Digital radio switch-over this year?

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Ok, well you're better informed than me about this, but I read the Telegraph article and it didn't seem "sensationalist" to me.

Even the wording... "could trigger the beginning of the end". What does that even mean?

Today is the beginning of the end of the rest of my life. Hopefully that doesn't mean I'll drop dead tomorrow. 

[Athy]

23 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I listened. They stated that The Daily Telegraph ran a sensationalist article which stated that we might reach the 50% 'listening to DAB' point later this year, which could trigger a government consultation on switching off FM. 

Three points lead on from that. Firstly the 50% point might not be reached this year. Secondly it might not trigger a consultation immediately and even if it did that consultation might not conclude that switching off FM is a good idea. Thirdly, the government have stated that they would give at least 2 years notice before the actual switch off.  So, if the 50% target is reached, and if the government decided to have a consultation, and if the consultation concluded that we should lose FM transmission, then the earliest that could happen would be 2020.

 

The Torygraph is far from being a "sensationalist" paper - but, as Mrs. Athy and I remarked when listening to News at Ten, it was evident that yesterday was a "slow news day", so the DT had to fill its column inches somehow.

Another favourite method, used by sports journalists, is to invent a completely fictitious story - let's say, Wayne Rooney is going to sign for Tranmere Rovers. They phone him or his agent, who of course tells them it's rubbish. This prompts a headline like "Rooney Denies Tranmere Transfer Sensation", followed by a fact-free story. Column inches filled, job done.

[Robbo]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

What you are all overlooking is that the Government will make a fortune selling off the old FM frequencies. 

I suspect they will do it as soon as "the majority" is achieved.  However what criteria they use to determine when this has been achieved probably won't be widely published. 

On Wikipedia it states that majority includes listening via other sources as well such as via satellite, internet, etc. not just DAB.

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, Robbo said:

On Wikipedia it states that majority includes listening via other sources as well such as via satellite, internet, etc. not just DAB.

That is correct. Put inversely, when radio listening via FM becomes less than 50% they may decide to have a consultation which may result in turning off the FM transmissions at two or more years into the future. 

I have no idea how they determine this 50%, they've never asked me. 

[Robbo]

For me personally, I listen to my programs via Podcasts and I can only see this media getting more popular so I see the form of any type of broadcast been used less and less especially as for the majority of time the broadcasts are poor.   If the FM range can be utilised in a better way then it gets my vote.

[MoominPapa]

3 hours ago, Athy said:

But, if there are no radio transmissions on these frequencies, what would be their purpose? Two-way radio for minicab firms?

 

Radio spectrum is a very scarce resource with lots of competing uses. Quite a lot of the frequencies freed up by the TV digital switchover are now used for 4G mobile.

The advantage of moving to new modulation/coding methods is that they're much more efficient - you can transmit more TV/radio with less channel width, so there can be more statons, better quality and bandwidth left over for other uses.

 

Cheers,

 

MP.

 

 

 

 

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

And it was hugely controversial and unpopular. However, Norway has some unique problems. A population of only 5.5M people scattered across huge areas of fissures and fjords meant that getting FM to them was difficult and expensive. So the powers that be decided to simply not bother any longer and let the market sort itself out for solutions. 

I doubt our government is that brave or stupid. 

How do they get Digital Radio to the scattered population? Given that FM was already set up to some degree, surely the set up of DAB transmission has the same issues?

I've got DAB in my car but I've no idea how the station positioning is structured

[magpie patrick]

Not directly relevant I suppose but Frome FM have just had their FM licence renewed for another 5 years. We don't broadcast on DAB but we do in internet.  Our OFCOM licence relates to our FM activities.  

I have listened to Frome FM whilst driving around Staffordshire, using 4G internet and a laptop  (on the back seat so there is no question of me operating it whilst driving).  The general view is it is internet that will kill off our need for an FM licence not DAB. In car Wi-Fi is getting more common. 

The main purpose of our FM output is to ensure our broadcast is freely available in Frome. 

 

In the re-use of frequencies, I believe that modern mobile phones use the old 405 line VHF television frequencies. We probably don't yet have the devices that could use FM radio frequencies. 

[Arthur Marshall]

Long wave could go at any time - apparently the BBC has only one ancient transmitter for it and parts are like hens teeth. It's only real use now is for test match special and I think everyone listens to that on dab now! 

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Long wave could go at any time - apparently the BBC has only one ancient transmitter for it and parts are like hens teeth. It's only real use now is for test match special and I think everyone listens to that on dab now! 

I wonder if it will effect the shipping forecast. I imagine lw has a better range than fm and dab. 

[WotEver]

31 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

How do they get Digital Radio to the scattered population? Given that FM was already set up to some degree, surely the set up of DAB transmission has the same issues?

But the replacement for FM transmissions isn't only DAB, it's any form of digital transmission. Internet, GSM, DTV, whatever. 

[Athy]

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 12:37, Arthur Marshall said:

Long wave could go at any time - apparently the BBC has only one ancient transmitter for it and parts are like hens teeth. It's only real use now is for test match special and I think everyone listens to that on dab now! 

My Roberts R900, with its lovely big woody tone, is my preferred medium for listening to cricket - and being a 1980s model it does not have a DAB capability!

[Tim Lewis]

On 14/04/2017 at 12:57, WotEver said:

But the replacement for FM transmissions isn't only DAB, it's any form of digital transmission. Internet, GSM, DTV, whatever. 

I listen to the radio on DAB in the kitchen   and Freeview in the lounge, there is quite a time slip in them, it's like listening to two different episodes of the Archers!

 

Tim

Edited April 17, 2017 by Tim Lewis

[WotEver]

38 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

I listen to the radio on DAB in the kitchen   and Freeview in the lounge, there is quite a time slip in them, it's like listening to two different episodes of the Archers!

 

Tim

We have the same thing with Freeview TV in the kitchen and cable TV in the lounge. Surprisingly (well it surprised me), Freeview is later than Virgin cable. 

[Robbo]

39 minutes ago, WotEver said:

We have the same thing with Freeview TV in the kitchen and cable TV in the lounge. Surprisingly (well it surprised me), Freeview is later than Virgin cable. 

I think it's more the TV or STB than the actual broadcast.   Two Freeview TV's are more likely not to be in sync with each other either.

[Chewbacka]

I find it most odd that the railways managed to set a standard time across the UK, but as we have more and more technology so time has become more spread out.  Try setting your watch to the PIPS, they are different between FM, DAB and Virgin by a second or so.  I assume FM is the most accurate and that is the one they want to turn off............

[Robbo]

12 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I find it most odd that the railways managed to set a standard time across the UK, but as we have more and more technology so time has become more spread out.  Try setting your watch to the PIPS, they are different between FM, DAB and Virgin by a second or so.  I assume FM is the most accurate and that is the one they want to turn off............

Most clocks don't need to be set these days, which reminds me off...

Your DAB clock should be correct automatically, so set your watch by that and not the pips on the radio.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Robbo

[DHutch]

On 14/04/2017 at 10:15, WotEver said:

 "could trigger the beginning of the end". What does that even mean?

Nothing.

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

I listen to the radio on DAB in the kitchen   and Freeview in the lounge, there is quite a time slip in them, it's like listening to two different episodes of the Archers!

Getting back to this, if questioned you would state that 100% of your listening was digital. Do you never listen in the car?  I'd say that 90% of my radio listening is in the car. 

[DHutch]

I don't own a DAB, find mobile signal too patchy to use in the car, so do 10,000 miles a year listening to Radio 1 in my 16yo car. Hopefully it's a while till they turn it off.

Daniel

[Tim Lewis]

59 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Getting back to this, if questioned you would state that 100% of your listening was digital. Do you never listen in the car?  I'd say that 90% of my radio listening is in the car. 

My car has a DAB radio installed, It spends a large percentage of the time tuned to Radio 4 extra, 6music and Absolute, all on DAB.

Tim

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

My car has a DAB radio installed, It spends a large percentage of the time tuned to Radio 4 extra, 6music and Absolute, all on DAB.

Tim

Techno kid

[Ratkatcher]

I put a DAB headset in my car to replace the broken FM radio, added a signal amplifier to give a little compensation for the 'FM' aerial incompatibility and found that reception (particularly in the Welsh Valleys where I then lived) on DAB was not particularly predictable, often being non-existent.  I did try one of the on glass DAB antennas but found the result to be the same as the car aerial.

Result was that DAB head unit was removed and replaced with a conventional FM one, apart from a couple of known dead spots it works  - particularly where the DAB unit just sulked...

Maybe Wales doesn't count for the magic 50% as it is almost unpopulated in comparison to much of England   Even if there are so many beautiful views to be had!

The DAB unit will make its way onto the boat in the near future, replacing the (still original - and working) LW/MW pushbutton unit onboard.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Ratkatcher said:

I put a DAB headset in my car to replace the broken FM radio, added a signal amplifier to give a little compensation for the 'FM' aerial incompatibility and found that reception (particularly in the Welsh Valleys where I then lived) on DAB was not particularly predictable, often being non-existent.  I did try one of the on glass DAB antennas but found the result to be the same as the car aerial.

Result was that DAB head unit was removed and replaced with a conventional FM one, apart from a couple of known dead spots it works  - particularly where the DAB unit just sulked...

Maybe Wales doesn't count for the magic 50% as it is almost unpopulated in comparison to much of England   Even if there are so many beautiful views to be had!

The DAB unit will make its way onto the boat in the near future, replacing the (still original - and working) LW/MW pushbutton unit onboard.

I might be talking utter tripe (usually do) but I wonder if DAB is going to get bypassed with streaming internet radio? 

I think FM will be around for a few more years (hope so just cobbled up an FM radio.)

Edited April 20, 2017 by Guest

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, catweasel said:

I might be talking utter tripe (usually do) but I wonder if DAB is going to get bypassed with streaming internet radio

I don't think you're talking tripe at all. You will find several commentators who believe the same - DAB was a technology out of its time and never really took off in the way it was hoped. Only time will tell.