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EA & canal windlass sizes


MikeHing

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Hoping to cruise the rivers  Nene, Great Ouse & Middle Levels this summer.

I am having difficulty getting details of the lock windlass' we will need. I have read somewhere that the Ouse windlass is special in that the lock spindles have a shroud that makes the use of a canal type windlass impossible.

I have got a Middle Level windlass now and also bought what was sold as a Nene & Great Ouse short throw windlass. However this Nene & Great Ouse windlass has identical cut outs to my standard canal windlass!

I also now have an EA Abloy key for the control boxes. Any other keys needed?

Any information on this would be gratefully received. 

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It was a days notice when I went through a couple of years back i.e. called up late afternoon to get through the next morning.

As others have said there's a key you could have for the lock at March, but I wouldn't bother just go around / over the fence

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So as far as windlasses are concerned you need the special "Ouse key" (what you have described as a middle level windlass) for Ashline lock at Whittlesea on the ML. This lock is unattended. 

So far as the Ouse is concerned (St Ives and upstream) an ordinary canal windlass is fine (as you have discovered!). Ditto the Nene. Note however that paddles are called slackers.

Nearly all the guillotine gates on both river systems (and the pointing doors on the Ely Ouse system) are electrically operated, for which you need the EA Abloy key (plus a spare?) to open the control cabinet. The manual guillotines on the Nene also need an Abloy key.  Ditto the one lock that you might do on the Cam Conservators waters. That key also does water points etc on the Nene and Ouse.  

There is a yale key (which you can buy at Stanground) that gives you access to the water point etc at March, and to the lock compound at Ashline (though if you are tall like me you can simply step over the fence). You would also need it if you want to visit Holme Fen, the lowest point in England, as that means going through the lock near Ramsey where the top gates (I mean doors) are chained together (for rather complex but quite logical reasons!).

Hope that helps. 

PS have you joined GOBA (Great Ouse Boating Assocation) and FOTRN (Friends of the River Nene) who both provide some very fine rural mooring spots.

Edited by Scholar Gypsy
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Thanks all, that is exactly the information am looking for. I am a little annoyed that I have gone and spent £20 on a so called Ouse windlass only to find out it is the same as the numerous canal windlass' I already have.

I have joined GOBA.

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1 hour ago, MikeHing said:

Thanks all, that is exactly the information am looking for. I am a little annoyed that I have gone and spent £20 on a so called Ouse windlass only to find out it is the same as the numerous canal windlass' I already have.

I have joined GOBA.

I feel sure that my standard canal windlass didn't fit them all but my Middle Level one did, I am not even sure thats a genuine ML one as I bought it from Mr Mac on a WRG stand for a quid.

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19 hours ago, sirweste said:

It was a days notice when I went through a couple of years back i.e. called up late afternoon to get through the next morning.

As others have said there's a key you could have for the lock at March, but I wouldn't bother just go around / over the fence

Getting a bit confused about locks and keys!  There is no lock with a fence at March, but there is a lock which needs a key - on the sanitary station door.  There is also a quay, but that hasn't got a lock. :rolleyes:

The Middle Level windlass is designed to fit recessed spindles.  (Sorry, haven't got a pic to hand ATM.)

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3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I feel sure that my standard canal windlass didn't fit them all but my Middle Level one did, I am not even sure thats a genuine ML one as I bought it from Mr Mac on a WRG stand for a quid.

I'd forgotten about Offord, where you do need to get out the Ouse key (windlass) I think ....

On March, to add to Mac of Cygnet's point, I think if you want to use the pumpout (not that I have one) you have to moor on the quay, go into the town to buy a pre-payment card, move the boat over to the services quay, unlock the pumpout station with the Yale key, and then use the pumpout. This is because you can't get access to the town from the services quay ...

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32 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

Getting a bit confused about locks and keys!  There is no lock with a fence at March, but there is a lock which needs a key - on the sanitary station door.  There is also a quay, but that hasn't got a lock. :rolleyes:

The Middle Level windlass is designed to fit recessed spindles.  (Sorry, haven't got a pic to hand ATM.)

You're right - sorry of the confusions's. I'm referring to Whittlesey lock, which is fenced. I should have remembered as the sharp bend after this is the one and only place I have fallen in.

Edited by sirweste
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21 hours ago, pearley said:

The Middle Level one will fit the Great Oust spindles perfectly ok.

A Middle Level Yale type key to access the s/stn at March and the gates at Ashland Lock.

It will fit the spindles but when we came up from Peterborough with a boat off the Middle levels, that only had a middle level windlass though that it was a bit rubbish that on the Nene that you could only do half a turn before it fouled on the beam.  There had no other idea that there was any other short of windlass!!!!!  On the Nene you just want a normal windless, not the special one for the Middle Levels as they are too long.

On the Neve you will need a Abloy key of the locks and the services, and on the Middle Level there is their own Yale key for the one lock and the services in March.  The lock keeper at Stangroud will sell you thew indlass and a key for I think £17.

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1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

Any chance of somebody producing a decent list with pictures rather than a description?

Ouse key (for the Middle level) here, from an earlier thread. Photo by Mac of Cygnet.

 ykxIRVU.jpg

 

Abloy key, similar to this:  classickey.gif

 

Yale key and standard windlass: I don't think you need that...

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Here's one of the slackers at Ashline Lock. Tje spindle is vertical and fully enclosed in the white collar, which is why a  normal windlass won't work.

And before anyone tells me off for leaving the windlass on the spindle, there is absolutely no chance of the handle whizzing round of its own accord!DSCF8393.JPG.6576203f171d4f8c6c3f07e8079275b1.JPG

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PS the MIL Commissioners publish a useful booklet that explains how things work. It should be available here, but the link is currently broken. I have reported this, so with luck it will be repaired shortly. You will be given a hard copy when you arrive at Stanground.

https://middlelevel.gov.uk/navigation/

And maps here:

https://middlelevel.gov.uk/navigation/maps/

Edited by Scholar Gypsy
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18 hours ago, john6767 said:

It will fit the spindles but when we came up from Peterborough with a boat off the Middle levels, that only had a middle level windlass though that it was a bit rubbish that on the Nene that you could only do half a turn before it fouled on the beam.  There had no other idea that there was any other short of windlass!!!!!  On the Nene you just want a normal windless, not the special one for the Middle Levels as they are too long.

On the Neve you will need a Abloy key of the locks and the services, and on the Middle Level there is their own Yale key for the one lock and the services in March.  The lock keeper at Stangroud will sell you thew indlass and a key for I think £17.

I did only state the ML windlass fits the Great Ouse spindles.

For the Nene we use a standard canal one.

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5 hours ago, pearley said:

I did only state the ML windlass fits the Great Ouse spindles.

For the Nene we use a standard canal one.

It does also fit the Nene ones, although a bit loosely I think, but it is mainly that the throw it too long to really use it.  We did not make it to the Great Ouse, is the paddle gear different to the Nene?

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36 minutes ago, john6767 said:

It does also fit the Nene ones, although a bit loosely I think, but it is mainly that the throw it too long to really use it.  We did not make it to the Great Ouse, is the paddle gear different to the Nene?

It's a mixture. Most of it is pretty similar to the Nene, with similar gearboxes etc. But there is still some old gear (dating from the 1960s I think) where the Middle level / Ouse key still fits best. (Eaton Socon, Offord).

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