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Ratkatcher

BMC 1.5 / Thornycroft 90 Glow Pliugs

21 posts in this topic

The glow plugs in my engine are getting tired so I thought "order some on Ebay"   - a seller had them listed at £8.00 each so promptly ordered and paid for.  Received a 'dispatched' notice from the seller, all good.

The next day I receive an 'order cancelled by buyer - refund' notice, obviously not cancelled by me but by the seller.  The same day he is listing the same glow plugs at £113 each!

If anyone finds they need some, about the only place in the UK that has genuine Champion ones (AG32) at a half reasonable price is: John richards Surplus at £18 each with free delivery (assuming that I don't receive another out of stock notice!)

The equivalents from other manufacturers appear to be suffering a lack of stock or massive price inflation which is the sole reason I thought to post this littlle tale, if you feel you need spares, just in case, this may be a reasonable choice.

David

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Report the incident to Ebay. 

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BMC 1.5 and 1.8 heater plugs are readily available ASAP Supplies do them for £15 each, Calcutt Marine will sell you a set of four for £28. OK they may not be Champion plugs, (do they still exist?) but both suppliers only seel decent quality sp[ares, so they should be fine.

 

NOTE:- Check that any you order will fit your engine, as there are at least two variations.

Edited by David Schweizer
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5 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

BMC 1.5 and 1.8 heater plugs are readily available ASAP Supplies do them for £15 each, Calcutt Marine will sell you a set of four for £28. OK they may not be Champion plugs, (do they stuill exist?) but both suppliers only seel decent quality sp[ares, so they should be fine.

I did try both of these first, they have no stock currently - Calcutt Marine offer a set of 4 with a long drill bit to ream out the holes too, but sadly no stock.

The Champion are surplus so are likely to be quite old...  apparently unused though.

Thanks for the suggestion though - I'd prefer supporting the 'boaty' places whenever possible.

Edited by Ratkatcher
Typo, oops!
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Hi,

Are you sure your glow plugs are cream crackered? I have a 1986 boat with a 1500 BMC and recently planned to replace my plugs. On removing them  and reaming out the glow plug hole (11/64 inch drill or metric equivalent (best go for slightly smaller)) I found that there was a lot of carbon. The resistance of a new Champion CH32 is approx 2 ohms - easy to check with a multimeter and all my plugs were close to this. There is lots of info about checking glow plugs on You Tube

The plugs are now replaced and starting is a lot better.

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15 minutes ago, alvicchas1 said:

Hi,

Are you sure your glow plugs are cream crackered? I have a 1986 boat with a 1500 BMC and recently planned to replace my plugs. On removing them  and reaming out the glow plug hole (11/64 inch drill or metric equivalent (best go for slightly smaller)) I found that there was a lot of carbon. The resistance of a new Champion CH32 is approx 2 ohms - easy to check with a multimeter and all my plugs were close to this. There is lots of info about checking glow plugs on You Tube

The plugs are now replaced and starting is a lot better.

Good point, they do last a long time, but getting them out can be a challenge, as it is easy to break the thin heater shroud. The best way is to undo them a quatere of a turn, and re-tighten, then undo half a turn and re-tighten, then three quarters of a turn and re-tighten, continuing this pattern until they are loose enough to remove without a spanner.

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2 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Good point, they do last a long time, but getting them out can be a challenge, as it is easy to break the thin heater shroud. The best way is to undo them a quatere of a turn, and re-tighten, then undo half a turn and re-tighten, then three quarters of a turn and re-tighten, continuing this pattern until they are loose enough to remove without a spanner.

Good advice. Also when replacing the plugs a smear of copper grease on the threads to help easy removal next time. Make sure that you ream the holes until all the carbon is removed and there is no resistance to moving the drill backwards and forwards in the hole.

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Hi,

Been doing a bit of "googling". www. arc-components.com based in Wakefield have Durite 0-130-12 - listed as a Champion  CH32 equivalents and the website shows them in stock for £15.62 including VAT. Delivery is free for an order over £50. Could be worth giving them a ring.

 

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16 hours ago, alvicchas1 said:

Hi,

Been doing a bit of "googling". www. arc-components.com based in Wakefield have Durite 0-130-12 - listed as a Champion  CH32 equivalents and the website shows them in stock for £15.62 including VAT. Delivery is free for an order over £50. Could be worth giving them a ring.

 

I missed that one!  I spent a long time searching for a supplier with stock of equivalent plugs too...

Bar 1, the glow plugs on the boat must have been out quite recently as they came out quite easily ( I had read the info suggesting the 1/4 turn method and watched a couple of useful youtube videos before tackling the job) and the holes were quite clean - the last had a little carbon in.  (and a Champion plug!)

Heat up time for all of the plugs is around 17 seconds (which seems to be about right) and current draw close to 5 amps (resistance is nearly 3 ohms) each but starting the engine, even with 90 seconds of heater plug on before cranking is difficult.  Once started and warmed up a little it is fine for the rest of the day and starts very easily (turn the key and running in about a second) so the feebly glowing plugs are my first item to tick off.

Any other suggestions what dreadful cold starting my be are most welcome!  I'll be getting the injectors checked as soon as possible too, just in case.  The injector pump was replaced with a refurb unit less than a year ago.

 

Thanks for all of the the suggestions so far.

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Assuming you have at least 400 psi compression on all cylinders, but I rather suspect you may not.

The BMC 1.5 used pintaux injectors that have a small auxiliary spray hole to one side that is used to direct fuel into the hottest part of the pre-combustion chamber to aid cold starting. These block up over time and occasionally am idiot will fit a pintle nozzle instead of a pintaux. Both cause poor cold starting.

If you can beg, borrow or steal a compression tester I would do that first and report back. Otherwise maybe get the injectors overhauled and tested. Any decent FIE specialist will probably do them on an exchange basis. However take a good look at the manual because their are several parts "down the hole" that may come out with the injector and must go back, the crimped washer and copper washer require renewing.

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5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Assuming you have at least 400 psi compression on all cylinders, but I rather suspect you may not.

The BMC 1.5 used pintaux injectors that have a small auxiliary spray hole to one side that is used to direct fuel into the hottest part of the pre-combustion chamber to aid cold starting. These block up over time and occasionally am idiot will fit a pintle nozzle instead of a pintaux. Both cause poor cold starting.

If you can beg, borrow or steal a compression tester I would do that first and report back. Otherwise maybe get the injectors overhauled and tested. Any decent FIE specialist will probably do them on an exchange basis. However take a good look at the manual because their are several parts "down the hole" that may come out with the injector and must go back, the crimped washer and copper washer require renewing.

I had my injectors tested and repaired recently stopped it smoking but not any better for starting so its time to  check the recently replaced glow plugs to see if they are ok

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I found this:

Manufacturer brand Manufacturer ref.
BERU 0100221101
BERU 0100221136
BERU 112M
BERU GV112
BOSCH 0250200035
CHAMPION AG32
CHAMPION CH32
DELPHI HDS227
HKT B-055
NGK Y-302

Calcutt boats also mention BMC 88G443

which might be of interest for comparison/equivalence.

I also found:

  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-X-ROVER-MARINA-1-5-D-Glow-Plug/131633076250

which seems almost too good to be true. I've ordered some and will report back.

 

 

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Cheers I have ordered a set as well very cheap but you never know do you?

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Grrr!  I missed that one too :angry:

So I ordered a set as well, just in case, at that price they are a gift and can sit around just in case they are ever needed.

Well spotted, thanks :D

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I saw a 1.5 diesel marina in Malta last month I have to say even the mopeds were overtaking it!!

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Both original Champion glow plugs and the ones from ebay have arrived.  The ebay ones are in individual boxes and very clean, I'm impressed, if I hadn't left my multimeter on the boat it would have been fun to compare resistance of the units.

Will fit one of the sets when next at the boat (after a good cleaning of all the plugholes) and hope that they help :D

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10 hours ago, Ratkatcher said:

Both original Champion glow plugs and the ones from ebay have arrived.  The ebay ones are in individual boxes and very clean, I'm impressed, if I hadn't left my multimeter on the boat it would have been fun to compare resistance of the units.

Will fit one of the sets when next at the boat (after a good cleaning of all the plugholes) and hope that they help :D

Distance selling rules allow you to send unwanted and unused items back if you're happy with the eBay ones.

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1 minute ago, Mikexx said:

Distance selling rules allow you to send unwanted and unused items back if you're happy with the eBay ones.

I am tempted to send the other supplier's plugs back, they look like they were pulled from an engine or 2 and look (and measure - I used my coil building deck to measure resistance on the plugs) as tired as the ones already in my engine!

The ebay ones are new, shiny and under 2 ohms resistance so should glow a lot brighter than the champion ones, which could mean easier starting...   That and they were only £15 (a bit less) compared to £72!

A refund is going to be requested I think.

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I have fitted the ebay ones they had .9 ohms resistance and the starting is now instant! 3-4 seconds heat and it fires up, out of the 4 old plugs [replaced last year] one was .9 the other 2 were 20s and one was open circuit no wonder it wouldnt start. Dont know where he got the plugs from but calcutt unfortunately in with a shout. As he had died I will never know the answer. I have ordered a set for my mate as well as I am so pleased with the result

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6 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have fitted the ebay ones they had .9 ohms resistance and the starting is now instant! 3-4 seconds heat and it fires up, out of the 4 old plugs [replaced last year] one was .9 the other 2 were 20s and one was open circuit no wonder it wouldnt start. Dont know where he got the plugs from but calcutt unfortunately in with a shout. As he had died I will never know the answer. I have ordered a set for my mate as well as I am so pleased with the result

0.9 ohms is more consistent with Tony Brooks' experience than 2 ohms

  http://www.tb-training.co.uk/marinee07.html

It does highlight an issue with the size of cable to drive the glow plugs and starter switch current capability.

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Strange but the ebay ones were very reluctant to go into my engine, the thread appeared larger so for now have not fitted them. But while I was sitting in the engine 'ole I spent a happy hour or so cleaning out the glow plug holes with a 4mm long drill bit and just a little cussing...   Having removed enough hard carbon to have me searching for any missed diamonds and then replaced the original glow plugs there is already a noticible difference in starting from cold, 45 seconds of heating and the engine starts in a few seconds, very encouraging!

When I am next at the boat I'll have a go at getting the ebay plugs in again, just to see if I was being a little too cautious.

For now well pleased anyway.

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