Aquadrive

[Arthur Marshall]

Friend was helping a guy down Audlem today when the chap's gearbox fell off the engine. The engine had been installed at 45 degrees with an aquadrive to the propshaft. Wouldn't this put a hell of a strain on it all or should it cope with such an angle? 

[cereal tiller]

22 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Friend was helping a guy down Audlem today when the chap's gearbox fell off the engine. The engine had been installed at 45 degrees with an aquadrive to the propshaft. Wouldn't this put a hell of a strain on it all or should it cope with such an angle? 

Was it the standard length or an extended one?have seen them 2 metres long

Edited April 14, 2017 by cereal tiller

[Flyboy]

37 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Friend was helping a guy down Audlem today when the chap's gearbox fell off the engine. The engine had been installed at 45 degrees with an aquadrive to the propshaft. Wouldn't this put a hell of a strain on it all or should it cope with such an angle? 

I think the maximum angle of an Aquadrive is 16 degrees (8 degrees per joint) ,see link. I think it would be impossible to operate at 45 degrees. 

http://www.tnorrismarine.co.uk/product/aqua-drive/

Edited April 14, 2017 by Flyboy

[dor]

My experience is with the similar Python drive.   That has a limit of about eight degrees.  45 degrees, 22.5 on each CV joint, seems rather a lot!

[Arthur Marshall]

Thats what he thought. It had been put in like that in order to fit in a generator. Apparently had sheared the studs holding the box to the engine. RCR have been called out and will probably tow him somewhere. 

[bargemast]

It's always a good idea to read the manufacterers installation instructions, and if the installation was done by a so called "Professional", I would avoid him/her for any future work to be done on the boat, and keep that person at a safe distance.

 

Peter.

[X Alan W]

As peter says "If in doubt read the instructions"  I always remember the Hamilton VP aero propeller assembly & fitting instructions inside the front cover in red print it said "you have assembled & fitted this unit & it does not work correctly so dis assemble read the instructions & re assemble as per instructions to ensure correct operation"

[frahkn]

18 hours ago, Flyboy said:

I think the maximum angle of an Aquadrive is 16 degrees (8 degrees per joint) ,see link. I think it would be impossible to operate at 45 degrees. 

http://www.tnorrismarine.co.uk/product/aqua-drive/

Mine is about 12 feet long and is in 3 sections to accommodate an engine which is off-set to the side of the boat (and 14' forward of the prop). The angles are about 15 degrees each, I think; certainly the surveyor mentioned that they were too big and were a potential source of trouble.

I've had the boat nearly 4 years without any problem and it was 10 years old when I bought it.

Now touch some wood that it doesn't fall apart tomorrow!

Frank.

[bargemast]

1 hour ago, frahkn said:

Mine is about 12 feet long and is in 3 sections to accommodate an engine which is off-set to the side of the boat (and 14' forward of the prop). The angles are about 15 degrees each, I think; certainly the surveyor mentioned that they were too big and were a potential source of trouble.

I've had the boat nearly 4 years without any problem and it was 10 years old when I bought it.

Now touch some wood that it doesn't fall apart tomorrow!

Frank.

I presume your not moving today then

 

Peter.

[bizzard]

CV joints on cars cope with very acute and multiple angles under power, but usually acute angles only for short periods whilst maneuvering. On the other hand a driver who's bust his Sat-nav and is lost might circumnavigate a mini roundabout on full lock hundreds and hundreds of times whilst making up his mind which way to go and make him dizzy, turn around and circumnavigate it hundreds of times in the opposite direction to undizzy himself before taking a guess which way to go.

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, bizzard said:

CV joints on cars cope with very acute and multiple angles under power, but usually acute angles only for short periods whilst maneuvering. On the other hand a driver who's bust his Sat-nav and is lost might circumnavigate a mini roundabout on full lock hundreds and hundreds of times whilst making up his mind which way to go and make him dizzy, turn around and circumnavigate it hundreds of times in the opposite direction to undizzy himself before taking a guess which way to go.

And then finding he can't go anywhere because one of the CV joints is sitting in the gutter. 

[bizzard]

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

And then finding he can't go anywhere because one of the CV joints is sitting in the gutter. 

Well, the balls can pop out. I renewed one on a Volvo V40 a couple of weeks ago where a ball had popped out on full lock, which can happen when the outside of the bearing track wears. He said he hadn't been stuck on a mini roundabout though. I must say that the quality and sturdyness of the running gear of late Volvo's is not up to the same quality and sturdyness as the older 240 ect range.

[Flyboy]

4 hours ago, frahkn said:

Mine is about 12 feet long and is in 3 sections to accommodate an engine which is off-set to the side of the boat (and 14' forward of the prop). The angles are about 15 degrees each, I think; certainly the surveyor mentioned that they were too big and were a potential source of trouble.

I've had the boat nearly 4 years without any problem and it was 10 years old when I bought it.

Now touch some wood that it doesn't fall apart tomorrow!

Frank.

I'm always amazed how some people think they know better that the manufacturers. Aquadrive are part of the GKN group have been making CV joints since the year dot so I reckon they know the limitations of their product quite well. 

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

Well, the balls can pop out. I renewed one on a Volvo V40 a couple of weeks ago where a ball had popped out on full lock, which can happen when the outside of the bearing track wears. He said he hadn't been stuck on a mini roundabout though. I must say that the quality and sturdyness of the running gear of late Volvo's is not up to the same quality and sturdyness as the older 240 ect range.

Mate of mine had a TR7 (hateful POS), started to pull off my drive, stopped pulling off the drive. We pushed it back and waited for the trailer to take it to the local garage. 

[bargemast]

2 hours ago, bizzard said:

Well, the balls can pop out. I renewed one on a Volvo V40 a couple of weeks ago where a ball had popped out on full lock, which can happen when the outside of the bearing track wears. He said he hadn't been stuck on a mini roundabout though. I must say that the quality and sturdyness of the running gear of late Volvo's is not up to the same quality and sturdyness as the older 240 ect range.

The older Volvo's like the 240 Series were rearwheel drive and much stronger than the more modern stuff.

 

In the early 70's I had a Volvo 122S with the engine of a 123GT one of the most reliable cars I've ever had, that car was virtualy indestructible, too bad they don't make that sort of cars anymore, as I wouldn't hesitate to have another one.

 

Peter.

[Flyboy]

15 minutes ago, bargemast said:

The older Volvo's like the 240 Series were rearwheel drive and much stronger than the more modern stuff.

 

In the early 70's I had a Volvo 122S with the engine of a 123GT one of the most reliable cars I've ever had, that car was virtualy indestructible, too bad they don't make that sort of cars anymore, as I wouldn't hesitate to have another one.

 

Peter.

No comparison because the 240 didn't have any CV joints as it wasn't front wheel drive. 

[bargemast]

15 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

No comparison because the 240 didn't have any CV joints as it wasn't front wheel drive. 

That's why I wrote in the first line that the 240's were rearwheel drive, and they had therefore only U-J's in their driveshafts.

 

Peter.

Edited April 15, 2017 by bargemast

[frahkn]

5 hours ago, Flyboy said:

I'm always amazed how some people think they know better that the manufacturers. Aquadrive are part of the GKN group have been making CV joints since the year dot so I reckon they know the limitations of their product quite well. 

Well certainly but GKN only started making Aquadrives some time after we rejected much of Aristotelean thought and came out of the dark ages. Since then, experimental evidence has gained ground as a reasonable way to achieve progress. I think that (even supposing my drive fails tomorrow) 14 years experimental results must count for something.

Remember that representatives for the earth's putative manufacturer spent many years burning those who suggested that it wasn't flat (nonetheless, it wasn't). 

Sadly I'm no longer amazed at those who do not attempt to understand a post before replying to it.

 

Frank.

[Tony Brooks]

My thoughts.

Yes CV joints drive through very severe angles on cars but as has been said they only do it for seconds. They also drive through angles caused by suspension movement. I think this ensures the grease keeps being moved about in the joint and pushed all over the track and balls. In a boat the drive is always driving through all but a fixed angle so the grease is likely to be pushed away from the balls and working part of the track. I think the reduced drive angle specified in effect derates the drive to account for this.

Again, as has been said, I do not understand why people will not RTFM and act on it.

[Ex Brummie]

The rubber drive shaft is 'housed in two metal shrouds on the gearbox and the prop shaft. The maximum misalignment is governed by the clearance of these shrouds, and 45 degrees is well out of bounds.

[Flyboy]

An Aquadrive is not a rubber coupling. It consists of 2 CV joints like a FWD car, the only rubber involved are the boots that keep the grease in and the dirt out.

[Bee]

Gearbox 'fell off' b***** hell, I think I would have to check all the bearings, driveplate and every other bit of machinery attached to the engine. There will also be a max. angle that the engine can be installed at and it will be a hell of a lot less than 45 degs. After that I would find out who installed the thing and punch him on the nose.

[Tony Brooks]

That is 45 degrees horizontally, not vertically. They moved the engine sideways to accommodate a generator so the engine is likely to  be level or within the maximum installation vertical angle.

[Bee]

On ‎17‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:16, Tony Brooks said:

That is 45 degrees horizontally, not vertically. They moved the engine sideways to accommodate a generator so the engine is likely to  be level or within the maximum installation vertical angle.

Oh of course...... silly me.

[bargemast]

45° horizontally or 45° vertically will always be an angle of 45°, and is way too much as a permanent angle for the CV's of a prop shaft.

 

Peter.