Jump to content

swapping property for boats


barmyfluid

Featured Posts

Well. I came *so* close to buying a liveaboard last year after selling my house, but decided to get a small (widebeam sized) flat instead, for all the level headed reasons of security, investment, and not being too far from my elderly dad 'just in case'. I was literally unpacking my last box  a few weeks before Christmas when I got a phone call from him detailing a really serious diagnosis. I promptly shut everything up and I've since been his carer full time, operations and radiotherapy, though I've just got a few weeks break. Rest of the year will be helping him pass on as well as can be managed.

I'm glad I got the flat, as it really was a matter of turn the water off, lock the door and forget it (didn't go back for 3 months), but despite it's lovely location in the Peak District (biscuit tin views, grade II building) my heart really isn't in it. I really wanted the boat, and getting another mortality wake-up call made me realize that's what I should do while I'm still fit enough, even if it all goes horribly wrong, I hate it and end up a poor pensioner without a pot to piss in.

Thinking about it, that's what my Mum and Dad did in 1979, sold up a house they'd scraped and grafted to buy, moved into a caravan by the sea, rented evermore. Wasn't always easy, remember the first 2 years being really rough, but both of them were so happy in the end, dad still is.

Will be towards the end of the year or after before I can do anything, but I wanted to think ahead.

There are various property/boat swap sites around, but they all seem rich-mans white gin palace for villa on the Algarve type places. Any stories or advice of UK liveaboards who directly swapped/px'd boats for property? It was hellish selling my house, stuff in storage, homeless for 8 months, hellish buying process...would be nice to have an easier process next time.

bx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My advice would be to rent out your flat now, live at your dad's full time and save up for a boat and top up with a loan if necessary which could be paid back with the rent money, this way you will always have an investment and a place to go back to if needed.

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

My advice would be to rent out your flat now, live at your dad's full time and save up for a boat and top up with a loan if necessary which could be paid back with the rent money, this way you will always have an investment and a place to go back to if needed.

Neil

 

That was my thought as well.

I would be reluctant to give up the flat since there is a significant cost every time you move.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No doubt he doesn't want to hear this but I  agree with the above as well.

I've certainly never heard of anyone swapping a house/flat for a narrowboat and I would strongly advise against it.

Wait until you can have your cake and eat it, you may well be thinking now life's too short but the ways things are heading in this country you do not want to be throwing yourself on the mercy of the state in old age.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the replies. I don't disagree with the points, and the security for old age (especially in this political climate) and lack of depreciation was one of my level headed deciding factors in getting it, but renting out right now isn't an option, as that's take weeks I don't have of emptying for storage, arranging the legalities, probably fitting new boiler, shower, and then I'm going to be a 3 hour drive away...it's nowhere near rentable really.

Down the line, I wouldn't have the cash to buy a boat then rent either unless I got a loan and risked (and I've been warned off renting by friends who've had non-paying tenant nightmares) rental income to pay it off, which'd put me back into the position of debt that I'm thankfully not in anymore.

I have looked a variations of the French Viager schemes, which AFAIK would be contractual and doable in the UK. Something like: Liveaboards in later life who are now having trouble coping with the physical aspects of life on the cut, exchange boat for lifetime contract to live rent free in flat/house but maintain property during that time, property reverts to owner when the last of them pass on, however long that may be.

There's certainly no end of people who've sold up property to buy boats, which is the default option, I just had such a crap and stressful time selling, moving, storing, living in my car, trying to buy, falling through, and then another protracted buy that I just wondered what the sidestep situation was. Like I said, it's certainly done, just mostly for luxury boats from what I've seen, and more abroad. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depending on the value of the flat you could get a lifetime mortgage which would release up to 50% of its value as cash. No repayments, a lump sum in your hand and the security of knowing the flat is still there. 

That's assuming you're over 60. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are truly thinking about swapping your flat for a boat after you have looked after your father, you are obviously considering having a boat and no flat.

if that is the case, why not convert the flat back into money during the time that you need neither the flat, nor a boat. Then, when you are ready to buy a boat, you are a cash buyer with the whole of the market to look at.

The alternative is that you will be looking for someone with a boat that you like, who also likes and wants your particular flat, at a monetary deal that suits both of you. I'd say the chances of achieving this alternative are Slim to Nil and, as they say, "Slim has left town". Money was invented to avoid this kind of thing, and you are in a good position to take advantage of it.

All things being equal, in the current market, it tends to take about 6 months from placing a property on the market to having the money.

Edited by Richard10002
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone who has been through the buying and selling process in recent years will sympathise with the OP's sentiments, it is a nightmarish situation in England, designed to make lots of money for estate agents and solicitors whilst having the potential to drive the poor customer(s) to a nervous breakdown.  I never want to have to do it again. But the reality is what is being proposed just simply isn't a practical solution and even if it was, there is no guarantee that a house-boat swap would be any less problematic than a straight sale.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you will find that most estate agents would rather there was more certainty in the system and that it actually loses them more money than it makes. Solicitors could do more to help things by solving problems rather than seeking them out and making a big issue of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

Depending on the value of the flat you could get a lifetime mortgage which would release up to 50% of its value as cash. No repayments, a lump sum in your hand and the security of knowing the flat is still there. 

That's assuming you're over 60. 

Nope, I'm 48. It wouldn't be a bad option otherwise, did look at it.

2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

Anyone who has been through the buying and selling process in recent years will sympathise with the OP's sentiments, it is a nightmarish situation in England, designed to make lots of money for estate agents and solicitors whilst having the potential to drive the poor customer(s) to a nervous breakdown. 

It was really awful. Thing is, when I first bought a house it was a private sale between me and my boss at work, no estate agents, really easy and stress free, so I know you don't always have to play the game to the nth degree, but I know luck plays a part in it too, you can have problems develop in any situation.

I don't see any legal reason why a property/boat exchange couldn't happen, property would always be seen as the more solid deal (more boat for the buck) and there do seem to be companies and people out there doing/seeking it:

http://www.homemove.co.uk/forums/narrow-boat-swap-4534.html

http://pxboats.com/index.php/sv-fanai/

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Equity release I was thinking too if you have no dependants?

 

that way when you endure an 8 month dismal winter/autumn/lsate spring on the cut and you have had enough to can go back to a home.

Edited by mark99
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, mark99 said:

Equity release I was thinking too if you have no dependants?

 

that way when you endure an 8 month dismal winter on the cut and you have had enough to can go back to a home.

I'm too young, you need to be at least 55. To be honest, I just want rid of that part of my life and I'd like to turn my back on as much of the game as possible. If I didn't have so many good friends in the UK I'd just head off for somewhere where you're not actively persecuted for trying to opt out of 'normal' UK life. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, barmyfluid said:

I'm too young, you need to be at least 55. To be honest, I just want rid of that part of my life and I'd like to turn my back on as much of the game as possible. If I didn't have so many good friends in the UK I'd just head off for somewhere where you're not actively persecuted for trying to opt out of 'normal' UK life. 

Ok. But it will be most likely a one way journey - a big decision to make when vulnerable due to life being a shite.

 

Rent it out and bugger off for the latter part of the year (hire a boat) when it's not so nice on water and if you still love it then great.

 

Atb.

Edited by mark99
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a bonkers idea Sir if you ll forgive my bluntness . 

To explain why , a little about myself . 

I am now 44 . I am financially worth bugger all . As a younger man all i wanted to do with myself was travel the world . So i did . Time and again , round and round . I was hooked on backpacking . I was determined to travel whilst i was young and in good health . 

So , whilst everyone else was settling into such excitement as career , mortgages and 2.4 children i knew i was jeopardising my eventual old age . I didn t care . I wanted to live my life , my way - a different way . So i did it . 

I knew a price would be paid later in life . I m paying now . Once i ended my travels i moved to London . As a chef , work was easy to find and i began to sort myself out a bit . 

I have , as stated above , absoloutely zero faith that my country or " the state " will be of any use to me by the time im old & past retirement . This nations political class cannot look after its young so they aren t going to give a flying f*** about its aged . 

So , 4 years ago i began learning " The Knowledge " . I really cannot describe how torturous this experience is . It has crucified me mentally . All being well , i ll be finished by the end of the summer - i ll have to wait and see .

Why ? Because driving a cab in London pays well , its secure . A job for life in a country where such notions are now only history . It will enable me to work & save and put aside for old age . It will be the pension i never had .  If i squirrell it away wisely it will enable me ( maybe ) to arrange a home of my own that i own for the time in later life when i have to give up my boat . I wont be buying anywhere near London though thats for sure !

You Sir have in your possession the very thing i have studied so so hard for - a home , a guarantee of sorts for later life . You ought to think very very hard before throwing it away . 

In my opinion you should grind on thru ( a concept familiar to all knowledge boys ) whatever hassles are involved and get that place sorted , rented and providing an income even if its not a big one . Use this income to bring about your boating ambitions whilst secure in the knowledge that if uou dont like it , or you get ill , or infirm etc you will always have that home waiting for you . 

Just my thoughts ..

cheers

Edited by chubby
  • Greenie 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I just can't see any reason to think that swapping a flat for a boat is going to be any easier or less stressful than selling the flat and buying a boat. I mean, you still need to find a 'buyer' (who just happens to own the right boat for you and want rid of it!), all the legal business (searches, contracts, land registry etc.) is still going to need taking care of... and whatever solicitor you use is going to need to get their head round a completely off-the-beaten track transaction involving a boat rather than cash.

And I don't understand this suggestion about 'viager' schemes. They're designed to let owners sell their houses but continue living in them until they die, aren't they? Who's going to want to move out of their house (onto a boat?) until such time as the purchaser dies? How are you going to find that person? Who's going to draw up this one-off contract to let you live in a house until you die in exchange for a boat?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I agree, not for the first time, with Mr Chubby.  You often hear folk say oh live for today you could fall under a bus tomorrow. Well yes, but the chances are these days you will probably live for a very long time, and believe me,  in your forties you have no idea what your outlook on life will be in twenty years time.  

It worries me that so many young people in this country have given up on home ownership.  That would be fine if we lived in a country like Germany where the economy isn't so property obsessed, but in the UK it is, and I can't see how this will change anytime soon.  Preparing for your retirement years has never been so important - at least they seem to be getting the message across in schools now - and in this respect owning your own home is still the most sensible move you can make.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to thank everyone for the time they put into this discussion, and I don't disagree with any of the advice and sentiments regarding this country, security of property or providing for ones old age one bit really.

Thanks Chubby for the heartfelt post - thing is, we've lead quite opposite lives and sound like we're very different people. My dad is the tail end of a decade long string of losses and mortality wake ups  (beginning with losing my late partner) and it's more than a feeling of 'could get run over by a bus tomorrow' for me. I'm 48, probably got another 30 years if I'm lucky, really can't see me wanting any more than that, no kids....

Yes, it's bonkers, ill advised, stupid.  

15 hours ago, magictime said:

And I don't understand this suggestion about 'viager' schemes. They're designed to let owners sell their houses but continue living in them until they die, aren't they?

I did say variations upon - there are lots of them, but at heart viager schemes are all about equity release, which is what I was describing, and it was just a thought. In theory it's a matter of 2 willing parties signing a mutually beneficial contract, not something Joe Conveyance would know about true, but hardly legal rocket science to draw up.

I'm not surprised my OP elicited so many responses from people angry, suspicious, afraid of where our country is going with respect to providing for its elderly, cost of housing and general dehumanizing of it's populous, but I have to say this - everyone seems very resigned and depressed by the system but seem to suggest that the only thing to do about it is to run deeper into it's arms, play the UK property game and die comfortably. That's not in any way a bad thing per se, for most people that's doing well and family life, but if you're unhappy and want something different in life, it's a pretty dismal outlook.

To quote the great Eddie Hitler "You're born, you keep your head down and then you die - if you're lucky!"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep you are 48 . You wont get any younger . Eventually u will be " old " . Me too .If you believe that the state aren t going to be there to help then disposing of a valuable asset isn t going to help in any way whatsoever . I dont like that the future looks bleak . But im realist not an idealist . Thats what i will have to deal with so i m noaw taking measures in an attempt to deal with it . Maybe i ll succeed , maybe not , but im not going to expect anything from my nation in old age 

So  - you want " sieze the day " and begin afresh . Good . But whether you like it , or i like it , or not things in this country are only going to get worse . For me Britain is a broken nation . Its finished . Its attempting to cling on to idea that its important . It is not . Things will worse as you and me approach old age . 

Why pass on the one thing that can mitigate the affects of British political ineptitude & indifference ? That property is a means to live in a degree of security in your later years . 

i appreciate entirely that uou want rid of it , to turn the page and move on . But i think it would be a monumental error long term & uou will bitterly regret your decision if u go ahead . Though it won t be straightforward i believe u need to fnd a way to use it to provide for your boating ambitions . This may take time - that cannot be helped . Things worth achieving rarely come easily . But you stick with it because you know eventually it will be worthwhile . 

You would not be " embracing " the property game , nor exploiting it , but " utilising " it . You could rent it at reasonable fees - good for you , good for the tenant  . You win , they win . 

Ive always believed  the rat race to be a mugs game . Even if you win youre still a rat ! But YOU don t have to be rat . Get that place sorted , use it to generate the lifestyle you seek . Be a fair landlord . Wheres that embracing the property game madness ? It isn t . 

If all else fails .... i ll take it off your hands for my boat !! 

cheers

 

Edited by chubby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny, isn't it? Someone who managed to retire at 50 and spend the next 15 years travelling the world before returning to the UK to claim a full state pension and live in a house he owned outright would be widely regarded as a model of the sort of life you can aspire to with a bit of planning and prudence. Chubby is seemingly set to achieve the same thing, except that he did his travelling in his 20s and 30s, and yet he's almost presenting himself as somebody making up for past mistakes!

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good thread this one . 

Me - no making up for " mistakes " here Sir . Making up for other things , making up for shortfalls here and there but making up for mistakes ? No way . 

Abandoning the normal routine & seeing the world was and always will be the best thing i have ever done with myself . As a teenager i knew there was no way i would ever get on with the normal way of doing things . I tried it and then i ditched it . 

I do occasionally find it hard to accept that the best i ll ever do with my three score & ten are behind me . At least temporarily . 

I knew all along that i d pay the price later on in life . These thoughts were not at the front of my mind tho as i cycled and camped my way around easter island , or as i journeyed thru the Swat valley or whilst snorkelling with whale sharks in The Phillipines for the princely sum of 20 USD . But i knew tough times were ahead . They aren t ahead anymore - theyre right here right now . Ho hum . 

Rather than whinge im trying to do something about it . It might work it might not . If i fail i can accept that as i know ive pushed myself as hard as i can in whatever ive tried to do . 

I admire those who " got on " in life . But i weren t cut out for it and trying to shoehorn myself into the normal routines of life would probably have mullered me . 

My biggest fear as a youngster was the idea of laying in my death bed - facing my mortality & thinking " F*** Me - that was a waste of time wasn t it ?" . 

It still is .

But when that day comes i know the answer to question 

cheers

Edited by chubby
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's so much of that last post that I could just take away reference to age and relate to myself right now, though to be fair on myself, I've not led an uninteresting life so far, only got into the property lark in my 30's, and that was at the prompting of my late partner rather than me desiring it, and I've done (and continue to do) my moral duties to loved ones.

1 hour ago, chubby said:

My biggest fear as a youngster was the idea of laying in my death bed - facing my mortality & thinking " F*** Me - that was a waste of wasn t it ?" . 

It still is .

Absolutely, both as a teenager and right now. Even remember writing it down in one of the legion bedsits of youth.

I'm not blind to how vulnerable we are at old age,  I'm looking after a dying 80 year old in a rented bungalow! He's also a great role model of trying to find your dreams and risking all to do so. Both he and my late mum grew up in slums, didn't have shoes, proper poverty. They scraped and ground their way into a lovely suburban house, huge garden, remember it well. Still, at the age of 40, to escape the late 70's steel crash of Sheffield and the city life forever they sold for a pittance to a relative, moved into a caravan on the coast, endured some really rough and poor years, and never, *ever* looked back without saying 'Best thing we ever did'. Of course, could all have gone tits up, but they were strong, good people with a dream. That's not something so easy to destroy. 

Even though we're way OT, I'm glad this thread provoked such interesting responses.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, chubby said:

Me - no making up for " mistakes " here Sir . Making up for other things , making up for shortfalls here and there but making up for mistakes ? No way .

I quite agree - from the tone of your original post, I wasn't quite sure if you saw it that way or not.

And I'm sure you have more to look forward to than a long slog towards owning a property in time for retirement. There are still plenty of nice enough little places to be had outside the south east for well under £100k; with a bit of motivation and a decent income, owning such a place could be a ten-year rather than a twenty-year plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, magictime said:

I quite agree - from the tone of your original post, I wasn't quite sure if you saw it that way or not.

And I'm sure you have more to look forward to than a long slog towards owning a property in time for retirement. There are still plenty of nice enough little places to be had outside the south east for well under £100k; with a bit of motivation and a decent income, owning such a place could be a ten-year rather than a twenty-year plan.

You have hit the nail on the head Sir . Even if i could afford & get the necessary loans to buy in SE England i wouldn t do it . My half arsed plan is to combine working hard  with boating often . Im a humble chap , don t need much in the way of frills . Work hard , earn well , save wisely . Then go & buy someone well away from London , maybe somewhere oop norf ( if they ll have me !) , near a canal would be good . Just an idea , not yet a defo , but gotta strive on i think & yes - i think you re correct again to say 10 years rather than twenty as i don t intend to slog myself half to death but enough to organise a nice , simple humble place  - that ll suit me down to the ground 

cheers

 

Edited by chubby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an enjoyable thread apart from the obvious no fighting and rows just various peoples opinions and past lives.

I joined the ARMY as a boy left at 38 with a medical discharge have a 3 good pensions all tax free, I have seen a lot of the world and been paid for going there, some bits were definitely better than others. We early on bought a cottage in Scotland with 3 acres of land, did it up and rented it out, when I finished we moved in and were separated 2 years later [it seems that separation does make the heart grow fonder] .

So I decided on a boating life, various lady friends tried to talk me out of it but it was what I wanted, I am in my second boat and living my life to the full, retired at 57 2 years ago, but have loads to do so never bored and Jayne my better half loves boating. Would I swap my life? not a chance but that does not mean that I want Jayne to give up her bungalow either.

So in conclusion only you know what you want from life if you dont do it your last thoughts as you shuffle of will be what if, whereas mine  will be could I have fitted in more. So read our words and do what you want to do and enjoy it

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.