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canoe etiquette?


wobbly ollie

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Is there clear guidelines re the etiquette around canoes on the canal? We were planning on a day out over easter from our K&A marina mooring however there is a Bradford to Teddington canoe race taking place. As newbies i am wondering whether we best just keep off the canal out of the way until everyone has passed through which will probably be after mid morning Sunday.

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I always keep out of the way of narrow boats when in my canoe as i am much more maneuverable and only draw about 10cm, so although I have right of way over powered boats it just makes sense to do it the other way! 

I have not heard of a Bradford to Teddington race, I have heard (and taken part in) the Devizes to Westminster, may be Bradford to Teddington replaces it as the Devizes Westminster always happens Easter weekend. When I did it the K and A wasn't fully restored so we had no issue with powered boats. 

Racers will probably be less likely to want to give way but if you just act it a predictable fashion I am sure they will find a way round you, adopt a steady speed slightly to the right of centre of the channel and let themselves sort themselves out.

Have a good trip!

  • Greenie 1
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I very much doubt the competitors in that race will be any trouble to you because they are enthusiasts and have been at it for a while. What you need to worry about are the day hire canoes form Bradford. They have no idea how to behave, you will have them in your blind spots right under the bow trying to race you, cutting across the canal at the last minute and proceeding at a snails pace in a big raft and so on. Similar with some youngsters from canoe/boating clubs else where but they usually have a supervisor to put them right.

I would advise a lookout in the bow between Bradford and the Somerset Coal Canal.

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You have every right to take your boat out unless the waterway is officially closed.  I have, unintentionally, cruised through a canoe race, I kept a steady course slightly right of centre allowing the canoes sufficient room to pass.  The general rule, although there are exceptions  is that "the most manuoverable boat" should give way.

  • Greenie 1
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe this shows a good reason why there is need for training - EVEN on the Canals.

 

Wrong advice is worse than no advice.

So very true and its what made my job harder on the Trent in Nottingham with millions of numpties in canoes and the Sailing club members who actualy thought they had precedence over us on the Princess. We quite often had to inform their various clubs by fone or in person of actualy what the precedure is and under what conditions.

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The race is from Devizes to Westminster. There is no race anywhere else on the K&A or Thames over easter. Speaking as an experienced canoe racer and a narrowboater the most important advice I would give to a narrowboater is... just carry on doing exactly what you always do, do nothing unusual, travel a steady path at your normal speed. That way the extremely agile and fast canoes will be able to predict what you are doing and zoom past you with no conflicts. The only exception would be as you come into lock landings. The canoes are portaging here and that is a very fast and skilful manoeuvre. If you arrive at a lock alongside a racing canoe let them go ahead, it will take them somewhere between one and five seconds to be clear and out of your way. And as you tie up at a lock landing try to leave spaces at either end for the canoeists to leap out. The Devizes to Westminster is a major international canoe race. In the canoe world it would have a standing alongside events like the London Marathon or the Tour de France. But unlike those events there is no desire to close the roads off to other users during the event. So enjoy your grandstand seat to watch some of the finest canoe racers in the world!

  • Greenie 4
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When I was a lad I canoed on the Thames nearly every day for about 4 years, including racing, group cruises and the like, and we always gave way to powered vessels even though the channel was wide and they were not constrained by draft.  Nobody knew anything about colregs, it was just common sense.

.......................  oh, I forgot, common sense isn't permitted any more.  :banghead:

The best fun was trying to surf on the wake of the big salter's steamers, but our slalom canoes couldn't keep up with them.  I don't think they respected any speed limits in their heyday.

 

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51 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

When I was a lad I canoed on the Thames nearly every day for about 4 years, including racing, group cruises and the like, and we always gave way to powered vessels even though the channel was wide and they were not constrained by draft.  Nobody knew anything about colregs, it was just common sense.

.......................  oh, I forgot, common sense isn't permitted any more.  :banghead:

The best fun was trying to surf on the wake of the big salter's steamers, but our slalom canoes couldn't keep up with them.  I don't think they respected any speed limits in their heyday.

 

They don't nowadays either! However, there aren't many of them left sadly - so not a problem or a challenge.

Most of their crews are true watermen - so give them a cheery wave and pull over to let them pass...

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On the K&A in the last few days of March, especially around Devizes, we saw a lot of very fit looking canoeists zooming along, presumably contestants practicing for this race. They're no problem. On a narrowboat the best method is to follow a steady course near the middle as usual so that the canoeists and rowers know where you're going, because they can easily dodge us and can use shallow water in a crisis. Most will soon pick a side to pass on, but a few don't realise they should and an oncoming rower facing the other way might sometimes not turn to look often enough. When I see one lingering too long in my path I give them a blast on the horn which tends to concentrate their minds, then I slow down a bit, but in the end I don't want to run anyone over, so I'm ready to turn aside or reverse when necessary to save lives. It hasn't come to that yet.

Those Salters boats don't hang about, but as for any boat carrying passengers or cargo I'm happy to give way to them, they're doing it for a living and need the deeper water. We didn't see one on the move during our two days Reading to Oxford last week, probably because it's early in the season, but I have come across them on other trips and it would be a bit worrying if one appeared round a bend at one of the tighter spots on the river at an inconvenient moment.

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34 minutes ago, Peter X said:

On the K&A in the last few days of March, especially around Devizes, we saw a lot of very fit looking canoeists zooming along, presumably contestants practicing for this race. They're no problem. On a narrowboat the best method is to follow a steady course near the middle as usual so that the canoeists and rowers know where you're going, because they can easily dodge us and can use shallow water in a crisis. Most will soon pick a side to pass on, but a few don't realise they should and an oncoming rower facing the other way might sometimes not turn to look often enough. When I see one lingering too long in my path I give them a blast on the horn which tends to concentrate their minds, then I slow down a bit, but in the end I don't want to run anyone over, so I'm ready to turn aside or reverse when necessary to save lives. It hasn't come to that yet.

 

I have never ever seen a rower on the K&A, the canal is simply too narrow for a rowing boat.

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1 hour ago, Peter X said:

 

Those Salters boats don't hang about, but as for any boat carrying passengers or cargo I'm happy to give way to them, they're doing it for a living and need the deeper water. 

couple of years ago I followed one out of Sonning lock going east - it had great difficulty under the road bridge - scraping on the gravelly bottom at full throttle.  horrible noises!  

it needed all the space it could find.   once clear of the bridge it moved much faster than I could go in my yogurt pot - I would guess 8 knots.

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5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I very much doubt the competitors in that race will be any trouble to you because they are enthusiasts and have been at it for a while. What you need to worry about are the day hire canoes form Bradford. They have no idea how to behave, you will have them in your blind spots right under the bow trying to race you, cutting across the canal at the last minute and proceeding at a snails pace in a big raft and so on. Similar with some youngsters from canoe/boating clubs else where but they usually have a supervisor to put them right.

I would advise a lookout in the bow between Bradford and the Somerset Coal Canal.

 

An extremely grumpy and misleading post. I have invariably found those hiring the canoes as courteous and considerate and safety-aware to the point of generally ducking in between moored boats to keep out one's way. Whether this is down to an excellent briefing from Dick and Jane's or simply the way normal people behave when having fun I don't know.

If boater's behave in the way you describe, they are usually on narrow boats. 

 

1 hour ago, WJM said:

I have never ever seen a rower on the K&A, the canal is simply too narrow for a rowing boat.

What is about people and the kennet and avon. Utter bollocks. I have spent many a happy hour in my rowing boat, to be found anywhere between Burghfield and Bristol

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30 minutes ago, hounddog said:

 

An extremely grumpy and misleading post. I have invariably found those hiring the canoes as courteous and considerate and safety-aware to the point of generally ducking in between moored boats to keep out one's way. Whether this is down to an excellent briefing from Dick and Jane's or simply the way normal people behave when having fun I don't know.

If boaters behave in the way you describe, they are usually on narrow boats.

I think we all have a responsibility as boaters to try to make sure nobody (including canoeists) gets hurt.

In the real world, slowing down and keeping your eyes open is the best you can do. Right of navigation doesn't come into it, although it is good to know that as the steerer of a vessel constrained by its draught I do have that right.  Rights have concomitant responsibilities.

Edited by Machpoint005
(sp)
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1 hour ago, hounddog said:

 

An extremely grumpy and misleading post. I have invariably found those hiring the canoes as courteous and considerate and safety-aware to the point of generally ducking in between moored boats to keep out one's way. Whether this is down to an excellent briefing from Dick and Jane's or simply the way normal people behave when having fun I don't know.

If boater's behave in the way you describe, they are usually on narrow boats. 

 

What is about people and the kennet and avon. Utter bollocks. I have spent many a happy hour in my rowing boat, to be found anywhere between Burghfield and Bristol

Neither grumpy or misleading - I speak as I find and the twice I boated that stretch I found it very concerning. The canoeists from Thrupp and Cropedy I have found to be far more responsible that those from Bradford on Avon.

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2 hours ago, hounddog said:

What is about people and the kennet and avon. Utter bollocks. I have spent many a happy hour in my rowing boat, to be found anywhere between Burghfield and Bristol

I took rowing boat in the context of this post (canoe and kayak racing) to mean rowing shells propelled by sweepers and scullers.

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