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Big tour on a 60ft narrowboat some route advice please


Lizzy

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16 hours ago, Lizzy said:

I've read quite a few threads already about the different canals, but still have some questions and I know folks on here are always so super helfpul. So here goes:

I am planning a minimum 4 month roundtrip (single-hand for much of the time) up from London and back this summer. First bit out and return are planned: GU north and Oxford canal + Thames south. That's where the options start.

I'd like to go into Birmingham. What is the best route into Birmingham, say Gas Street, from the GU? For me that'd be the one with the least locks probably. Similarly what is the best option out of Birmingham to the north? I fancy going to the Macclesfield and Peak Forest as I have read that they are beautiful. So I guess Staffs&Worcs and then Trent&Mersey to get there. How to best get to that out of Birmingham?

Now for the North: it seems that there may be issues with a 60ft boat on the Leeds&Liverpool. How far would I get into it travelling west to east? And is it OK for 60ft all the way west to Liverpool? What about the Rochdale and Huddersfield? If possible, I'd like to do a loop up there, but it looks like that might not work.

All in all, does this sound like a good trip to you? Am I missing out on the most spectacular bits? (I am saving Llangollen for another day). I am looking for picturesque, canal history and manageability single-handed (never done a swing bridge!?).

Many thanks for help.

4 months ??

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13 hours ago, Lizzy said:

Going downriver on the Thames. Thought that makes more sense. And the spectacular finish is then going to be the tide at Brentford. Wheee :D

Absolutely - there's no point flogging UP the Thames as there's always a 1mph current (EA have to maintain that in order to flus away all the carp that Thames Water pour into the River).

You'll find the Brentford transit is a disappointment - not because of the magnificent scenery, but that there's nowhere to stop - and yes you'll go like a cat out of hell, boating wise.  

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  • 1 month later...

Picking this up again. I am now en route and approaching Birmingham. I do want to go to  Liverpool. Recently somebody mentioned to me that Ellesmere Port is a must for anybody interested in cana history. A look at the map shows that it's the other side of the Mersey unfortunately. From my research here it sounds like crossing the Mersey is not normally done in a narrowboat. Is it an option to go "round" to the other side via the Manchester Ship Canal? Is it recommended? Otherwise Ellesmere Port looks like a no, as it's a huge detour.

Edited by Lizzy
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20 minutes ago, Lizzy said:

Picking this up again. I am now en route and approaching Birmingham. I do want to go to  Liverpool. Recently somebody mentioned to me that Ellesmere Port is a must for anybody interested in cana history. A look at the map shows that it's the other side of the Mersey unfortunately. From my research here it sounds like crossing the Mersey is not normally done in a narrowboat. Is it an option to go "round" to the other side via the Manchester Ship Canal? Is it recommended? Otherwise Ellesmere Port looks like a no, as it's a huge detour.

The Manchester Ship Canal is operated by Peel Holdings who require certain things such as "Certificate of Seaworthiness" amongst other admin procedures, but, yes, transit this way is possible.

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We went to Liverpool two years ago and it was a revelation, absolutely loved it. We came in from Leeds in a 60' boat through the Liverpool Link, the whole journey was amazing and I have to say the Liverpool link was fantastic. We left via the Mersey, very possible in a prepared narrowboat in the right conditions but an exercise in logistics - see this page: https://indigodream.wordpress.com/2015/12/12/boat-blog-crossing-the-mersey-a-to-do-list/

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Presuming you're approaching Birmingham via the GU, I'd back up earlier comments that coming via the North Stratford and the W&B is the better route.  Less locks, the nicest flight on the system (Lapworth), more pubs, more stopping places, prettier.  The two manual lift bridges aren't really that bad and won't hold you up for more than ten minutes.

Heading out of Birmingham, I'd choose the Old Mainline and stop at the Black Country Museum (take the trip into the tunnel on the electric tug - it's good), then to Wolverhampton and down the 21.  From there I'd go up the Shroppie which is a lovely canal and you really must do the Llangollen.  Then the Middlewich onto the T&M and Bridgewater and the L&L to Liverpool.  I've never crossed the Pennines on the L&L but on a 60' boat it's your only sensible choice.  

Then you could try something different - heading back south via the Trent from Keadby.  You'll need an anchor, lifejacket etc, and check with CRT about single-handing the river (or find a friend to join you - that's what i did when single handing).  The Trent is an endlessly fascinating river and the tidal stretch is a real adventure.  You'll have far fewer locks and those which are are automated and usually manned.  Side trips from the Trent are the Chesterfield and the Fossdyke/Witham.  Then up the Soar and back onto the Grand Union.

You'll miss the Peak Forest and the Macclesfield but you can't have everything in one trip.

 

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14 hours ago, rgreg said:

The Manchester Ship Canal is operated by Peel Holdings who require certain things such as "Certificate of Seaworthiness" amongst other admin procedures, but, yes, transit this way is possible.

Possible yes, but practical?

I doubt Lizzy will end up on the Manchester Ship Canal. Dave_P has some good route advice and if Lizzy really wants to visit the Ellesmere Port museum I would suggest catching a train from Liverpool.

On balance missing out on Ellesmere Port isn't a hardship compared to all the places she will be going.

JP

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4 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Possible yes, but practical?

I doubt Lizzy will end up on the Manchester Ship Canal. Dave_P has some good route advice and if Lizzy really wants to visit the Ellesmere Port museum I would suggest catching a train from Liverpool.

On balance missing out on Ellesmere Port isn't a hardship compared to all the places she will be going.

JP

I completely agree with you, and the route suggested by Dave P (including the L&L and Trent) having personally done exactly that single-handed. Lizzy asked if MSC route was possible which it is but absolutely not the best option for her. 

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21 hours ago, Lizzy said:

Picking this up again. I am now en route and approaching Birmingham. I do want to go to  Liverpool. Recently somebody mentioned to me that Ellesmere Port is a must for anybody interested in cana history. A look at the map shows that it's the other side of the Mersey unfortunately. From my research here it sounds like crossing the Mersey is not normally done in a narrowboat. Is it an option to go "round" to the other side via the Manchester Ship Canal? Is it recommended? Otherwise Ellesmere Port looks like a no, as it's a huge detour.

Ellesmere Port and the museum are accessed by the a Shropshire Union. You go through Chester (a beautiful city) and past Chester Zoo. All of these are worth a visit. 

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OK sounds like Ellesmere Port may be a visit without the boat - if at all. Manchester Ship Canal and Mersey are a NO. The Trent sounds intriguing, but I am a little scared of tidal places still! I think another time.

I've had several people mention how great it is to go into Liverpool. That is something I definitely don't want to miss.

Very happy with the route advice so far. Several people who I met en route have confirmed that going via Lapworth to Birmingham is a good choice. I am so looking forward to getting onto the narrow canals.

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1 minute ago, Lizzy said:

OK sounds like Ellesmere Port may be a visit without the boat - if at all

Why? As MHS says well worth a visit, asis Chester . So is the Trent if you have a suitable boat and equipment. 

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i have a 60 foot boat on the leeds and liverpool and the locks are ok (watch the front of the boat with leaky gates going up), but the swing bridges are bad for a single hander as all the controls are on the wrong side. The manual ones you can moor on the landing, cross bridge, unlock it and set it swinging then run back across the bridge and try to give it the right amount of extra shove so it comes to rest fully open. If it doesnt push it open with your pole. Then go through moor again, and the bridges have a recovery chain so you can pull them closed recross the bridge and lock up. Unfortunately the end of the bridge is at the same height as your windows so if the wind starts to blow it  closed  as you go through it could get a bit messy. The automated ones also have the controls offside and are the pits. My technique is moor, cross bridge, insert key and open bridge. Fly back across the canal on my magic carpet and then go through the bridge. ( actually i wait for a dog walker to come along and ask them to help ) there is footage on you tube of someone single handing an automated bridge on the L&L LoL you could try it if you like. I tried mooring off side to do a couple but would rather not smash my boat up thankyou very much.

Despite this the Leeds and Liverpool is absolutely beautiful. Ill say it again. The Leeds and Liverpool is absolutely beautiful. 

So is most of the Rochdale for that matter hard work though. Single hand that and you'll have muscles on yer muscles that you didnt know existed. 60 feet will go down the Caulder and Hebble but its very tight. How sure are you that 60 feet is 60 feet and not 60 foot 4 '' coz its that tight. Also I have a trad with an eliptical stern. If you have a cruiser with a square stern then the 60 foot boat in a 57 foot lock trick may not work.  If you come to the Caulder and Hebble from the Rochdale canal then the shortest locks are the first 2 you come to, Salterhebble top and middle. If you get through there then you can get through the rest. Otherwise its back over the Pennines. Or a crane and low loader.

The Leeds and Liverpool is absolutely beautiful 

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7 hours ago, 36national said:

i have a 60 foot boat on the leeds and liverpool and the locks are ok (watch the front of the boat with leaky gates going up), but the swing bridges are bad for a single hander as all the controls are on the wrong side. The manual ones you can moor on the landing, cross bridge, unlock it and set it swinging then run back across the bridge and try to give it the right amount of extra shove so it comes to rest fully open. If it doesnt push it open with your pole. Then go through moor again, and the bridges have a recovery chain so you can pull them closed recross the bridge and lock up. Unfortunately the end of the bridge is at the same height as your windows so if the wind starts to blow it  closed  as you go through it could get a bit messy. The automated ones also have the controls offside and are the pits. My technique is moor, cross bridge, insert key and open bridge. Fly back across the canal on my magic carpet and then go through the bridge. ( actually i wait for a dog walker to come along and ask them to help ) there is footage on you tube of someone single handing an automated bridge on the L&L LoL you could try it if you like. I tried mooring off side to do a couple but would rather not smash my boat up thankyou very much.

Despite this the Leeds and Liverpool is absolutely beautiful. Ill say it again. The Leeds and Liverpool is absolutely beautiful. 

So is most of the Rochdale for that matter hard work though. Single hand that and you'll have muscles on yer muscles that you didnt know existed. 60 feet will go down the Caulder and Hebble but its very tight. How sure are you that 60 feet is 60 feet and not 60 foot 4 '' coz its that tight. Also I have a trad with an eliptical stern. If you have a cruiser with a square stern then the 60 foot boat in a 57 foot lock trick may not work.  If you come to the Caulder and Hebble from the Rochdale canal then the shortest locks are the first 2 you come to, Salterhebble top and middle. If you get through there then you can get through the rest. Otherwise its back over the Pennines. Or a crane and low loader.

The Leeds and Liverpool is absolutely beautiful 

Yes, I agree with your comments about the Leeds and Liverpool; one of my favourite canals.

My technique for single-handing swing bridges is as follows:

1) If not possible to moor on the operational side pull up at the landing stage leaving the boat untied

2) Cross the bridge taking the bow rope with you

3) Open bridge

4) Pull bow across to you

5) Walk down gunwale and power boat slowly through, stopping with the stern at bridge abutment of operational side

6) Get off boat taking the stern rope with you and close the bridge.

7) Get back on and off you go.

 

  • Greenie 1
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10 hours ago, Lizzy said:

 The Trent sounds intriguing, but I am a little scared of tidal places still! 

Its perfectly normal and sensible to be cautious of tidal rivers. However with correct passage planning it can be safe. You should not be single handed on any tidal journey, although so do so on the Trent.

 

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I've read that the 2 locks on the c&h at salterhebble are best done backwards going down. All the rest with the boat on a diagonal. The Rochdale is stunning, east of Littleborough. 1 day of grot coming out of Manchester to the Rose of Lancaster, nice moorings at the aqueduct just past. Next mooring Slattocks, or go straight thru Rochdale to Littleborough.

 

Edited by Jim Riley
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  • 4 weeks later...

Sooo I am now on the Macclesfield and everything I read on here has worked out brilliantly. I had forgotten that the two draw bridges on the Stratford were mentioned here (more than once). Yes they were real pigs and I am still slightly at a loss how to do them on my own. Help arrived in the middle at both of them, but not before the boat was stopped at the closed bridge by my headlight. Urgh.

I have encountered a new problem, which I hadn't foreseen. I have wooden racks on the roof topped by plant containers and a bike. I learned the hard way that not all bridges support this arrangement. For the Harecastle tunnel I took all the plants and the bike down and prayed and it worked. Now I am a little unclear about the Ashton / Peak Forest Canal to reach Manchester. Nicholson quotes the headroom as 6ft, which would mean plants down again and more praying. I can hardly believe this as this is lower than any canal so far apart from Harecastle. Does anybody have more information about height there?

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1 hour ago, Lizzy said:

Sooo I am now on the Macclesfield and everything I read on here has worked out brilliantly. I had forgotten that the two draw bridges on the Stratford were mentioned here (more than once). Yes they were real pigs and I am still slightly at a loss how to do them on my own. Help arrived in the middle at both of them, but not before the boat was stopped at the closed bridge by my headlight. Urgh.

I have encountered a new problem, which I hadn't foreseen. I have wooden racks on the roof topped by plant containers and a bike. I learned the hard way that not all bridges support this arrangement. For the Harecastle tunnel I took all the plants and the bike down and prayed and it worked. Now I am a little unclear about the Ashton / Peak Forest Canal to reach Manchester. Nicholson quotes the headroom as 6ft, which would mean plants down again and more praying. I can hardly believe this as this is lower than any canal so far apart from Harecastle. Does anybody have more information about height there?

Sounds like we are just ahead of you. we left the Macc this morning and have come up to Bugsworth basin for the night, down the Marple flight tomorrow planning to stop near Marple aqueduct if possible.

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yes you almost certainly will, o course it depends upon the level in the pounds but i did that route about 3 months ago. I USED to have a little forward pointing light mounted on a stalk on the roof of my boat, it made it through Harecastle OK but one of the bridges on the Ashton bent it back to an angle of about 60 degrees. I remember thinking "if it dont go then it dont go but I aint gonna stop and mess about for that" Poor light. Anyway Im pretty sure that it was the motorway bridge No22 that did that coz it was just round a corner which did not allow for much decision making time (excuses) and the next bridge, Lumb Lane Bridge is mentioned by Nicholsons as the lowest. Just to be unhelpful, im unsure of my exact air draft but its not significantly above average.     You thought about going back to the Trent and Mersey and doing the Bridgewater ?

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Oh :( when I take the plants down (which seems inevitable according to this), the only issue remaining is the sides. The racks extend to the the hand rails on the side, so I mainly could have issues with arched bridges. I presume that motorway bridge was straight across? Do you know Lumb Lane bridge 21? Is it flat? I'd like to avoid going back and round if I can. If it's only a couple of bridges I can take the racks off and carry them through. 

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1 hour ago, Lizzy said:

IMG_4581.jpg

Ignore this random pic. I can't get rid of it!

I propose to do nothing of the sort. Be proud of this picture, I'm no expert on these matters but feel it has artistic merit. Composition is good, it has the person (CRT if I'm not much mistaken) striking a heroic pose looking towards the main feature at the centre of the picture, the Bratch staircase locks on the Staffs & Worcs. Nothing's cut off, you have the boots and the flagpole in shot, and there's a nice contrast between the sunny day and the darkness of the lock chamber.

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18 hours ago, Lizzy said:

Sooo I am now on the Macclesfield and everything I read on here has worked out brilliantly. I had forgotten that the two draw bridges on the Stratford were mentioned here (more than once). Yes they were real pigs and I am still slightly at a loss how to do them on my own. Help arrived in the middle at both of them, but not before the boat was stopped at the closed bridge by my headlight. Urgh.

I have encountered a new problem, which I hadn't foreseen. I have wooden racks on the roof topped by plant containers and a bike. I learned the hard way that not all bridges support this arrangement. For the Harecastle tunnel I took all the plants and the bike down and prayed and it worked. Now I am a little unclear about the Ashton / Peak Forest Canal to reach Manchester. Nicholson quotes the headroom as 6ft, which would mean plants down again and more praying. I can hardly believe this as this is lower than any canal so far apart from Harecastle. Does anybody have more information about height there?

There are a fair few low bits between Marple and Manchester. I have a canopy over my cockpit and took that and my chimney down for that whole stretch and found myself frequently glad I did. I tend to use my tunnel light as a guide-it's the tallest bit at the front of my boat and I think I've roughly measured it before at about 5'11-and certainly there were a few places it scraped under with not much to spare.

I seem to remember a couple of bridges on the Marple flight (where the locks come out under a road) are fairly low (you might be alright with your plants, bike might want to come down), and there are some fairly low bridges on the lower peak forest as you approach Ashton (it's mostly the railway bridges as you get close to Ashton-they are flat and again, you are probably okay with the racks and plants), but Lumb Lane bridge on the Ashton canal is probably the lowest. It is flat though. The boaters guide gives 6ft but then says it's been measured at 6'4-so not sure how accurate that is-all I know is I properly had to duck-but all of the others have at least a couple of inches on that.

You may also want to take care with the tunnels on the Peak Forest. Hyde Bank is low but wide so you may get away with it, but Woodley tunnel is likely to cause you issues with your roof racks-it has a towpath on one side and the arch on the other comes down very low. I kept very close into the towpath side and yet there wasn't much in it in some places between the tunnel roof and corners of my boat. It's only short, but I found it rather tricky and personally think it's lower than Harecastle.

 

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I tend to agree with Peter's comments about the quality of your photo. A cracking picky of an all action lockie in  industrial yet strangely tranquil and picturesque surroundings.  I do think its rather a shame that you chose to airbrush the subject, ie the magnificent narrowboat entering the lock, out.

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