that both parties are culpable, have valid grievances against the other, so that impartial onlookers cannot necessarily accept just one side as being correct. As I commented though, the expression is often untrue especially when it concerns people suffering at the hands of crooks, con artists or appallingly poor quality. In such cases most of us will accept the word of the customer, the guy who has suffered as a result of such people and feel no sympathy at all for the suppliers and don't need to hear the other side.

 

regards

Steve

Edited June 6, 2007 by anhar

[carlt]

As a side issue, the expression "two sides to every story" does not mean that one side tells the truth and the other lies. It means that both parties are culpable, have valid grievances against the other, so that impartial onlookers cannot necessarily accept just one side as being correct. As I commented though, the expression is often untrue especially when it concerns people suffering at the hands of crooks, con artists or appallingly poor quality. In such cases most of us will accept the word of the customer, the guy who has suffered as a result of such people and feel no sympathy at all for the suppliers and don't need to hear the other side.

 

regards

Steve

Yeah ok Steve. Thank goodness there's never such a thing as a bad customer to prove you wrong.

[anhar]

Yeah ok Steve. Thank goodness there's never such a thing as a bad customer to prove you wrong.

In general the preponderance of bad suppliers must be hugely greater than that of lousy customers. You don't prove me wrong by demonstrating that there are bad customers because what I claimed was that the statement about "two sides" was not always true. That means that I acknowledge that sometimes it is true. But people reel off the two sides cliché far too glibly and frequently thus making the customer's case appear weaker when it very likely does not deserve it.

 

I am pretty sure that if we're talking about canal boats, that in most cases complaints by customers of poor quality work, builders going bust and the rest of it are in most cases entirely true and there is no valid defence from the builder. If I'm right it follows that the customer should be given the benefit of the doubt and not have the "two sides" comment thrown at them when we don't know the facts and yet the odds are hugely in the likelihood that the complainant is 100% in the right. It merely adds insult to injury for some poor bastard who has been shafted by a dodgy builder and then tells us the story, to be told there are "two sides" to it.

 

regards

Steve

Edited June 6, 2007 by anhar

[carlt]

In general the preponderance of bad suppliers must be hugely greater than that of lousy customers. You don't prove me wrong by demonstrating that there are bad customers because what I claimed was that the statement about "two sides" was not always true. That means that I acknowledge that sometimes it is true. But people reel off the two sides cliché far too glibly and frequently thus making the customer's case appear weaker when it very likely does not deserve it.

 

I am pretty sure that if we're talking about canal boats, that in most cases complaints by customers of poor quality work, builders going bust and the rest of it are in most cases entirely true and there is no valid defence from the builder. If I'm right it follows that the customer should be given the benefit of the doubt and not have the "two sides" comment thrown at them when we don't know the facts and yet the odds are hugely in the likelihood that the complainant is 100% in the right. It merely adds insult to injury for some poor bastard who has been shafted by a dodgy builder and then tells us the story, to be told there are "two sides" to it.

 

regards

Steve

And when the 'two sides' are two businessmen? No customers involved here, just two folk bickering. Both probably think they are 'right' and, if anyone still wishes to deal with them, they must listen to the 'two sides' to this story, and make their own mind up.

[anhar]

And when the 'two sides' are two businessmen? No customers involved here, just two folk bickering. Both probably think they are 'right' and, if anyone still wishes to deal with them, they must listen to the 'two sides' to this story, and make their own mind up.

If you are now talking specifically about the messy Amber history, then I would agree that outsiders cannot really know the truth and this is a case where may well be "two sides". Whatever, the whole historical saga must put buyers off. It certainly would me if I was still in the market.

 

But you've now gone round in a circle and are proving my point, which is that not all stories warrant the accusation of having two sides. When you toss out this expression gratuitously you are thereby asserting that all stories have two sides (because the saying is "there are two sides to every story ) when quite obviously a great many in life do not. Moreover it is usually clear which kind of story is likely to have only one side, whilst others are more nebulous and may have two.

 

For example those with only one side would include the kind I mentioned earlier of people suffering from poor quality or just crooked suppliers whether boats, builders/plumbers or whatever. Mostly, the customer has the only side in such circumstances I'd say. Other types of story may well have two sides, eg. business disputes, divorces and the like where matters of fact are clouded by emotion, opinion and other subjective matters.

 

My point really is that it is wrong for readers here to claim that there always two sides to every story and particularly where it concerns poor quality and rogue firms. The cliché is so often inaccurate especially in such cases that it should not be used. Imagine if you had a duff boat, or if you had not boat at all, after putting up a load of money, perhaps all the money you have. You come on here to tell the tale, maybe to warn others, and someone levels the "two sides" comment at you. You would be livid and rightly so. Or at least I would.

 

Really all I'm claiming is that this popular saying is false. So many stories simply don't have two sides that it shouldn't be used much and particularly in the type of story that is not likely to have more than one side.

 

regards

Steve

Edited June 6, 2007 by anhar

[carlt]

If you are now talking specifically about the messy Amber history, then I would agree that outsiders cannot really know the truth and this is a case where may well be "two sides". Whatever, the whole historical saga must put buyers off. It certainly would me if I was still in the market.

 

But you've now gone round in a circle and are proving my point, which is that not all stories warrant the accusation of having two sides. When you toss out this expression gratuitously you are thereby asserting that all stories have two sides (because the saying is "there are two sides to every story ) when quite obviously a great many in life do not. Moreover it is usually clear which kind of story is likely to have only one side, whilst others are more nebulous and may have two.

 

For example those with only one side would include the kind I mentioned earlier of people suffering from poor quality or just crooked suppliers whether boats, builders/plumbers or whatever. Mostly, the customer has the only side in such circumstances I'd say. Other types of story may well have two sides, eg. business disputes, divorces and the like where matters of fact are clouded by emotion, opinion and other subjective matters.

 

My point really is that it is wrong for readers here to claim that there always two sides to every story and particularly where it concerns poor quality and rogue firms. The cliché is so often inaccurate especially in such cases that it should not be used. Imagine if you had a duff boat, or if you had not boat at all, after putting up a load of money, perhaps all the money you have. You come on here to tell the tale, maybe to warn others, and someone levels the "two sides" comment at you. You would be livid and rightly so. Or at least I would.

 

regards

Steve

Steve you are absolutely 100% correct!

[anhar]

Steve you are absolutely 100% correct!

Now I don't know whether you are merely taking the french Carl, whether it was ironic or you mean that comment.

 

I've found that ever since I got divorced, I have to do my own irony.

 

regards

Steve

Edited June 6, 2007 by anhar

[carlt]

Now I don't know whether you are merely taking the french Carl, whether it was ironic or you mean that comment.

 

I've found that ever since I got divorced, I have to do my own irony.

 

regards

Steve

I don't necessarily agree with you, I'm just afraid of completely losing the will to live if I continue with the debate.

[smileypete]

Amber Boats was started in 2002 by a guy called Paul Geary and he was funded by a UK investor. One of my companies was approached by Geary, who had heard that we were looking for 20-30 new boats for our own fleet.

 

I'd be interested to know which company this was.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited June 6, 2007 by smileypete

[jmoss]

I bought an Amber boat a few months ago. Never have I spent so much money and been so unhappy and disappointed with the product. Even more disappointed that after writing with my complaints I received no response After 2 weeks sent another copy by registered post. A week later still no response. I have had issues with the boat that I do not think should have ever happened

[blackrose]

I bought an Amber boat a few months ago. Never have I spent so much money and been so unhappy and disappointed with the product. Even more disappointed that after writing with my complaints I received no response After 2 weeks sent another copy by registered post. A week later still no response. I have had issues with the boat that I do not think should have ever happened

 

Sorry to hear about your problems. Was it a sailaway or fully fitted? What sort of problems have you had?

 

Although some of the boats at the lower end of the mid-range market are decent enough, unfortunately many seem to lack any quality control in production and leave it up to the customer to make warranty claims instead. I wonder if these builders ever stop to think about the time and energy they spend in either avoiding or completing warranty work and whether this could be offset by a better quality control regime? I suspect most don't and in the end they shoot themselves in the foot with this short-term thinking and it just gets them a bad name, quite unnecessarily in my opinion, because they basically have a good product which is let down by poor QC. I visited Amber boats at one of the shows last year and they looked pretty good to me.

 

Perhaps, if they fail to respond you could visit them at Crick next weekend...? They won't like that.

Edited May 16, 2008 by blackrose

[bargeeboy]

It's easy to sell the boat then hope that as they sail into the sunset you will never hear from them again.

 

An example being the Consortium (yes we started the shared owner consortioums in the 80's) that commissioned their first new boat from us in 1988. In 1994 the reduced members (now 3) purchased a new boat (Three Wat Cut). Last year the remaining 2 members commisioned an new Classic and we were able to Broker Tree Way Cut and they were returned the same money they paid for it. The new boat is now 1 year old and has left us for the summer. Give them a wave its called FOURSOME (2 members but 4 people)

 

No body plans for problems but with the now fast moving and competitive world of Narrowboat construction new materials and methods are tried and sometimes they do not work. It is the builders reaction to these that make a good builder stand out.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Liam
Due to reasons pointed out in PM.

[Gary Peacock]

Warranty work is a necessary pain for all builders but not an excuse to ignore it.

 

The main problem we have is distance especially with boats outside the UK you either have to travel to do the work which is expensive and time consuming or subcontract the work which can often still be expensive and sometimes risky if the third party messes up.

 

I have often thought there might be a gap in the market for someone with the necessary skills to set up a business to carry out warranty work for builders.

 

One of the biggest pains we suffer is that although the equipment manufacturers increasingly offer longer warranties on their equipment and goods the warranty is still in reality between the customer and builder so if the manufacturer warranty doesn't live up to their claims the builder is left to sort out the mess.

 

We seem to spend an awful lot of time trying to get warranty issues sorted with quite major suppliers who can have a very open ended definition of their warranty and responsibility's.

 

I think I would pop and see the builder at Crick.

[blackrose]

Bargee, your posts are blatant advertising and as such contravene forum rules.

 

Why don't you take a leaf out of Gary's book? I'm sure some business comes his way as a result of his forum membership, but he never blows his own horn in the way you have done.

 

That's the only way that a commercial operator can operate on the forum in my opinion.

Edited May 19, 2008 by blackrose

[tomsk]

If you are now talking specifically about the messy Amber history, then I would agree that outsiders cannot really know the truth and this is a case where may well be "two sides". Whatever, the whole historical saga must put buyers off. It certainly would me if I was still in the market.

 

But you've now gone round in a circle and are proving my point, which is that not all stories warrant the accusation of having two sides. When you toss out this expression gratuitously you are thereby asserting that all stories have two sides (because the saying is "there are two sides to every story ) when quite obviously a great many in life do not. Moreover it is usually clear which kind of story is likely to have only one side, whilst others are more nebulous and may have two.

 

For example those with only one side would include the kind I mentioned earlier of people suffering from poor quality or just crooked suppliers whether boats, builders/plumbers or whatever. Mostly, the customer has the only side in such circumstances I'd say. Other types of story may well have two sides, eg. business disputes, divorces and the like where matters of fact are clouded by emotion, opinion and other subjective matters.

 

My point really is that it is wrong for readers here to claim that there always two sides to every story and particularly where it concerns poor quality and rogue firms. The cliché is so often inaccurate especially in such cases that it should not be used. Imagine if you had a duff boat, or if you had not boat at all, after putting up a load of money, perhaps all the money you have. You come on here to tell the tale, maybe to warn others, and someone levels the "two sides" comment at you. You would be livid and rightly so. Or at least I would.

 

Really all I'm claiming is that this popular saying is false. So many stories simply don't have two sides that it shouldn't be used much and particularly in the type of story that is not likely to have more than one side.

 

regards

Steve

 

Petty post, an exercise in hair-splitting and semantics

 

 

Bargee, your posts are blatant advertising and as such contravene forum rules.

 

Why don't you take a leaf out of Gary's book? I'm sure some business comes his way as a result of his forum membership, but he never blows his own horn in the way you have done.

 

That's the only way that a commercial operator can operate on the forum in my opinion.

[Liam]

Let's play nicely, please

[tomsk]

Let's play nicely, please

 

 

Noted and agreed

[parasal]

Sorry to interupt the bickering but I have recently purchased an Amber sailaway and apart from a few bits that are being sorted I am very pleased with it, especially for the price! Its just being finished fitted out and the boat builders seem fairly impressed too...still early days but remain pleased for now!

 

Now...back to the proper discussion..

[jmoss]

Joy at last, a response from Amber assuring me that all will be resolved