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17 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Incidently they have also suggested Victron battery monitor (with a 2nd battery voltage only option-what ever that means) and a Victron 16A Galvanic isolator. I`ve a Victron inverter and separate Victron charger.

It means it will measure the voltage only of a second battery (engine start), whilst able to measure the voltage and current from the house bank,and Calculate SOC etc (depending on model) 

Edited by rusty69
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8 minutes ago, jddevel said:

I had a moment!!!!! Can any of you relate to this Mmmmmm. Anyway the batteries they are recommending are AtlasBX 31-950 hope this time I`ve made sense.

100Ah gel batts. http://www.atlasbx.co.kr/en/product/marine01.jsp

Yeah, they'll be fine as long as you set up your charging voltages suitably (lower than wet lead-acid). 

5 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Incidently they have also suggested Victron battery monitor (with a 2nd battery voltage only option-what ever that means) and a Victron 16A Galvanic isolator. I`ve a Victron inverter and separate Victron charger.

'They' sound like Onboard Energy ;)

You should certainly have battery monitoring. Whether or not you choose Victron is a personal choice. 

The '2nd battery' bit is to monitor the voltage only (that's all you need) of the engine battery. 

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5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

100Ah gel batts. http://www.atlasbx.co.kr/en/product/marine01.jsp

Yeah, they'll be fine as long as you set up your charging voltages suitably (lower than wet lead-acid). 

'They' sound like Onboard Energy ;)

You should certainly have battery monitoring. Whether or not you choose Victron is a personal choice. 

The '2nd battery' bit is to monitor the voltage only (that's all you need) of the engine battery. 

I have. When the batteries are going flat the lights go dim. The OP does not appear to be a live-aboard.

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47 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

I have. When the batteries are going flat the lights go dim. The OP does not appear to be a live-aboard.

The first bit works fine for some boaters who don't care too much about battery life. I don't see the relevance of the second bit. 

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I'd certainly say you won't go far wrong with the Victron kit and you're already familiar with the brand so I expect you appreciate the quality.  You can choose whether it's worth paying a bit more for the BM to also monitor your starter battery voltage. I didn't, because the starter battery is such a low duty item with its own dedicated alternator with charging lamp. Not only will there be the usual symptoms (sluggish starter motor) if it's not holding charge, but it's not critical either since the engine can be jump started from the well-monitored domestic bank in the event of it suddenly and unexpectedly running too flat to start it. That said, being able to check the starter battery voltage with a few button presses is no bad thing.

My own personal view is that gel batteries are an unnecessary extra expense in a Narrowboat, since one of the key advantages you're paying a hefty premium for is that they can happily function at any lean angle - which a Narrowboat certainly won't!  If you are convinced you need the other advantages they bring, the non-gel AGM batteries will give you those at a lower cost. I subscribe to the school of thought that batteries are a disposable item and go with sealed wet leisure batteries of reasonable repute for my (up to 3 months at a time) recreational use. Any 10 boaters asked would probably come up with a dozen different answers though!  It is, however, a truism that you can ruin a set of expensive batteries just as quickly as a cheap set by a poor charging regime, and that, coupled with getting 8 years out of my last set of Numax, swings it for me. I do see the attraction of traction or semi-traction batteries in the right application - but remember that truism and consider whether you fully understand what is a good charging regime before shelling out.

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On 25/04/2017 at 14:36, jddevel said:

I had a moment!!!!! Can any of you relate to this Mmmmmm. Anyway the batteries they are recommending are AtlasBX 31-950 hope this time I`ve made sense.



 

 

The thing is, you have posted none of the information necessary for any of us to give you an informed opinion. You haven't even stated whether these are for domestic or engine bank, or how many they are suggesting!

Others have said they are a reasonable make and model of battery but whether they will do the job for you is anyone's guess. Can you post more detail please? Are you going to be a CC liveaboard or is this boat going to live in a marina 11 months of the year? Or something in between? An can you post an energy audit please?

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I must admit "Mike" that my lack of detailed information is very unhelpful to those trying to assist. A very human failing of mine-I know what I`m thinking and expect others to know too. It`s to be a leisure only craft which will be in a marina when not in use but out exploring when we`re on board. Unfortunately whilst quite happy with the bare essentials of life myself my wife ideally would like as many of the " home comforts" as possible. This probably stems from the fact that she does all the washing and cooking and cleaning. I know for the ladies male chauvinism!!!!!! So washing machine, microwave and fridge-all 240 volts are installed. Have hopefully attended to problems with washing machine with a mixing valve. Considering using a small inverter just for the fridge as I read somewhere that this was used by a contributor linked in someway to the thermostat when it called for operation. ( My local marine engineer not sure how this works so jury out)  Vitron 3000 and separate Vitron charger. Space for 5 leisure batteries and no possibility of fitting a travel power alternator as engine is only a Beta 38 and advised by Beta not possible. Still researching solar which as we will be "summer travellers" really makes sense but totally unfamiliar with any type of set-up. Looking at cheaper AGM batteries at the moment due to lack of current battery management expertise.

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The OP initially forgot to mention the battery manufacturer or type,  so I was referring to the need to use a crystal ball to ascertain the batteries he was referring to.

Sorry for being obtuse  :P

Edited by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect.
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26 minutes ago, jddevel said:

I must admit "Mike" that my lack of detailed information is very unhelpful to those trying to assist. A very human failing of mine-I know what I`m thinking and expect others to know too. It`s to be a leisure only craft which will be in a marina when not in use but out exploring when we`re on board. Unfortunately whilst quite happy with the bare essentials of life myself my wife ideally would like as many of the " home comforts" as possible. This probably stems from the fact that she does all the washing and cooking and cleaning. I know for the ladies male chauvinism!!!!!! So washing machine, microwave and fridge-all 240 volts are installed. Have hopefully attended to problems with washing machine with a mixing valve. Considering using a small inverter just for the fridge as I read somewhere that this was used by a contributor linked in someway to the thermostat when it called for operation. ( My local marine engineer not sure how this works so jury out)  Vitron 3000 and separate Vitron charger. Space for 5 leisure batteries and no possibility of fitting a travel power alternator as engine is only a Beta 38 and advised by Beta not possible. Still researching solar which as we will be "summer travellers" really makes sense but totally unfamiliar with any type of set-up. Looking at cheaper AGM batteries at the moment due to lack of current battery management expertise.

I'd go for a 12v fridge if you can stretch to the cost. A fridge is a pretty important thing and if it's reliant on an inverter, the chances of having a warm fridge and mouldy food is increased, although to be fair a decent inverter should be pretty reliable. The other stuff you describe is less important and doesn't need to be used 24/7.

When looking at inverters, be sure to check out the idle power consumption which is very variable. We have a Mastervolt Combi that uses about 0.75A when idling, and that is not in any sort of power saving mode. I think Victrons use more unless you go for the power saving modes, which can be problematic. Small, cheap inverters can use more power idling than a top notch big one.

For monitoring, the Victron BMV is fine as an AH counter but the addition of a Smartgauge will allow you keep an eye on your batteries' capacity (recent issues with calibration not withstanding).

For a leisure boat I'd be inclined to start with ordinary leisure batteries, maybe go for AGM once you have got the general idea about looking after batteries.

Solar is great if you intend to spend days tied up, but most people using their boats only for leisure tend to cruise every day so perhaps the roof clutter and ugliness isn't justified for your needs.

 

edit: just checked the datasheets, the Victron 3000 inverter uses 20w doing nothing. Our 2500 Mastervolt Combi uses <9w. So the Victron left on permanently will use >20AH per day more. Why would you want to buy a Victron?

Edited by nicknorman
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I would emphasise the good sense Nick posted above, especially about starting with cheap batteries while you get to grips with looking after them and the Smartguage comments if you are not well versed in using the ammeter and voltmeter functions on the amp hour counter thing to gauge when to stop charging and estimating the state of charge/depth of discharge.

I have just ordered another 100 watts of solar specifically so we can remain tied up for a day or two without running the engine - hot water via the Alde. I all depends how you end up using your boat.

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How much solar??? - As a guide - I have 450W of solar mounted flat.  We use a 240v fridge from an inverter that only uses 1.2W in standby and 16W when working.  We have LED lights and an LED TV that is on for upto 2 hours, so we do not use a lot of battery power.  On sunny summer days without running the engine the batteries are basically full by lunch.

Of course if you try running heavy power devices from the batteries for any length of time then you may need a lot more solar.  It's all about managing your usage.

Added - the inverter figures obviously exclude the power consumed by the device, but if you say the fridge runs 40% of the time, then the inverter losses will be about 15AHrs.  Which for us is easily managed.

Edited by Chewbacka
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