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How accurate is my Smartgauge?


MtB

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Its all very well all this " oh just bin it , its a lovely sunny day , have another beer , throw another shrimp on the barbie , boat off into the sunset blah blah blah " but i would ask how many of those making such comments live on thier boat off grid without shoreline connection ? 

The reason ask is because unless you do so or have done then its quite easy to overlook the importance of battery monitors .

No doubt from time to time there will be the odd dodgy one & there can be debates as to which is best & which is easiest to interpret etc but to me such devices are an absolute boon . If i got a new boat tomorrow the first thing buy for it is solar equipment and a smartgauge . 

Im off grid and liveaboard . My batteries are important cos i dont have a nice shoreline to plug in . I need to be mindful of the state of my batteries so i can use them without damaging them . Batteries are a disposable item but that dont mean i ll be adhering to the principle of " sod it ... just abuse em and bin em " . What a very 21st century modern British mentallity . Shameful in my opinion . 

When my batteries give up then ill spend on new ones but of course but i will try to look after them as i rely on them to service my boat ... my home & because if i spend my hard earnt on something i like to try to look after it . If you liveaboard i suspect changing the batteries very regularly will become an expensive chore . Removing , transferring to car , buying ,  transferring to boat , refitting - why go thru that process more often than necessary ? 

All this " care " or " diligence " over ones batteries becomes more relevant in winter when solar input is less reliable and so trustworthy gauges are even more worthwhile . 

So for those on a shoreline who have a " boating season " - you carry on up the cut  into the sunset - with your beer in one hand and your barbecue tongs in the other because if you don t live - on then you re ignorant of why someone would would want to try to understand the relative health of thier batteries . 

 

Edited by chubby
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6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:


A bit like Smartgauges then...

The smartguage should be inaccurate by a constant percentage.   An amp counter % guage is a moving target throughout the batteries life.

 

Do you have solar?   I understood Smartguages aren't brilliant with solar.

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3 minutes ago, chubby said:

Its all very well all this " oh just bin it , its a lovely sunny day , have another beer , throw another shrimp on the barbie , boat off into the sunset blah blah blah " but i would ask how many of those making such comments live on thier boat off grid without shoreline connection ? 

The reason ask is because unless you do so or have done then its quite easy to overlook the importance of battery monitors .

No doubt from time to time there will be the odd dodgy one & there can be debates as to which is best & which is easiest to interpret etc but to me such devices are an absolute boon . If i got a new boat tomorrow the first thing buy for it is solar equipment and a smartgauge . 

Im off grid and liveaboard . My batteries are important cos i dont have a nice shoreline to plug in . I need to be mindful of the state of my batteries so i can use them without damaging them . Batteries are a disposable item but that dont mean i ll be adhering to the principle of " sod it ... just abuse em and bin em " . What a very 21st century modern British mentallity . Shameful in my opinion . 

When my batteries give up then ill spend on new ones but of course but i will try to look after them as i rely on them to service my boat ... my home & because if i spend my hard earnt on something i like to try to look after it . If you liveaboard i suspect changing the batteries very regularly will become an expensive chore . Removing , transferring to car , buying ,  transferring to boat , refitting - why go thru that process more often than necessary ? 

All this " care " or " diligence " over ones batteries becomes more relevant in winter when solar input is less reliable and so trustworthy gauges are even more worthwhile . 

So for those on a shoreline who have a " boating season " - you carry on up the cut  into the sunset - with your beer in one hand and your barbecue tongs in the other because if you don t live - on then you re ignorant of why someone would would want to try to understand the relative health of thier batteries . 

 

I'm off grid, live on my boat, no fancy monitor just a cheap thing that shows the voltage of my batteries, I check it a few times a day and charge when I feel I need to, it cost less than £10.

I did think about fitting a decent gauge and a shunt and reading up but I got bored, I run a 240v fridge, 240v tv and my xbox one, 240v washer also.

I bought a cheap set of batteries last year and they are starting to show signs of not being up to the job, but at £150 for three of them I care not and will simply change them this year.

I agree that you need to check batteries, but the summer is here, solar is back and looks after most of my needs, I run the engine when the washer is on and that's it.

Time to chuck another battery on the barbeee!

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24 minutes ago, chubby said:

Its all very well all this " oh just bin it , its a lovely sunny day , have another beer , throw another shrimp on the barbie , boat off into the sunset blah blah blah " but i would ask how many of those making such comments live on thier boat off grid without shoreline connection ? 

The reason ask is because unless you do so or have done then its quite easy to overlook the importance of battery monitors .

No doubt from time to time there will be the odd dodgy one & there can be debates as to which is best & which is easiest to interpret etc but to me such devices are an absolute boon . If i got a new boat tomorrow the first thing buy for it is solar equipment and a smartgauge . 

Im off grid and liveaboard . My batteries are important cos i dont have a nice shoreline to plug in . I need to be mindful of the state of my batteries so i can use them without damaging them . Batteries are a disposable item but that dont mean i ll be adhering to the principle of " sod it ... just abuse em and bin em " . What a very 21st century modern British mentallity . Shameful in my opinion . 

When my batteries give up then ill spend on new ones but of course but i will try to look after them as i rely on them to service my boat ... my home & because if i spend my hard earnt on something i like to try to look after it . If you liveaboard i suspect changing the batteries very regularly will become an expensive chore . Removing , transferring to car , buying ,  transferring to boat , refitting - why go thru that process more often than necessary ? 

All this " care " or " diligence " over ones batteries becomes more relevant in winter when solar input is less reliable and so trustworthy gauges are even more worthwhile . 

So for those on a shoreline who have a " boating season " - you carry on up the cut  into the sunset - with your beer in one hand and your barbecue tongs in the other because if you don t live - on then you re ignorant of why someone would would want to try to understand the relative health of thier batteries . 

 

 

Big phat greenie for all of that, Mr Chubby.

In addition, the oft repeated advice to 'get more solar, it will keep the batteries charged for nine months of the year' is trite and grates heavily with me, as it is the remaining three months when batteries need the most care and attention.

The point of this thread is not to find a solution to my battery problems, but to highlight to visitors here the unreliability of a Smartgauge straight from the box. Until a year ago the Smartgauge was universally promoted on here as the panacea to all battery problems. Batteries not charging up properly? Get a Smartgauge then you can see what's going on... Sorted!

So I got myself one and err no, it totally failed to save me from ruining a new set of batteries because stupidly, I believed what it said on the display*.

 

* I know the small print in the manual says "Don't ever rely on what it says on the display" (paraphrased), but that is partly the point I am making.

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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6 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Just go back to a good old fashioned calibrated volt meter and ammeter.

It will be easier in the long run.

There is something to be said for that.   

 

I have a amp meter type monitor (Victron), as long as you don't regard the % gauge as accurate it does tell you when it's reached 100% accurately( or should that be 99.9%) as it uses the amps and voltage.

Edited by Robbo
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7 minutes ago, chubby said:

Its all very well all this " oh just bin it , its a lovely sunny day , have another beer , throw another shrimp on the barbie , boat off into the sunset blah blah blah " but i would ask how many of those making such comments live on thier boat off grid without shoreline connection ? 

The reason ask is because unless you do so or have done then its quite easy to overlook the importance of battery monitors .

No doubt from time to time there will be the odd dodgy one & there can be debates as to which is best & which is easiest to interpret etc but to me such devices are an absolute boon . If i got a new boat tomorrow the first thing buy for it is solar equipment and a smartgauge . 

Im off grid and liveaboard . My batteries are important cos i dont have a nice shoreline to plug in . I need to be mindful of the state of my batteries so i can use them without damaging them . Batteries are a disposable item but that dont mean i ll be adhering to the principle of " sod it ... just abuse em and bin em " . What a very 21st century modern British mentallity . Shameful in my opinion . 

When my batteries give up then ill spend on new ones but of course but i will try to look after them as i rely on them to service my boat ... my home & because if i spend my hard earnt on something i like to try to look after it . If you liveaboard i suspect changing the batteries very regularly will become an expensive chore . Removing , transferring to car , buying ,  transferring to boat , refitting - why go thru that process more often than necessary ? 

All this " care " or " diligence " over ones batteries becomes more relevant in winter when solar input is less reliable and so trustworthy gauges are even more worthwhile . 

So for those on a shoreline who have a " boating season " - you carry on up the cut  into the sunset - with your beer in one hand and your barbecue tongs in the other because if you don t live - on then you re ignorant of why someone would would want to try to understand the relative health of thier batteries . 

 

We are more then capable of understanding the health of our batteries. We have a voltmeter and ammeter that tell us all we need to know. They were checked for accuracy a couple of years back when we had electrical problems and they were found to be reasonably accurate so are more then sufficient for our needs.

Batteries, however well looked after will need replacing at some point.

Life is too short for molly coddling batteries and worrying about SOC and SG. There are far more important things in life to be spending time on.

As for replacing batteries being shameful. Our old set have been donated to a friend who has less power demands then us and had knackered batteries. He is finding them far better then the ones he had onboard. 

 

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1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

We are more then capable of understanding the health of our batteries. We have a voltmeter and ammeter that tell us all we need to know. They were checked for accuracy a couple of years back when we had electrical problems and they were found to be reasonably accurate so are more then sufficient for our needs.

Batteries, however well looked after will need replacing at some point.

Life is too short for molly coddling batteries and worrying about SOC and SG. There are far more important things in life to be spending time on.

As for replacing batteries being shameful. Our old set have been donated to a friend who has less power demands then us and had knackered batteries. He is finding them far better then the ones he had onboard. 

 

If your charging via a genny/engine then it is very useful to know what is happening.  No point leaving a engine running for the sake of it.

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1 minute ago, Robbo said:

There is something to be said for that.   

 

I have a amp meter type monitor (Victron), as long as you don't regard the % gauge as accurate it does tell you when it's reached 100% accurately as it uses the amps and voltage.

No fancy percentage monitors for us. Just two analogue gauges. No need for % gauges or readings provided you know how to read the information being presented.

 

Just now, Robbo said:

If your charging via a genny/engine then it is very useful to know what is happening.  No point leaving a engine running for the sake of it.

So read the gauges. The engine doesn't need to be running to read them!

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3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

No fancy percentage monitors for us. Just two analogue gauges. No need for % gauges or readings provided you know how to read the information being presented.

 

So read the gauges. The engine doesn't need to be running to read them!

Well it needs to be running to charge the batteries tho, and the Victron can turn the genny off when it reaches 100%.   I don't want to be watching guages all the time.  I just let the guage do the work for us.

Edited by Robbo
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When i got up this morning i checked my smartgauge . It read 80 % SOC . Overnight the fridge had used power from my batteries . 

The sun came and 400W of solar panel began doing its work . Later i checked my gauge . 88% SOC . Happy days - my batteries are being charged . 

So - i did some hoovering ( yes ...  a hoover - aren t i posh ?) . Then i powered up my eberspatcher for hot water /Then i did some laundry in wonderfully simple & power frugal twin tub . 

Now afterall this power usage on a bright sunny day my smartgauge reads 96 . By dusk itll be 100 . Which may or may not actually be 100 . Because i dont have a maths or science degree i m not able nor interested in naffing around with a calculator and some clever theorising to work out my batteries SOC . Instead i shall take my smartgauge at its word and thatll do for me . I look after my batteries but i dont obsess about them . It is a healthy , responsible & worthwhile attitude in my opinion . 

This is perhaps why those who live - on without a 240 V supply might think that £125 is worth spending . Mind you that would buy a fair few cans of eurofizz to drink whilst boating into the sunset . Maybe i ll have a rethink . 

 

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2 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Well it needs to be running to charge the batteries tho, and the Victron can turn the genny off when it reaches 100%.   I don't want to be watching guages all the time.  I just let the guage do the work for us.

Neither do we which is why we don't. They are there is we have/want to read them but we don't bother. They might get a quick glance first thing but that is about it.

2 minutes ago, chubby said:

When i got up this morning i checked my smartgauge . It read 80 % SOC . Overnight the fridge had used power from my batteries . 

The sun came and 400W of solar panel began doing its work . Later i checked my gauge . 88% SOC . Happy days - my batteries are being charged . 

So - i did some hoovering ( yes ...  a hoover - aren t i posh ?) . Then i powered up my eberspatcher for hot water /Then i did some laundry in wonderfully simple & power frugal twin tub . 

Now afterall this power usage on a bright sunny day my smartgauge reads 96 . By dusk itll be 100 . Which may or may not actually be 100 . Because i dont have a maths or science degree i m not able nor interested in naffing around with a calculator and some clever theorising to work out my batteries SOC . Instead i shall take my smartgauge at its word and thatll do for me . I look after my batteries but i dont obsess about them . It is a healthy , responsible & worthwhile attitude in my opinion . 

This is perhaps why those who live - on without a 240 V supply might think that £125 is worth spending . Mind you that would buy a fair few cans of eurofizz to drink whilst boating into the sunset . Maybe i ll have a rethink . 

 

You can keep your eurofizz. 

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10 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Neither do we which is why we don't. They are there is we have/want to read them but we don't bother. They might get a quick glance first thing but that is about it

You have shore power and don't live full time aboard so I'm guessing your power requirements are low.  When your full time living aboard and charge via genny then you may pay more attention to them.

Edited by Robbo
Correcting auto correction spelling!
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Naughty Cal 

Ive seen the evidence ... Some of your boat maintenence photos have cans of Fosters in the background . Before any one says " ah but thats australian "  its about as australian as sausage & sauerkraut , sushi & pickled herring . Its eurofizz .

I mentioned this before - but i think u mentioned you 'd stopped drinking it ...

 

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4 minutes ago, chubby said:

Naughty Cal 

Ive seen the evidence ... Some of your boat maintenence photos have cans of Fosters in the background . Before any one says " ah but thats australian "  its about as australian as sausage & sauerkraut , sushi & pickled herring . Its eurofizz .

I mentioned this before - but i think u mentioned you 'd stopped drinking it ...

 

Yes we stopped drinking it well before the boat was pulled out of the water last winter. So your "evidence" is a little on the old side Chubbs.

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7 minutes ago, Robbo said:

You have shore power and don't live full time aboard so I'm guessing your power requirements are low.  When your full time living aboard and charge via genny then you may pay more attention to them.

When we are out for two or three weeks without shore power it still doesn't occur to us that we need to be watching the meters like a hawk.

When we liveaboard we still won't be monitoring them like some on here. It just isn't worth it. From what is written on here it doesn't actually give any better battery life expectancy anyway, so is a pointless waste of time.

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5 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

When we are out for two or three weeks without shore power it still doesn't occur to us that we need to be watching the meters like a hawk.

When we liveaboard we still won't be monitoring them like some on here. It just isn't worth it. From what is written on here it doesn't actually give any better battery life expectancy anyway, so is a pointless waste of time.

2-3 weeks cruising off shore power is using the boat leisurely.  Your batteries hardly get used!

Spend a few winters off shore power living full time aboard and  then you'll see why we monitor and get better batteries.

Battery lifetime isn't the pain, it's the time charging that is.

 

Edited by Robbo
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24 minutes ago, Robbo said:

You have shore power and don't live full time aboard so I'm guessing your power requirements are low.  When your full time living aboard and charge via genny then you may be more attention to them.

I think this correct and fair . Your boat is a leisure boat and very well used one which you clearly love . But it spends its winters on the hard and isnt lived on . When its used it looks like its used hard - the batts will be well looked after therefore . 

MtBs point about " just get more solar " is correct - it isnt a sensible approach to battery health . Yes its phenominally ( ive no english degree either so that may be spewlt wrong ) good in summer and will provide all summer long as it has for me today . But a chain is as strong as its weakest link - its how ones monitoring / charging routine operates during the winter that matters . Its all very well having fully charged batts in summer but if ur unable to assess thier " health " through the winter in order to look after them theyll  be down on capacity by the following summer . Therefore the ability to check via whichever gauge used is important because i dont want to change batts every year even if i could get batteries for a tenner a shot . Changing them is a chore . 

In winter i use less power . In summer i use as much as i want . I m mindful of my batteries " wellbeing "but not obsessively so . I never run my engine unless its to move the boat - not in the last 3 years since being off grid . I dont own a generator . All my charging when stationary comes from 400w of solar . I am able to do this because i use a monitor to tell me how much power i have available and then use it in a way that will not take my SOC below 50 . 

3 years with no engine running ( except when moving ) . Just solar - there is no way i would be able to do this without that smartgauge - to me its worth its weight in gold 

 

ETA: Same batteries - 4 years old . 4x110ah 

Edited by chubby
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49 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:


A bit like Smartgauges then...

Well, ones that come from the factory significantly out of tolerance, anyway. It does seem piss poor that both yours are probably out of tolerance, one dramatically so, one marginally so. A shame as it is a good product when set up correctly by the factory. Mine was within spec but a bit out, having tweaked it 5 years ago it remains spot on cal-wise.

I'll mention again that my correctly calibrated one is very close to the correctly set up AH counter during discharge.

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1 hour ago, Robbo said:

2-3 weeks cruising off shore power is using the boat leisurely.  Your batteries hardly get used!

Spend a few winters off shore power living full time aboard and  then you'll see why we monitor and get better batteries.

Battery lifetime isn't the pain, it's the time charging that is.

 

Agreed ,some one Posted that their Batteries had lasted 10 years but,they had only been off Grid for 1 Year.

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1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

When we are out for two or three weeks without shore power it still doesn't occur to us that we need to be watching the meters like a hawk.

When we liveaboard we still won't be monitoring them like some on here. It just isn't worth it. From what is written on here it doesn't actually give any better battery life expectancy anyway, so is a pointless waste of time.

 

Two or three weeks off grid once in a while and the rest of the time on shore power, yet you knacker them in four years? 

Your batteries should be lasting ten years. You NEED a Smartgauge lol!

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2 hours ago, Robbo said:

But how do you know when the batteries are at 50% (or whatever % you like to charge from), amp counters are totally inaccurate at this.

I have 1500 ah of full traction batteries, 1 kw of solar and a whispergen. I dont care, my batteries never get that low, even with a washing machine, and dishwasher plus all the other electric goods, it works and has worked for 12 years. Thats the beauty of designing a system that works properly especially if like me you are off grid

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I've gone solar. The £29 job from Aldi. A day with it boosting my battery gives me free use of one 2w LED light for the evening. I've not used any other 12v appliance since I bought it, including the water pump, been getting kettles of water from the outside tap and not had a wash since Tuesday, missed the toilet because I wouldn't turn the light on too, I just wanted to see how much it charges my battery without anyheavy loads.  I don't trust any article or gadget which includes the word SMART in its name.

Edited by bizzard
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