Electric oven (2.6kw)

[Mohsen]

I'm looking at getting a cooker which has gas hobs, a gas oven and grill but also has an electric oven that would draw up to 2.6kw 230 VAC. The gas would be primary means of cooking but I would like the option of using an electric oven.

Now I don't know much about electrics but if I used the cooker through my 3kw inverter whilst either:

a. Plugged into Shoreline

b. Engine running

Will I damage my inverter, batteries, alternator?

Thanks in advance 

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Mohsen said:

I'm looking at getting a cooker which has gas hobs, a gas oven and grill but also has an electric oven that would draw up to 2.6kw 230 VAC. The gas would be primary means of cooking but I would like the option of using an electric oven.

Now I don't know much about electrics but if I used the cooker through my 3kw inverter whilst either:

a. Plugged into Shoreline

b. Engine running

Will I damage my inverter, batteries, alternator?

Thanks in advance 

Dont go there. simply not a good idea.

[WotEver]

Plugged into shoreline would be ok as long as it's a 16A feed and you don't try and use a kettle/hair dryer/vacuum cleaner at the same time. 

As for the engine, probably not - what size alternator do you have?  

[Chewbacka]

Boats don't have electric ovens for good reasons, houses usually have electric ovens for good reasons, boats are not houses so best you don't do it.

[Robbo]

If you do go for it make sure all the gas outlets have fsd/ffd's as it will be a BSS failure if they don't.

[Mohsen]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Dont go there. simply not a good idea.

Sounds like traditional wisedom but further explanation would be appreciated. 

All the ovens I've looked at have FSD's.

the reason I'm looking at an oven with an auxiliary electric oven is because I haven't used a good gas oven and it would be nice to have an electric oven if plugged into shoreline or if the engine is running.

re: size of alternator, id have to check - what would be sufficient?

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Mohsen said:

re: size of alternator, id have to check - what would be sufficient?

200A?

[Alan de Enfield]

Roll on the Zombie-Apocolypse and the wiping out of these floating-flats, and the destruction of London, maybe then we can then get some sensible boating discussions.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[chubby]

Im rather enjoying , in a car crash TV type way , all these bonkers questions from novices ( not newbies  ... good god how i hate that term ) . When i bought my boat i was , and i still am , a " bit in the dark " about my boats electrics and mechanics but slowly one learns do they not .

Recently tho it seems theres a new generation of idiots who appear to have avoided going to school ...ever . At least , i think they didn t judging by some peoples actions .

Last year there was the lady whos boat was a disaster after failing to use a bit of judgement .

Recently there was an unbelievable thread about two halfwits who didn t even know that thier engine required oil

People wanting to sell houses to buy big widebeams , seemingly on a whim , cos theyve watched too much telly and  seen people living " low cost " or two geriatrics banging hire boats everywhere they go . . 

Now someone wants an electric oven to operate from 12 v batteries despite having gas already available . 

According to government statistics as a nation we must be getting cleverer because each year  more and more folk are getting top grades at GCSE & and head off to university . Are these the same people who think engines don t need oil , or who think its a spiffing idea to buy a boat despite having never ever  been on one ? 

Im expecting in the near future  someone to start a thread asking  why thier sunbed isn t working even tho they fitted brand new batteries just the day before and then this new trend for dunce style questions will have reached its pinnacle . 

I do wonder sometimes how such people exist . 

rant over ..

 

[mross]

Hark at thee!

[Dave_P]

Chubby - we were all newbies once. There's nothing wrong with asking questions like this. That's how we learn!!!

The reality is that running an electric oven on a boat would be fine on hook-up but tricky while cruising. Personally I wouldn't consider it. You'd need a large battery bank and huge alternator, and have the engine running throughout the cooking process. You'd still be stressing your batteries considerably though. 

Alternatively you could get a big 3kw+ generator. With the noise, time limitations and running costs associated.

 

 

 

[dor]

I can remember a few years ago reading about an "all-electric" boat.  This had full size electric cooker, dishwasher, washing machine, tumble drier etc. - just about everything you can think of.  When asked how his batteries were going to cope (he was going cruising not on a landline)  he said "oh I've done all the calculations so it will all work ok; I'm a physics teacher you know. I've got a 150 amp alternator so I can recharge the batteries in an hour or two".

So an education and ,presumably, a reasonable level of intelligence is no guarantee that someone has any common sense.

[Robbo]

I'm planning on getting a Electric oven/microwave, I'm not a newbie.   I don't see the point in having something on the boat like a gas oven that I would hardly use.  I have a built in genny that's powerful enough to power it that needs to be ran everyday in winter anyway.

[Robbo]

5 minutes ago, dor said:

I can remember a few years ago reading about an "all-electric" boat.  This had full size electric cooker, dishwasher, washing machine, tumble drier etc. - just about everything you can think of.  When asked how his batteries were going to cope (he was going cruising not on a landline)  he said "oh I've done all the calculations so it will all work ok; I'm a physics teacher you know. I've got a 150 amp alternator so I can recharge the batteries in an hour or two".

So an education and ,presumably, a reasonable level of intelligence is no guarantee that someone has any common sense.

I'm also planning these "mod" cons, I still don't see an issue in powering them.  It can be done easily.

[dor]

1 minute ago, Robbo said:

I'm also planning these "mod" cons, I still don't see an issue in powering them.  It can be done easily.

Fair point but you are powering them from a genny - that is a completely different scenario.

Perhaps I missed highlighting the point, the person above had the idea that because he had a 150A alternator, that it would produce 150 amps until the batteries were fully charged.  A not uncommon idea among people who don't understand charging regimes.

[by'eck]

9 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Sounds like traditional wisedom but further explanation would be appreciated. 

All the ovens I've looked at have FSD's.

the reason I'm looking at an oven with an auxiliary electric oven is because I haven't used a good gas oven and it would be nice to have an electric oven if plugged into shoreline or if the engine is running.

re: size of alternator, id have to check - what would be sufficient?

Please take the advice already given. To answer your specific questions though when powering oven from inverter, you would need one or more engine alternators providing a total of around 250 amps and it's unlikely you have these. The battery bank would ideally need a capacity in excess of 500 amp hours to allow for situation when engine not running. The inverter would be working for sustained periods close to it's limit so will get hot. How long it survives depends on the quality but I wouldn't put money on that being too long. When on shore power you may be close to tripping the bollard breaker if you have any other mains devices such as chargers running.

In summary even if you engineer your electrics to power the oven, you will need to rush around turning off other battery and mains powered devices every time you wish to use the oven.

[Athy]

1 hour ago, chubby said:

 

Im expecting in the near future  someone to start a thread asking  why thier sunbed isn t working even tho they fitted brand new batteries just the day before.

 

You've lost me here. We do not have a sun bed on our boat, or anywhere else for that matter; but if we did, and I had just fitted it with new batteries, I would expect it to work. Why wouldn't it?

[Robbo]

4 minutes ago, dor said:

Fair point but you are powering them from a genny - that is a completely different scenario.

Perhaps I missed highlighting the point, the person above had the idea that because he had a 150A alternator, that it would produce 150 amps until the batteries were fully charged.  A not uncommon idea among people who don't understand charging regimes.

I think most think batteries are a source of power, when they are not they are just a buffer for the source of power.  My source is the genny, and I'm seriously looking at lithium for batteries as the overall cost will be roughly the same for me.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Robbo said:

I think most think batteries are a source of power, when they are not they are just a buffer for the source of power

Eggs-Actly.

For many of these newby 'floating flatters' their life has revolved around the 'source of power' being a switch on the wall, and, whilst admitting that none of us knew anything until we were taught it' how do we get the information across that you now need to have a 'power station' built into your residence ?

I have found that many, despite asking for it, rarely take any advice given, despite the advice being offered in good faith and based on many years of experiences, they need to make their own (hopefully not to serious errors) before they actually 'learn' things.

I also think that in many instances the questioner has already made up their mind and are just looking for approbation for their 'good idea'.

[Robbo]

13 hours ago, Mohsen said:

I'm looking at getting a cooker which has gas hobs, a gas oven and grill but also has an electric oven that would draw up to 2.6kw 230 VAC. The gas would be primary means of cooking but I would like the option of using an electric oven.

Now I don't know much about electrics but if I used the cooker through my 3kw inverter whilst either:

a. Plugged into Shoreline

b. Engine running

Will I damage my inverter, batteries, alternator?

Thanks in advance 

One thing that I don't think has been covered is that most ovens like this have a clock.   If you wish to have the clock on all the time then when off-grid this may use quite a considerable amount of power over the day especially if the inverter is on only for this item.

For the other issues raised.  If your shoreline can reliably supply the 2.5kw required then there is no issues here.   If your inverter is a Combi then even better as if you go over the shorelines limit the Combi can supply the rest.

For via engine, you are on the limit to what the inverter can supply constantly and you'll need a large alternator if you don't want to hit your batteries.  Prob not worth it if only as a secondary oven.

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Robbo

[nicknorman]

Blimey is it any wonder that a recurring theme with this forum is that new members feel they are treated like naughty children, and tend not to return. Shame on you lot.

Anyway, to the OP there is no harm in having a "dual fuel" oven. A standard 16A shore bollard is about 3.5 kw so it will power the oven provided there isn't much else on. I woudnt try to power it from batteries but if you have a modern engine with a decent alternator(s) then, with the engine running well above idle, it may well go a good way to powering the oven, the remainder coming from the batteries which will then have to be recharged. But I would regard running the oven when not on shore power a last resort e.g. when you've run out of gas.

When you are demanding a large output from an alternator it is best to run the engine fast so that the alternator's cooling fan is running fast - they do get very hot when under heavy load.

Take no notice of the pleased with themselves luddites, they are still using candles - for cooking as well as lighting!

Edited April 21, 2017 by nicknorman

[OldGoat]

If the OP MUST have an electric oven then a possible practical solution is to fit a Travel Power unit to the engine - that will power the oven on its own.

On a point of information - what is the attractiveness of an electric oven? (My Management hates a gas hob - but has no issues either with the gas grill or gas oven)

The reason for cooking on gas on a narrow boat is that the cylinders hold a vast amount of energy which is easily refreshed (buy another bottle) and has its own storage of energy - the bottle.

Any form of electric energy needs an external source to supply large amounts of energy unless there us huge (and I mean huge) storage on board. Even if the latter you need something to refresh it  - and that means a separate generator / large engine driven alternator / or TP (above). In reasonable terms - it's not very practical AND costly. That's why boats have gas cookers.

 

Does that make more sense?

 

[Psycloud]

11 hours ago, Mohsen said:

the reason I'm looking at an oven with an auxiliary electric oven is because I haven't used a good gas oven

Gas ovens can be a bit of a dark art - we find that whatever the recommended cooking time/temperature is, add an extra gas mark and an extra 15 minutes.  Once you get to know your oven it's not actually that bad

[Debby]

We have just had one of these Smart Meter things fitted in our house. I find myself watching it whenever I go in the kitchen. I have noticed that when I first switch the electric oven on, the meter shows a little over 2kw. Once the required temperature is reached, it drops down to just over 250w and stays there. Smart Meters - better than telly...

5 minutes ago, Psycloud said:

Gas ovens can be a bit of a dark art - we find that whatever the recommended cooking time/temperature is, add an extra gas mark and an extra 15 minutes.  Once you get to know your oven it's not actually that bad

We have an electric fan oven and I have to treat it in a similar way - use the temperature recommended for a normal oven and cook for a few minutes longer.

[Robbo]

35 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

If the OP MUST have an electric oven then a possible practical solution is to fit a Travel Power unit to the engine - that will power the oven on its own.

On a point of information - what is the attractiveness of an electric oven? (My Management hates a gas hob - but has no issues either with the gas grill or gas oven)

The reason for cooking on gas on a narrow boat is that the cylinders hold a vast amount of energy which is easily refreshed (buy another bottle) and has its own storage of energy - the bottle.

Any form of electric energy needs an external source to supply large amounts of energy unless there us huge (and I mean huge) storage on board. Even if the latter you need something to refresh it  - and that means a separate generator / large engine driven alternator / or TP (above). In reasonable terms - it's not very practical AND costly. That's why boats have gas cookers.

For me the attractiveness is that I rarely use the oven and more a microwave, so a gas oven will rarely get used, for me a combi oven makes more sense and will save a little space in the kitchen.   If I ditch the gas all together I will have room for a extra diesel/kerosene tank that will supply the boiler, stove and hob.  I'll be mainly a diesel boat.

In summer, the solar I'm planning will mostly cover my daily requirements for cooking (mostly microwave) and in winter (when I'm more likely to use the oven) I have to run the genny (mine is built in and hardly noticeable) for charging the batteries anyhow.

My boat does have a gas bottle area, and I will be running a pipe to the kitchen area.  So if I do sell the boat or change my mind it can be easily converted.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Robbo