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What chance have the hirers got!


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13 hours ago, WotEver said:

Me too. It's amazing how quickly things can go out of shape at 3mph. 

I'm glad you said 3mph.

It helps combat  the popular media illusion that we all travel at 4mph - implying 'slow', but in reality 4mph is bordering on speeding - well at least it is for me - I have to put on the revs quite hard to move at 4mph - leaving an enormous wake - and inviting spontaneous  comments from moored boaters  and fishermen.

 

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10 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

I'm glad you said 3mph.

It helps combat  the popular media illusion that we all travel at 4mph - implying 'slow', but in reality 4mph is bordering on speeding - well at least it is for me - I have to put on the revs quite hard to move at 4mph - leaving an enormous wake - and inviting spontaneous  comments from moored boaters  and fishermen.

 

I would agree. 4 mph is ok on rivers and bigger commercial canals like the A and C but on the piddly canals its way too fast.

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don't really want to get into a Hirers Vs Owners debate - I think it should all depend on experiance (perhaps hours at the helm?)

I consider myself of low to medium experiance - hired boats every year for a week for the last 15 years, and a few times before that, and I've also crewed (including steering) 44ft sailing yaughts across the English Channel. I would in no way call myself an expert though.

I've just got back from a week doing the Warwickshire ring, and I met some delightful owners who were more than happy to talk about various techniques (one was impressed when he saw me springing off, and another actually told me to go faster while I was passing him whilst moored!)

However, there was a small minority of owners (well, just two actually) that didn't have the same opinion to hirers...

1) Upon entering the staircase at Bascote - I was one of a pair going down (both hirers) and there was a single (owner) coming up. The bottom lock was set in the owners favour, and it was obvious that the owner boat should enter the lock, and that when we let water into the sytem the two hire boats enter the top lock, and descend, in order to save water. With a little bit of centre rope tugging (hire boat one enters bottom lock beside owner's boat, hire boat 2 shimmies sideways across top lock, owner's boat enters top lock, hire boat one shimmies sideways in bottom lock, hire boat two enters) it's perfectly acheiveable. the owner was absolultley adamant this this could not work, and that you could only have two boats in the system at a time, which meant us waiting and them using the lock set in their favour. Now, I didn't mind waiting (I'm patient, and If I wanted speed I wouldn't be narrow boating!) but the woman on the owner boat got really shirty with my wife, and said in a very huffy manner "You couldn't possibly know what you're doing - you're only hirers!".

2) Approaching lock 9 on the B&F at Dog and doublet - boat going down in front of us, boat waiting to come up. Moored boat just beyond pub, so I pulled in by the pub to allow crew off. It was a little windy, so I held it on the centre rope while the boats in front sorted themselves out. Once the lock was free, sprang off, just as an owner boat came out of lock 8 behind me, with one of their crew walking to tow path - she was about to get level with my boat on foot. As she saw me move off, she waved frantically at her husband to hurry up "or we'll miss the lock". I entered the lock and she approached me asked me what I was doing - I explained that I had been waiting for the lock, and she actually said "I know, but owners have priority over hirers". Thankfully she walked away at that point in a huff.

I think, what I'm trying to say is, there are good boaters, mediocre boaters and bad boaters, and they can't be put into hirer / owner categories (I'm not implying that anyone on this thread did, btw) - but nothing replaces experiance, and 10 minutes instruction at the beginning of a hire is not really enough. Hire firms are never going to insist on more though - such as some kind of qualification - because it would cost them business.

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On ‎17‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 13:14, notts_alan said:

. Next time I see him I will leave a firm implant of my boot in his face.

Why? Didn't he have any testicles?

 

But seriously, as Graham Davis has pointed out, such action could land you in trouble with the law. By all means think it if it soothes you, but please don't do it!

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On 2017-4-15 at 22:05, Wanderer Vagabond said:

To me the principle failure was the lack of apology, it sort of formalises the approach that boating is just a contact sport. I totally agree that anyone can make a mistake but they then have to take responsibility for the mistake. 

This, in my book.

I have three decent bumps to my name, and lots of minor one, it happens and the more you boat the more it happens. But I have never failed to apologise. 

Even when the other boat has hit me, and I have done all I could to avoid them and or reduce the impact, I still go for something like 'Very sorry about that, but you didnt help yourself...' line of thought.

We're British, saying sorry should be automatic!

 

Daniel

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7 minutes ago, DHutch said:

 

I have three decent bumps to my name, and lots of minor one, it happens and the more you boat the more it happens. But I have never failed to apologise. 

 

Hear, hear.

 

By the same token, if a boat bumps ours and the crew are obviously novice hirers, when they apologise (as they generally do) I'll try to add something along the lines of "Don't worry, we've all done it". I hope it makes them feel less guilty. As suggested earlier in the thread, unlike most things associated with boating, manners are free.

 

+

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4 hours ago, Robster said:

don't really want to get into a Hirers Vs Owners debate - I think it should all depend on experiance (perhaps hours at the helm?)

I consider myself of low to medium experiance - hired boats every year for a week for the last 15 years, and a few times before that, and I've also crewed (including steering) 44ft sailing yaughts across the English Channel. I would in no way call myself an expert though.

I've just got back from a week doing the Warwickshire ring, and I met some delightful owners who were more than happy to talk about various techniques (one was impressed when he saw me springing off, and another actually told me to go faster while I was passing him whilst moored!)

However, there was a small minority of owners (well, just two actually) that didn't have the same opinion to hirers...

1) Upon entering the staircase at Bascote - I was one of a pair going down (both hirers) and there was a single (owner) coming up. The bottom lock was set in the owners favour, and it was obvious that the owner boat should enter the lock, and that when we let water into the sytem the two hire boats enter the top lock, and descend, in order to save water. With a little bit of centre rope tugging (hire boat one enters bottom lock beside owner's boat, hire boat 2 shimmies sideways across top lock, owner's boat enters top lock, hire boat one shimmies sideways in bottom lock, hire boat two enters) it's perfectly acheiveable. the owner was absolultley adamant this this could not work, and that you could only have two boats in the system at a time, which meant us waiting and them using the lock set in their favour. Now, I didn't mind waiting (I'm patient, and If I wanted speed I wouldn't be narrow boating!) but the woman on the owner boat got really shirty with my wife, and said in a very huffy manner "You couldn't possibly know what you're doing - you're only hirers!".

2) Approaching lock 9 on the B&F at Dog and doublet - boat going down in front of us, boat waiting to come up. Moored boat just beyond pub, so I pulled in by the pub to allow crew off. It was a little windy, so I held it on the centre rope while the boats in front sorted themselves out. Once the lock was free, sprang off, just as an owner boat came out of lock 8 behind me, with one of their crew walking to tow path - she was about to get level with my boat on foot. As she saw me move off, she waved frantically at her husband to hurry up "or we'll miss the lock". I entered the lock and she approached me asked me what I was doing - I explained that I had been waiting for the lock, and she actually said "I know, but owners have priority over hirers". Thankfully she walked away at that point in a huff.

I think, what I'm trying to say is, there are good boaters, mediocre boaters and bad boaters, and they can't be put into hirer / owner categories (I'm not implying that anyone on this thread did, btw) - but nothing replaces experiance, and 10 minutes instruction at the beginning of a hire is not really enough. Hire firms are never going to insist on more though - such as some kind of qualification - because it would cost them business.

Greenie for that one.  Clearly you were dead right on both of the examples that you give although I have also come across a few who don't 'get' this idea about passing on a broad staircase, possibly because it requires a bit of thought and logic.

As far as your second example goes, I'd even go as far as to adopt the polar opposite of what the woman said. As an owner I will always give hirers priority whether at locks,lift/swing bridges or anywhere else. I have all the time in the world but a hirer is, by the very nature of what they are doing, time restricted. If I can't get through a flight of locks today, there is always tomorrow (or the next day) but for a hirer it could drastically alter their weeks plans.

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36 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Greenie for that one.  Clearly you were dead right on both of the examples that you give although I have also come across a few who don't 'get' this idea about passing on a broad staircase, possibly because it requires a bit of thought and logic.

As far as your second example goes, I'd even go as far as to adopt the polar opposite of what the woman said. As an owner I will always give hirers priority whether at locks,lift/swing bridges or anywhere else. I have all the time in the world but a hirer is, by the very nature of what they are doing, time restricted. If I can't get through a flight of locks today, there is always tomorrow (or the next day) but for a hirer it could drastically alter their weeks plans.

I agree with you, so many hirers have a challenging schedule and any significant delay just becomes more stressful for them and may mean cruising much later than intended.  Boating is meant to be relaxing, and if me giving way from time to time when I am in no hurry makes their holiday better, why not??? 

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We have just got from a week on DQ.

We only met one numpty, and that was a privatd boat that had just been repainted.

We had to wait ages whilst the pulled it on ropes out of one of the Fradley locks, because they didn't want to scratch the paint.

We went in and the steerer screamed at my wife (who was walking to the bottom gates) that she had forgotten to shut the top gate. She ignored him and put her windlass on the paddle. The guy became apoplectic. 

Once I had stopped the boat,  I stepped off and closed the top gate. "Stupid women, she forgot to close the gate" he said to me.

"No, she is doing what we always do when going down a lock.  It's the most efficient way when there are only two of you,  you should try it some time" I replied.

The look on his face was priceless. It was clear that doing locks any other way than "his" way with a large crew was completely alien to him.

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4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

We went in and the steerer screamed at my wife (who was walking to the bottom gates) that she had forgotten to shut the top gate. She ignored him and put her windlass on the paddle. The guy became apoplectic. 

Once I had stopped the boat,  I stepped off and closed the top gate. "Stupid women, she forgot to close the gate" he said to me.

"No, she is doing what we always do when going down a lock.  It's the most efficient way when there are only two of you,  you should try it some time" I replied.

The look on his face was priceless. It was clear that doing locks any other way than "his" way with a large crew was completely alien to him.

We, and there normally are two of us, do as you do when going down locks. But I have to admit that it took us a few years to work out that it saved time for the steerer to attend to the top gate while the windlass-wielder walked to the bottom gates.

 

If he was so bothered about the top gate, why didn't he close the *"%^&^* thing himself?

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14 minutes ago, cuthound said:

We have just got from a week on DQ.

We only met one numpty, and that was a privatd boat that had just been repainted.

We had to wait ages whilst the pulled it on ropes out of one of the Fradley locks, because they didn't want to scratch the paint.

We went in and the steerer screamed at my wife (who was walking to the bottom gates) that she had forgotten to shut the top gate. She ignored him and put her windlass on the paddle. The guy became apoplectic. 

Once I had stopped the boat,  I stepped off and closed the top gate. "Stupid women, she forgot to close the gate" he said to me.

"No, she is doing what we always do when going down a lock.  It's the most efficient way when there are only two of you,  you should try it some time" I replied.

The look on his face was priceless. It was clear that doing locks any other way than "his" way with a large crew was completely alien to him.

Blimey your wife is controlled....if that had been my OH he would have to be worried about his bodily parts all over his paintwork....

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17 minutes ago, frangar said:

Blimey your wife is controlled....if that had been my OH he would have to be worried about his bodily parts all over his paintwork....

Yep my missus is very mild mannered but Richard Craniums she does not tolerate.

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37 minutes ago, frangar said:

Blimey your wife is controlled....if that had been my OH he would have to be worried about his bodily parts all over his paintwork....

 

19 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yep my missus is very mild mannered but Richard Craniums she does not tolerate.

 Yes, she isn't usually that controlled with people who upset her,  either she is going deaf or she is beginning to mellow in her old age :D

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3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

  either she is going deaf or she is beginning to mellow in her old age :D

Now you are a trooooooly brave man :D I take it she is like my missus and never goes anywhere near the forum :lol:

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On 21/04/2017 at 17:43, Athy said:

We, and there normally are two of us, do as you do when going down locks. But I have to admit that it took us a few years to work out that it saved time for the steerer to attend to the top gate while the windlass-wielder walked to the bottom gates.

 

If he was so bothered about the top gate, why didn't he close the *"%^&^* thing himself?

Easier still if you strap in.

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I remember some years back being slagged off  by a private owner when delivering a new hire boat from the builder to the hire company( letting the boat push top gate open as I was single handing ) I remember musing at the time how much more experience has a private owner that takes his boat off the mooring/out of the marina a couple of times a year for a week or two than a hirer having a boat for perhaps the same time period,  & then we get the " no matter how long they have boated they will/have never got the hang of it, while others pick up the required "skills" in a very short time .It seems the "Im superior to you because I own my boat has got more prevalent in recent years" although it could be that this attitude is more wide spread in all walks of life present day ;

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On 2017-4-21 at 17:43, Athy said:

We, and there normally are two of us, do as you do when going down locks. But I have to admit that it took us a few years to work out that it saved time for the steerer to attend to the top gate while the windlass-wielder walked to the bottom gates.

 

If he was so bothered about the top gate, why didn't he close the *"%^&^* thing himself?

I normally hop off and close the offside paddle while Diana closes the gate, I am normally ready to draw the bottom paddles by the time the gate is shut.

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11 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I normally hop off and close the offside paddle while Diana closes the gate, I am normally ready to draw the bottom paddles by the time the gate is shut.

That's our preferred method too. We reckon it's quicker. 

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4 hours ago, MHS said:

That's our preferred method too. We reckon it's quicker. 

I reckon that sounds a sensible way of doing it the only trouble is that would mean I would have to get off the boat and do lock things and that would never do.

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On 22/04/2017 at 22:19, FadeToScarlet said:

Easier still if you strap in.

i've tried strapping in but with the faff of getting the rope round the horn on the gate and then getting it off again I find it quicker to stop the boat using reverse and then hopping off to close the gate.

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18 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I normally hop off and close the offside paddle while Diana closes the gate, I am normally ready to draw the bottom paddles by the time the gate is shut.

I'm always interested to learn of new ways of making lock working more efficient, but I don't quite get this trick. Why is the offside paddle still up?

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