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Dave Payne

Licence review email

24 posts in this topic

Different licence costs for fat boats v skinny boats?

Different licence costs for leisure boaters v live aboards?

Sounds ropy to me!

 

Boat licence review

Hello, 

In February the Canal & River Trust set out plans to review boat licensing. The aim of the review is to ask boaters the fairest and simplest way to split the important financial contribution made by the different types of boats and boaters towards the upkeep of the waterways.

The first stage has been telephone interviews with representatives from the main boating organisations to find out their views on how the consultation should work and what it should cover. The telephone interviews have been carried out by Involve, an independent charity specialising in public engagement. You can read the summary report of these interviews here
 
For the second stage of the review, Involve will host a series of in-depth workshops with boaters across the country. We want to ensure that participants will reflect the diversity in the boating community so we’re inviting all boaters who would be interested in attending one of the workshops to register their interest.

If you'd be interested in attending one of the workshops please complete this short online form no later than 30 April.
 
We cannot guarantee you a place but Involve will try and allocate places for different interest groups at each workshop. If you are not offered a place, please be assured that you will still be able to have your say on the detailed licence review proposals when we consult on these later in the summer and autumn.

Best wishes,
Amanda Crosland
Business Support & Licensing Manager

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There is going to be a big mismatch between boaters and CRT.  CRT will see this as a way of increasing revenue - I am not aware of any great concerns over fairness with the current system, other than those that moor for long periods without paying for a mooring, but that is not a licence concern, more a mooring concern.

Anyway I don't want other styles of boats to mine to pay more, though I would not object to me paying less, but then that is not going to happen.  I suspect this is going to be a further screw turning on the continuous cruisers that don't cruse much in areas like the K&A and London.

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I got the email, went into the survey and then found all of the workshops were during the Monday to Friday working week, so that is me out as I cannot take time off for this.  I would have thought that this Involve group would have thought of the problems that would give people?

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I too got the email. I have completed the questionnaire, so hopefully will be invited to one of the workshops.

I wonder if they will have workshops for like minded people,  or whether they will deliberately mix up the participants? 

My understanding is that the outcome is to be cost neutral,  so no immediate increase in revenue. However if costs for widebeam or liveaboards increase proportionally, than it will ultimately increase CRT's revenue as these are the "growth areas" of boating.

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I must have missed the bit where CRT said it was to be cost neutral, I assumed it was to increase revenue.  So that would mean that if the fees go up for some, for others they will reduce.  I don't see that happening.

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So liveaboards could pay more, even if they have a mooring, but folks who dump.their boats on visitor moorings for 14 days at a time and shift it to the next nearest VM for the next two weeks (but don't live on board) pay less. 

Methinks some input is needed into this.

The fact that there has been NO complaints or negative feedback about the present licencing system, other than that from the IWA senior cartel, is obviously irrelevant to the neutral, unbiased, and completely "open to suggestions" Involve , who have probably been paid a fortune of licencing fees to carry out this flawed from the start consultation.

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2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

So liveaboards could pay more, even if they have a mooring, but folks who dump.their boats on visitor moorings for 14 days at a time and shift it to the next nearest VM for the next two weeks (but don't live on board) pay less. 

Methinks some input is needed into this.

The fact that there has been NO complaints or negative feedback about the present licencing system, other than that from the IWA senior cartel, is obviously irrelevant to the neutral, unbiased, and completely "open to suggestions" Involve , who have probably been paid a fortune of licencing fees to carry out this flawed from the start consultation.

And how will anyone know if you are a full time liveaboard unless you are one of those numpties with a " RBOA " sticker in yer window :rolleyes: or how long you use the boat each year etc etc. What if you have a mooring when renew your licence then cc later then maybe cc then get a mooring etc etc there are so many scenarios I cannot see how fairness will ever be part of it. I am just hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

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40 minutes ago, PeterG said:

  I would have thought that this Involve group would have thought of the problems that would give people?

I would think that they have thought about how this will diminish the numbers able to attend -- and then concluded how very desirable that would be! 

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Just now, PhilAtterley said:

I would think that they have thought about how this will diminish the numbers able to attend -- and then concluded how very desirable that would be! 

Surely if its imortant to people then a day off is obtainable? Obviously I can go as I am my own boss but will it realy make any difference? I doubt it, I reckon they are already fully aware of what they are going to do.

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13 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

And how will anyone know if you are a full time liveaboard unless you are one of those numpties with a " RBOA " sticker in yer window :rolleyes: or how long you use the boat each year etc etc. What if you have a mooring when renew your licence then cc later then maybe cc then get a mooring etc etc there are so many scenarios I cannot see how fairness will ever be part of it. I am just hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

What's wrong with having a RBOA sticker in the window?? Much more sensible than an IWA one or heaven forbid a NTBA one.....come to think about it you don't see many ACC ones these days........

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4 minutes ago, frangar said:

What's wrong with having a RBOA sticker in the window?? Much more sensible than an IWA one or heaven forbid a NTBA one.....come to think about it you don't see many ACC ones these days........

Yes ok a NTBA sticker :o

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52 minutes ago, matty40s said:

NBTA  only give out one sticker, for the towpath side. :P

Nice one!

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To be a liveaboard do you have to live on a boat all year? 

Ian.

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 The result will be a big increase in charges for most of us I bet! - easy by adding a width dimension to the existing fees.

...and will it be extended include charges for using locks, visitors moorings, anglers, cyclists and walkers.

....but 'Balanced' by a couple a reduced charges for a few to create the illusion of 'neutral' and 'fairness'. The finished document detailing the decision logic, if published, will be a masterpiece of obfuscation.

I wonder if the meetings will allow questions on how much CRT spend on themselves (and whether it is justifiable or necessary) in the guise of maintaining the waterways infrastructure.

I have put my name down for a meeting. I have not been contacted by phone.

 

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12 hours ago, PeterG said:

I got the email, went into the survey and then found all of the workshops were during the Monday to Friday working week, so that is me out as I cannot take time off for this.  I would have thought that this Involve group would have thought of the problems that would give people?

Crt and thinking are not a match made in heaven.

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12 hours ago, matty40s said:

NBTA  only give out one sticker, for the towpath side. :P

Apparently it also allows the boat to moor on lock bollards as well. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Reading through the interim report, Involve have stated their remit is only for boaters. They absolve themselves from any influences from problems which are socio economic such as cheap accommodation in expensive areas, or any 'Yooman Rites' issues regarding employment or children's education.

As a charity specialising in 'Public Engagement', they no doubt have their eyes focused on further engagement consultation in those areas. Thus the earning potential is tripled.

I find it hard to treat these exercises with anything but contempt.

Edited by Ex Brummie
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35 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

Reading through the interim report, Involve have stated their remit is only for boaters. They absolve themselves from any influences from problems which are socio economic such as cheap accommodation in expensive areas, or any 'Yooman Rites' issues regarding employment or children's education.

As a charity specialising in 'Public Engagement', they no doubt have their eyes focused on further engagement consultation in those areas. Thus the earning potential is tripled.

I find it hard to treat these exercises with anything but contempt.

I think they are right to do it that way as they can then present the views of what people would like to have as a new system, then CRT can consider how feasible it is considering housing and human rights etc laws.  Of course this is assuming that this is an open & honest survey without a hidden agenda  -  and that is a pretty big assumption.

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Has there been any progress on this any meetings or feed back ?

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On 21 April 2017 at 21:05, ianali said:

To be a liveaboard do you have to live on a boat all year? 

Ian.

How about if you live aboard for 50 weeks of the year and go on a narrowboat holiday for the other 2 weeks?

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I appreciate most boats on the canals are 57 to 60ft narrowboats.

Some of the comments are clearly from full size narrowboat owners who dislike, and wish to deter,  every other sort of boat.

I don't see any suggestions that narrowboats should pay more because  there are so many  of them an increase will result in a good boost in C&RT income.  While at the same time a deterrent to full size narrowboats may decrease  their numbers .  At the same time charging less for smaller boats  will have a small reduction in income as there are so few of them . There may be a resulting increase in numbers of smaller boats.  The combined reduction in numbers of full sized narrowboats and increase in numbers of smaller craft  therefore potentially reducing congestion at moorings.

 

 

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