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Intermittent pump


Joa

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Firstly apologies for my naivety and any silly questions I may ask. I have done a search but can't find a question to match mine so .....

our NB is just for weekends and holidays so doesn't get an awful lot of usage. Her water pump has now decided to kick in every 30 seconds for just 2 seconds at a time. The pressure gauge is below 1 but kicks up each time the pump kicks in of course.

At home, I would turn a valve in the airing cupboard to increase the pressure but I don't have a valve on the boat (that I can see). I have a red wheel 'tap' but turning that one way then the other achieved no change. 

We topped up the water tank yesterday but today we have noticed small pools of clean water on the floor, the water is coming up rather than leaking from above. It's very clean water though which makes me think the 2 may be connected.

i have no engine/mechanical/practical knowledge at all so please be gentle with the advice you give!

thanks in advance!

me and him *wishing we were plumbers*!

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Sounds like you have a leak in the plumbing  I would switch off the pump (at the fuse/breaker box) and use the isolation tap on the water tank to stop any further leakage.  Finding leak my be difficult as it could be anywhere in the plumbing.

Most boats have a way in to the bilge in the cabin usually at the stern.  You may find it be full of water.   A bilge pump to empty it will more than likely be needed as well as a wet and dry vac to get the last out.  However it will return days later but the amount of water will be less and less over the days.   You will also need to dry the bilges out.  If the leak was bad and soaking the floor forced air in to the bilge and if the floor really bad you may need industrial dehumidifiers.

Edited by Robbo
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A leak in the plumbing will give those symptoms but so will leaky valves in the pump or a leaking Pressure relief valve (usually very close to the calorifier).

If water appears to be coming up then this suggests the bilge may be full to overflowing so try to locate a trap in the cabin floor towards the back of the boat. This may be under the rear steps or in the bottom of a cupboard at the back. If you have one this will allow you gain access to the bilge and pump it out.

If you do not have such a trap then maybe its time to cut one.

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You have a leak.  This allows the pressure to drop and the pump kicks in.

Check for dripping taps and look and feel all the pipe joints in the bot to see which if any are leeaking.  Then look at the pump itself as they are common source of leaks. It may help to put dry kitchen roll/tissue on any suspect joints.

The accumulator also sounds like it needs re pressurizing but that can wait.

N

 

 

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Adding...  In addition to turning off the water pump, then turn on a tap to reduce the pressure in the system.  It should stop this bit of water that's left in the pipes from leaking as well.  

Edited by Robbo
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Thank you all so much. We are now hunting for a secret door!!

have turned off the pump and opened a tap (no water or hissy air but guess that's right?) - I did say I was naive, sorry!

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Joa said:

Thank you all so much. We are now hunting for a secret door!!

have turned off the pump and opened a tap (no water or hissy air but guess that's right?) - I did say I was naive, sorry!

 

 

That's right.  If you have a isolation tap for the tank turn that off as well as the leak maybe before the pump (although the symptoms don't shout that).

you may need to make your own secret door.  But try under the back steps first.

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Ok so we haven't located a secret door but we have narrowed the leak down to a 6ft section (we presume as that's where the floor is mushy).

the water pipe runs behind the fireplace and I just know it's going to be behind that!

if any of you experts fancy a beer or a tea and are near Harefield Marina (GU), please give us a shout!

image.jpg

6 minutes ago, Robbo said:

That's right.  If you have a isolation tap for the tank turn that off as well as the leak maybe before the pump (although the symptoms don't shout that).

you may need to make your own secret door.  But try under the back steps first.

Nothing under the back steps apart from Sammy spider and his entire family!

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10 minutes ago, Pie Eater said:

If the water is coming up through the floor you need to drill a hole in the floor at a low point and use a pump or aquavac to drain off any water which has collected beneath the floor.

That is the wooden flooring, not the steel base of the boat!

 

Ian.

  • Greenie 1
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Whereabouts on the boat is the pump ? At the very front ? , further back ? . Mine , for instance is under the dinette about 12 ft from bow . 

The reason i ask is whether the leak appears before or after the pump ? 

You need to check EVERY accessable joint in the plumbing to establish where the leak is . Get some Kitchen roll , place a sheet beneath every joint you can get to , under fittings , galley units etc . If one is drippy the evidence will be noticeable . 

You really do need an access hatch to the bilge . This will normally be at the rear of the boat possibly just forward of the rear bulkhead . Why here ? Because the boat slopes backwards any water under the floor will run backwards to the stern from where you have more chance to remove it . You may have to remove carpet or flooring to check .

If there is no hatch then you need to make one . It is important to be able to check because if water leaks into the bilge you must be able to remove it . 

One other thing - where the pipework enters & exits the pump it is often considered better to use flexible hose as the rigid pipework is more prone to leaking as the pump vibrates when it operates . 

It can be a tedious process finding leaks but working thru a process of elimination is the only way forward . 

Get some kitchen roll under the joints and check after an hour or maybe 30 minutes - it could be as simple as a loosened speedfit joint . 

It could be a long weekend .... make sure you have plenty of tea onboard !!

cheers

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16 hours ago, ianali said:

That is the wooden flooring, not the steel base of the boat!

 

Ian.

Thank you for that clarification! Luckily even I'm not that silly!! 

17 hours ago, Robbo said:

The leak is more likely to be at a joint, T junction, L joint, etc. what's on the other side of the fireplace?

A straight copper pipe, no joins until it goes into rads

17 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Is the mushy floor by the fire? 

Do you have a free running bilge. I. E one that will allow water from the front of the boat to travel to the back? 

I have no idea! Our bilge switch is at the stern and it seems to suck water just from around the engine bay

16 hours ago, ianali said:

That is the wooden flooring, not the steel base of the boat!

 

Ian.

 

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1 hour ago, chubby said:

Whereabouts on the boat is the pump ? At the very front ? , further back ? . Mine , for instance is under the dinette about 12 ft from bow . 

The reason i ask is whether the leak appears before or after the pump ? 

You need to check EVERY accessable joint in the plumbing to establish where the leak is . Get some Kitchen roll , place a sheet beneath every joint you can get to , under fittings , galley units etc . If one is drippy the evidence will be noticeable . 

You really do need an access hatch to the bilge . This will normally be at the rear of the boat possibly just forward of the rear bulkhead . Why here ? Because the boat slopes backwards any water under the floor will run backwards to the stern from where you have more chance to remove it . You may have to remove carpet or flooring to check .

If there is no hatch then you need to make one . It is important to be able to check because if water leaks into the bilge you must be able to remove it . 

One other thing - where the pipework enters & exits the pump it is often considered better to use flexible hose as the rigid pipework is more prone to leaking as the pump vibrates when it operates . 

It can be a tedious process finding leaks but working thru a process of elimination is the only way forward . 

Get some kitchen roll under the joints and check after an hour or maybe 30 minutes - it could be as simple as a loosened speedfit joint . 

It could be a long weekend .... make sure you have plenty of tea onboard !!

cheers

Thank you (tea and alcohol are in plentiful supply thankfully). 

Our pump is in the front cabin. It has flexible piping and joints inside the cupboard but then changes to copper for the rads along that side. 

I think, although can't guarantee that the leak is behind the tiled fireplace as that's the first sign of water .. either that or that's just the spot where it's coming out eventually. 

We didn't winterise the boat and I suspect our stupidity has allowed for a pipe to break. Please send stupid badges for us now!!

off back to marina now so will do the kitchen towel thing when we get there.

thank you all for your help and advice!

me and him *stupid idiots*

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34 minutes ago, Joa said:

A straight copper pipe, no joins until it goes into rads

That sounds like heating pipe, not necessarily connected to the water tank. 

Ah OK thats on the other side of the fireplace. 

Edited by rusty69
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1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

That sounds like heating pipe, not necessarily connected to the water tank. 

Yes, I was going to make the same point. The pipes you're looking for are the ones from the pump to the taps and calorifier. They're probably (but not necessarily) plastic. The fact that the pump operates intermittently suggests that the leak is somewhere between the pump and the taps.

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47 minutes ago, Joa said:

. It has flexible piping and joints inside the cupboard

Your photo shows Rigid pipe. Although as, Chubby says, flexible pipe is preferable, any leak from here should be obvious to see. 

Maybe an upgrade for the future once sorted. 

 

Edited by rusty69
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oh , i defo meant the flexible pipework comment as an extra job to be seen to later . 

The reason i asked about pump location : Your water tank is at the bow . If you go thru bow doors then which do u arrive at first - the stove or the pump ? 

If the stove is first , perhaps next to the bow doors as is often the case & there appears to be water staining etc then this could possibly be a seperate issue . I say this because the intermittent pump running demonstrates a pressure related issue AFTER the pump . 

On my boat i have the stove by bow doors ( annoyingly !!) the pump is then another 10 ft further towards the stern under the dinette . If i found water staining adjacent to my stove i would not consider the pump & plumbing after it in anyway . 

I reckon you ll be getting on all fours , getting under the fittings as i say with kitchen roll & a possibly a torch . Obviously pay attention to the joints nearest the leak evidence first & investigate further for a bilge inspection hatch . Mine is in the rear ( bedcabin ) and access it i have to remove flooring , you may need to do the same . 

Alcohol is for later ... tea for whilst working & i always find a plentiful supply of chocolate biscuits an essential item when working thru boat related annoyances . 

cheers

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Another reason for intermittent running of a water pump is water passing back through the pump and into the water tank again. No leak, but pump runs briefly and annoyingly every ten minutes or so. 

This would not explain the water coming up from the bilges you mention, but this could be a different problem. Do you know you need to tighten your stern gland every day when the boat is being used? If not, this could be the source of the bilge water.

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On 1 April 2017 at 10:25, Mike the Boilerman said:

Another reason for intermittent running of a water pump is water passing back through the pump and into the water tank again. No leak, but pump runs briefly and annoyingly every ten minutes or so. 

This would not explain the water coming up from the bilges you mention, but this could be a different problem. Do you know you need to tighten your stern gland every day when the boat is being used? If not, this could be the source of the bilge water.

Yep, stern gland done every day. Not by me, it's one of the 'man jobs' I leave to my hubby. :-)

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