Lock size on Grand Union

[rusty69]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

You will find that all much of written matter for the canal system is rather one size fits all information which is not real life boating. Yes the op is asking about one canal but others have added information that helps when other peoiple read such threads. As a for instance Thorne lock is oft quoted as 63 feet etc which is way off the mark for narrowboaters.

Leeds and Liverpool etc etc are often better described accurately by those who have done them rather than rough lock dimensions in printed matter.

I agree. The trouble is without knowing where Thorne lock is for e. g(I had to look it up)  it can often confuse the original question. 

[Dave_P]

There's this mistake riddled page:  https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/1059.pdf

Two of my favourite errors:

1.  The Staffs and Worcs has a max beam of 6'7"

2. Part of the K&A has a max length of 9'4"

 

 

Just now, rusty69 said:

I agree. The trouble is without knowing where Thorne lock is for e. g(I had to look it up)  it can often confuse the original question. 

That would be my fault then, but it was brought up in the context of the whole network, not just the GU

[mrsmelly]

Just now, rusty69 said:

I agree. The trouble is without knowing where Thorne lock is for e. g(I had to look it up)  it can often confuse the original question. 

Yes sorry I should have mentioned where it was. The thing with Thorne lock its a VERY big deal on the system as its often quoted wrongly and many seventy foot owners  indeed sixty four foot have been put off doing the northern canals due to misinformation as the only other route if not through this lock is around Trent falls which is strictly NOT for the faint hearted. The  northern canals are fab.

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

There's this mistake riddled page:  https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/1059.pdf

Two of my favourite errors:

1.  The Staffs and Worcs has a max beam of 6'7"

2. Part of the K&A has a max length of 9'4"

 

 

That would be my fault then, but it was brought up in the context of the whole network, not just the GU

Or dear, I think that's PDF I linked to(I would have thought they could get it right by now) 

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes sorry I should have mentioned where it was. The thing with Thorne lock its a VERY big deal on the system as its often quoted wrongly and many seventy foot owners  indeed sixty four foot have been put off doing the northern canals due to misinformation as the only other route if not through this lock is around Trent falls which is strictly NOT for the faint hearted. The  northern canals are fab.

It is certainly interesting, and I'm rather surprised that the official publications haven't managed to get the publisicised dimensions correct. 

[matty40s]

19 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I agree. The trouble is without knowing where Thorne lock is for e. g(I had to look it up)  it can often confuse the original question. 

it's in Thorne....

[rusty69]

Just now, matty40s said:

it's in Thorne....

V. Good. 

[alan_fincher]

The Grand Union from Brentford to Braunston is supposed to be OK for 75 foot boats, so 70 foot is no issue at all.

The Birmingham line up to Camp Hill is apparently even more generous, and could take 78 foot boats.

As it happens we will be doing the latter with 71' 8" length in a few days time.

It's once we go onto the BCN that I understand some locks are very much "snugger", and you can only pass some with a boat as long as ours by lifting fenders at both ends.

[matty40s]

this is correct Alan, my rear fenders have a lifting chain attached which was used quite a bit on the BCN challenge.

[David Mack]

Done most of the BCN locks in Fulbourne over the years, aand don't recall many problems with length.  I think the shortest BCN lock is that one on the Curdworth flight which was relocated when the M42 was built. And that is down to BW specifying the new lock too short.

[Dave_P]

12 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

The Grand Union from Brentford to Braunston is supposed to be OK for 75 foot boats, so 70 foot is no issue at all.

The Birmingham line up to Camp Hill is apparently even more generous, and could take 78 foot boats.

As it happens we will be doing the latter with 71' 8" length in a few days time.

It's once we go onto the BCN that I understand some locks are very much "snugger", and you can only pass some with a boat as long as ours by lifting fenders at both ends.

Heading from the city centre to Salford Junction on a 71'+ boat I understand that there's only one available route, out of Aston and Garrison flights, I can't remember which way round it is though.

[alan_fincher]

16 hours ago, matty40s said:

this is correct Alan, my rear fenders have a lifting chain attached which was used quite a bit on the BCN challenge.

How long is Old Friends?

[alan_fincher]

4 hours ago, Dave_P said:

Heading from the city centre to Salford Junction on a 71'+ boat I understand that there's only one available route, out of Aston and Garrison flights, I can't remember which way round it is though.

If anybody can point me at a source that indicates where 71' 8" might not get through on the BCN it would be helpful.  We will be going through to the W&E (probably from the GU, but possibly the B&F) in a few days time, and if anywhere is likely to be an issue, I'd rather not find out by attempting it!

[Lady M]

Your boat may well be 71' 6" long rather than the 71' 8" shown on the gauging sheet.  It may be worth getting the tape measure out next time in the dock. 

This proved to be the case with a Northwich that has a gauging sheet showing 71' 9" that had successfully (fenders up) gone through BCN locks known to be too short for a boat of 71' 9".  The boat was subsequently measured as 71' 6".

[IanM]

36 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

If anybody can point me at a source that indicates where 71' 8" might not get through on the BCN it would be helpful.  We will be going through to the W&E (probably from the GU, but possibly the B&F) in a few days time, and if anywhere is likely to be an issue, I'd rather not find out by attempting it!

Certainly we've had to come down from Titford Pools backwards with Yeoford before.  I remember Graham saying Collingwood would go up Aston locks but not down but I think that was to do with bow shape.

[Dave_P]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

If anybody can point me at a source that indicates where 71' 8" might not get through on the BCN it would be helpful.  We will be going through to the W&E (probably from the GU, but possibly the B&F) in a few days time, and if anywhere is likely to be an issue, I'd rather not find out by attempting it!

This was a word-of-mouth thing from a commercial operator.  From the GU, you might be better entering the BCN via the North Stratford anyway, although it's a bit shallow.

[Dave_P]

45 minutes ago, IanM said:

Certainly we've had to come down from Titford Pools backwards with Yeoford before.  I remember Graham saying Collingwood would go up Aston locks but not down but I think that was to do with bow shape.

My word-of-mouth info was from Graham.  It may be just a Collingwood thing...

[Tim Lewis]

1 hour ago, Dave_P said:

This was a word-of-mouth thing from a commercial operator.  From the GU, you might be better entering the BCN via the North Stratford anyway, although it's a bit shallow.

We (Fulbourne 71'6") have used the GU route into Birmingham many times without a problem (Apart from the Autumn leaves in the cutting around Sollihul)

Tim

Edited April 5, 2017 by Tim Lewis

[Lady M]

Bradshaw's guide to the canals lists dimensions for all waterways.  Published by Imray, these days it is edited by Jane Cumberlidge.

[rusty69]

Just now, Lady C said:

Bradshaw's guide to the canals lists dimensions for all waterways.  Published by Imray, these days it is edited by Jane Cumberlidge.

Ah, I tried quoting publications yesterday and was advised that published figures are often wrong, and first hand experience is much preffered.

[Tim Lewis]

13 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Bradshaw's guide to the canals lists dimensions for all waterways.  Published by Imray, these days it is edited by Jane Cumberlidge.

 

Jane Cumberlidge edits 'Inland Waterways of Great Britain' previously edited by L.A. Edwards.  When I started boating it was just referred to as 'Edwards', being the bible of canal information.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Tim Lewis

[Dave_P]

2 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

 

Jane Cumberlidge edits 'Inland Waterways of Great Britain' previously edited by L.A. Edwards.  When I started boating it was just referred to as 'Edwards', being the bible of canal information.

Tim

How long does it say Thorne Lock is?

[mrsmelly]

9 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Bradshaw's guide to the canals lists dimensions for all waterways.  Published by Imray, these days it is edited by Jane Cumberlidge.

Have you got a copy? If you have just see what it says for narrowcraft at Thorne? Ive never read it but I would be suprised if its correct. Has Jane Cumberlidge been through every lock on the systems she edits?

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

How long is Old Friends?

Officially 70 feet ish,  about 6 inches flying about somewhere too.the tightest ones I found were Ashtead? flight between Garrison and Farmers Bridge....not officially BCN.

[Naughty Cal]

11 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Have you got a copy? If you have just see what it says for narrowcraft at Thorne? Ive never read it but I would be suprised if its correct. Has Jane Cumberlidge been through every lock on the systems she edits?

"1.Through passage is limited by Thorne Lock. For the Bramwith to Thorne section, dimensions
are as for the main line to Rotherham. Passage from River Trent To Thorne is limited by Keadby
Lock 77ft x 22ft 6ins (23.67m x 6.86m) although longer vraft can be admitted when the tide
makes a level. 2.Narrowboats up to about 18.79m (61ft 8ins) can pass through Thorne Lock
diagonally."

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Naughty Cal