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What chance have the hirers got!


boots

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Was moored just outside Wrenbury yesterday (past the hire boats to the west of town, on the straight). We were moored in a line of boats.

We were hit firmly (but no visable damage fortunately) by a hire boat that had just been picked up, and guess what - it was one of the company staff (presumably giving instructions) at the helm!

no sign of apology, (though we were all inside at the time), nor one a few minutes later when he walked past, back to the boatyard.

if this is the example that is given to hirers, guess the behaviour seen by some comes as no surprise 

 

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16 minutes ago, boots said:

Was moored just outside Wrenbury yesterday (past the hire boats to the west of town, on the straight). We were moored in a line of boats.

We were hit firmly (but no visable damage fortunately) by a hire boat that had just been picked up, and guess what - it was one of the company staff (presumably giving instructions) at the helm!

no sign of apology, (though we were all inside at the time), nor one a few minutes later when he walked past, back to the boatyard.

if this is the example that is given to hirers, guess the behaviour seen by some comes as no surprise 

 

If it was a small hire company it may have been the manager...............

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50 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

If it was a small hire company it may have been the manager...............

I wouldn't call the ABC group that operates from Wrenbury small.  I would certainly complain in no uncertain terms if I was hit in similar circumstances.

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45 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

I presume that you have complained to the Manager of the hire boat company?

Why? OP has stated no visible damage so I bet there is non anyway. Shit happens, people make mistakes and sometimes the contact sport bit comes into reality. I doubt it was a deliberate act anyway so why the fuss? On occasion in the past when green I made cock ups as did you and EVERY other boater in the world.

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32 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Why? OP has stated no visible damage so I bet there is non anyway. Shit happens, people make mistakes and sometimes the contact sport bit comes into reality. I doubt it was a deliberate act anyway so why the fuss? On occasion in the past when green I made cock ups as did you and EVERY other boater in the world.

My thoughts exactly. We all have (and still do sometimes) got it wrong. Molehills into mountains.

Edited by rgreg
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45 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Why? OP has stated no visible damage so I bet there is non anyway. Shit happens, people make mistakes and sometimes the contact sport bit comes into reality. I doubt it was a deliberate act anyway so why the fuss? On occasion in the past when green I made cock ups as did you and EVERY other boater in the world.

Indeed we can all make mistakes but an apology costs nothing. I once had a Canal Time shoot out of Sawley marina about 10ft in front of my bows when under instruction....luckily I managed to stop before t boning them....perhaps I shouldn't have bothered... I'm afraid when the chap jumped off he got told a few home truths in no uncertain terms...if that's how hirers are instructed then how are they expected to know what's right? 

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10 minutes ago, frangar said:

Indeed we can all make mistakes but an apology costs nothing. I once had a Canal Time shoot out of Sawley marina about 10ft in front of my bows when under instruction....luckily I managed to stop before t boning them....perhaps I shouldn't have bothered... I'm afraid when the chap jumped off he got told a few home truths in no uncertain terms...if that's how hirers are instructed then how are they expected to know what's right? 

Sometimes though the hirer is going along ok then suddenly does something realy unexpected and the trainer has to dive back onto the tiller and when that happens and a boat is hit the owner jumps up and out of his/her boat and the first thing he sees is the trainer at the tiller and makes an assumption sometimes wrongly. The problem is of course that hire boats have telephone numbers plastered all over them and are easily identifiable so taken as fair game by some owners. I have met many many boat owners with no more idea than the man in the moon on how to handle their boat.

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5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Sometimes though the hirer is going along ok then suddenly does something realy unexpected and the trainer has to dive back onto the tiller and when that happens and a boat is hit the owner jumps up and out of his/her boat and the first thing he sees is the trainer at the tiller and makes an assumption sometimes wrongly. The problem is of course that hire boats have telephone numbers plastered all over them and are easily identifiable so taken as fair game by some owners. I have met many many boat owners with no more idea than the man in the moon on how to handle their boat.

It still doesn't hurt to say sorry.

 

11 minutes ago, MHS said:

Manners maketh the man

As Franger said the least you can do if you've hit someone's boat is to apologise. 

Agree

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2 hours ago, boots said:

Was moored just outside Wrenbury yesterday (past the hire boats to the west of town, on the straight). We were moored in a line of boats.

We were hit firmly (but no visable damage fortunately) by a hire boat that had just been picked up, and guess what - it was one of the company staff (presumably giving instructions) at the helm!

no sign of apology, (though we were all inside at the time), nor one a few minutes later when he walked past, back to the boatyard.

if this is the example that is given to hirers, guess the behaviour seen by some comes as no surprise 

 

Haven't you heard?  Hire companies are now teaching the Timothy West method.

It does take 40 years to perfect though. 

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I've never hired a boat, having learned as crew for others, but I get the feeling that the training they give to novices is pretty basic. They tend to arrive at their first lock very nervously, unsure what to do and very grateful for a bit of basic instruction on what to do with paddles and gates and why.

Of course I wasn't there, but it wouldn't surprise me if mrsmellys' theory is correct, that the instructor had just taken back the tiller but too late to prevent the bump. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he explained afterwards to the hirer (1) how to steer a better line and (2) that hitting other boats is to be avoided. Having said that, maybe the instructor should have reacted faster, and certainly he should have made the time to say sorry when walking back.

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To me the principle failure was the lack of apology, it sort of formalises the approach that boating is just a contact sport. I totally agree that anyone can make a mistake but they then have to take responsibility for the mistake. I can speak as someone who was inadvertently rammed earlier today, the helmsman had obviously had some distraction and gone off line and then panicked and threw the boat into reverse a bit too late. Minor bump, profuse apologies and no harm done. Someone who rams my boat and carries on as though that is something that I should be expecting because I'm on a boat would have got a foul mouthful. When they apologise I can sympathise with their error.

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On 15/04/2017 at 21:30, Peter X said:

I've never hired a boat, having learned as crew for others, but I get the feeling that the training they give to novices is pretty basic. They tend to arrive at their first lock very nervously, unsure what to do and very grateful for a bit of basic instruction on what to do with paddles and gates and why.

Of course I wasn't there, but it wouldn't surprise me if mrsmellys' theory is correct, that the instructor had just taken back the tiller but too late to prevent the bump. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he explained afterwards to the hirer (1) how to steer a better line and (2) that hitting other boats is to be avoided. Having said that, maybe the instructor should have reacted faster, and certainly he should have made the time to say sorry when walking back.

 

On 15/04/2017 at 21:30, Peter X said:

I've never hired a boat, having learned as crew for others, but I get the feeling that the training they give to novices is pretty basic. They tend to arrive at their first lock very nervously, unsure what to do and very grateful for a bit of basic instruction on what to do with paddles and gates and why.

Of course I wasn't there, but it wouldn't surprise me if mrsmellys' theory is correct, that the instructor had just taken back the tiller but too late to prevent the bump. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he explained afterwards to the hirer (1) how to steer a better line and (2) that hitting other boats is to be avoided. Having said that, maybe the instructor should have reacted faster, and certainly he should have made the time to say sorry when walking back.

I go along with you and mrsmelly as to a possible explanation of the circumstances - but if so, an apology should have been part of the training session.

 

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I was hit at a junction , there was a 100 metre obstruction coming up to the junction , I was in a plastic cruiser and around 80 metres through the obstruction , a big narrow boat approached the other end and just carried on coming . He rammed in to me head on , pushing me off the Canal and through someone's garden fence breaking the panels and smashing the front of my boat , he did not even slow down or acknowledge I was there and carried on.

I know he deserved a good smacking but could not stop. Next time I see him I will leave a firm implant of my boot in his face.

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36 minutes ago, notts_alan said:

I was hit at a junction , there was a 100 metre obstruction coming up to the junction , I was in a plastic cruiser and around 80 metres through the obstruction , a big narrow boat approached the other end and just carried on coming . He rammed in to me head on , pushing me off the Canal and through someone's garden fence breaking the panels and smashing the front of my boat , he did not even slow down or acknowledge I was there and carried on.

I know he deserved a good smacking but could not stop. Next time I see him I will leave a firm implant of my boot in his face.

And was it a hire boat with an instructor aboard??

If the front of your boat was smashed, surely you got his details for an insurance claim?

Edited by MHS
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51 minutes ago, notts_alan said:

I was hit at a junction , there was a 100 metre obstruction coming up to the junction , I was in a plastic cruiser and around 80 metres through the obstruction , a big narrow boat approached the other end and just carried on coming . He rammed in to me head on , pushing me off the Canal and through someone's garden fence breaking the panels and smashing the front of my boat , he did not even slow down or acknowledge I was there and carried on.

I know he deserved a good smacking but could not stop. Next time I see him I will leave a firm implant of my boot in his face.

He hit you so hard that your boat left the water and through a garden fence.........................................really?

And your last sentence is a sure way of ending up in Court.

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I wonder whether hire boat handovers focus sufficiently on appropriate speed. Steering a boat is something that can only really be learnt by practice and getting to know how the boat responds. The incidents I observe of boats veering across the canal involve excessive speed.

While taking water at Diglis on Sunday morning I observed a hire boat hit one of the moored boats quite hard despite heavy use of reverse. It was obvious that not only would a boat proceeding at appropriate speed have been able to stop or nearly stop they would also unlikely have lost control. I think they were changing helmsman on approach to the lock. I saw the crew - an antipodean group - a few minutes later and they were somewhat embarrassed but I don't believe any harm was done.

I followed once they had passed through the top barge lock in the company of a preceding boat and I waited for an approaching hire boat to join me. On entering the hire boat glanced my hull at low speed and the skipper was very apologetic. I said 'no worries'. I asked them where they were headed and confirmed the hire base had given them the instructions for how to exit into the Severn. We also established we were both planning to stop at the Camp House Inn. I had moored up a while before they got there but they seemed very surprised when I hung out a couple of fenders and gestured for them to moor alongside. There wasn't any other option. One of the crew expressed surprise at my relaxed attitude toward their boat touching my boat. I explained that as long as speed is controlled and contact is at a shallow angle there isn't anything to worry about. The whole thing struck me as symptomatic that hire boaters are very wary of the attitude of private boat owners.

What they didn't know is that two years ago I was the hire boater wondering where to moor at the Camp House. I hope I don't forget those days in future.

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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19 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

The incidents I observe of boats veering across the canal involve excessive speed.

Most of my incidents of veering across the canal result from me being nosey and looking at something other than the canal for too long.

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38 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Most of my incidents of veering across the canal result from me being nosey and looking at something other than the canal for too long.

Me too. It's amazing how quickly things can go out of shape at 3mph. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

I wonder whether hire boat handovers focus sufficiently on appropriate speed. Steering a boat is something that can only really be learnt by practice and getting to know how the boat responds. The incidents I observe of boats veering across the canal involve excessive speed.

While taking water at Diglis on Sunday morning I observed a hire boat hit one of the moored boats quite hard despite heavy use of reverse. It was obvious that not only would a boat proceeding at appropriate speed have been able to stop or nearly stop they would also unlikely have lost control. I think they were changing helmsman on approach to the lock. I saw the crew - an antipodean group - a few minutes later and they were somewhat embarrassed but I don't believe any harm was done.

I followed once they had passed through the top barge lock in the company of a preceding boat and I waited for an approaching hire boat to join me. On entering the hire boat glanced my hull at low speed and the skipper was very apologetic. I said 'no worries'. I asked them where they were headed and confirmed the hire base had given them the instructions for how to exit into the Severn. We also established we were both planning to stop at the Camp House Inn. I had moored up a while before they got there but they seemed very surprised when I hung out a couple of fenders and gestured for them to moor alongside. There wasn't any other option. One of the crew expressed surprise at my relaxed attitude toward their boat touching my boat. I explained that as long as speed is controlled and contact is at a shallow angle there isn't anything to worry about. The whole thing struck me as symptomatic that hire boaters are very wary of the attitude of private boat owners.

What they didn't know is that two years ago I was the hire boater wondering where to moor at the Camp House. I hope I don't forget those days in future.

JP

Thought the moorings were looking rather rough when we passed by on Sunday.I'm sure they were better last September !

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54 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Most of my incidents of veering across the canal result from me being nosey and looking at something other than the canal for too long.

Most of my veering across the canal incidents result from me stopping to chat to people I know ☺

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2 minutes ago, The Bearwood Boster said:

Thought the moorings were looking rather rough when we passed by on Sunday.I'm sure they were better last September !

The bit that was suitable for narrowboats at normal river levels is derelict. We were moored against a barge that was already moored. To be honest it might have been difficult if it hadn't been there because the only useable bit seems to be the high section and I am not sure how easy it is to access shore from a narrowboat from there if at all. I had my 77 year old folks on board. They wouldn't have been stepping off the roof.

I had to stop as I had arranged to meet my wife and kids and my sister and her family there.

JP

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