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Running engine etiqeutte


sniffy

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Question from a newbie - moored up at Stockton heath at 6.30pm last Friday, had tied up and was lighting the fire leaving the engine running for approximately 15 minutes. I was disturbed by heavy knocking on the roof and a householder telling me to turn the engine of its disturbing people. I first thought it was a boater, but the nearest boat was three boat lengths away, stepped out to see him retiring down the banking into his house - was opposite the London bridge about 200 yards towards Lymm

Was I wrong to have the engine running ?

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Yes and no. There's no specific offence regarding running the engine while moored, but if its noisy and/or smelly and/or polluting, then it can be an offence under very vague/general laws which cover such things. The only place it specifically gets a mention is in the T&Cs of a licence, which are not backed by legislation - the 8pm - 8am rule is in there.

Normally in rural areas it is a non issue because 1) there isn't local housing to disturb, 2) boaters understand the (power/energy) needs of other boaters, hence the need to run the engine while moored. But, evening time is a time when sound travels well and the noise from even a quiet engine running will disturb the tranquility. So looking at it from a moral viewpoint, it can be very wrong to run the engine while moored, depending on how moral you feel.

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8 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

Although it was a couple of hours before the supposed 20.30 curfew you should allow for the fact that he may be over 250 years old and was there before the canal was built.

Genius! Have a greeno.

Sniffy, I would have explained to him that you needed to run the engine to heat your water and charge your batteries, and that you would switch it off before eight o'clock. That's if you DID need to run it, otherwise you could switch it off straight away....although there's a wee devil in me which, faced with such intrusive behaviour, would have kept it running anyway. Much would depend on his tone of voice and attitude.

 

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The OP was at Stockton Heath on the Bridgewater Canal. So CRT's Ts & Cs in relation to running of engines don't apply.  Don't know if the Bridgewater have their own rules, but judging by other reports about their activities, if you upset them you might get a less than pleasant response.

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15 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The OP was at Stockton Heath on the Bridgewater Canal. So CRT's Ts & Cs in relation to running of engines don't apply.  Don't know if the Bridgewater have their own rules, but judging by other reports about their activities, if you upset them you might get a less than pleasant response.

A good point, David - I don't know that part of the canal system, so was unaware that it wasn't a CART waterway.

Perhaps one of our members who moors down that way could tell us about their regulations for running engines.

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7 minutes ago, Athy said:

Thanks, Mr. Boy.

By the same token, neighbours should be considerate towards boaters.

Yes and it also says you should not moor nearer than 10 yards from an angler!  No mention of any restriction on engine running hours.

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36 minutes ago, Athy said:

Genius! Have a greeno.

Sniffy, I would have explained to him that you needed to run the engine to heat your water and charge your batteries, and that you would switch it off before eight o'clock. That's if you DID need to run it, otherwise you could switch it off straight away....although there's a wee devil in me which, faced with such intrusive behaviour, would have kept it running anyway. Much would depend on his tone of voice and attitude.

 

And the size of the bugger LOL.

Neil

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1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

Yes and it also says you should not moor nearer than 10 yards from an angler!  No mention of any restriction on engine running hours.

Ha! That's priceless. Despite the impression which they often give, anglers are dirigible. So if one turns up and plonks himself and his ludicrous amount of tackle five yards from you, are you supposed to move? I suppose if you were there first it's O.K. to stay.

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I have a real problem with NIMBYs. People seem to have no appreciation of just how easy life is for them. I wish people could just look at what life is like around the world and realise. This guy would have made me want to head down to MachineMart to get myself a chainsaw.

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There is quite a difference between someone telling you to turn off your engine and asking politely if you would mind turning off.

when asked politely, I would generally comply; when told, the belligerent side of my personality rears its ugly head

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We had this when moored at Stockton Heath a couple of years ago just passed the recycling place, a very grumpy local :( We moored up by the aqueduct next time, not to give in to him but who needs the grief...... 

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This is, of course, fair and reasonable.

But as boaters we have the right to run engines and gennys between 08:00 and 20:00 on CaRT waters.

When we defer to NIMBYs (for want of a better description for miserable sods who buy a house next to a canal and then whinge about boats) how long before our reasonable behaviour is accepted as custom and practice and we are expected to turn off if asked?

It's the thin end of a wedge.

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17 minutes ago, dogless said:

If it's necessary to run your engine or genny (and I have no problem with either) why moor close to someone's home ?

 I avoid mooring by houses wherever possible as a matter of courtesy.

Cruise as necessary.  If you need to moor for shops or services, turn your engine off, and if you've not run the engine for long enough, then move on until you have, or you're away from peoples home's.

The problem is entirely avoidable with a little consideration.

Just my view, others are available.

Rog

 

I think from my reading of the OP that it doesn't sound as though he had moored close to someone's home. If his assessment if correct he would have been about 150 feet from the nearest boat and 200 yards to the house of the complainant. Now I don't know what engine is fitted in his boat, but you'd be hard pushed to hear my engine 200 yards away (I've been shouted at by fishermen a quarter of that distance away who claimed that they didn't hear me coming). From what I can see on mapping, if the OP was near to London Bridge there is an A road (the A49) passing over the bridge so he is hardly disturbing the peace and quiet of some rural idyll. Now if I'm moored outside of someone's house (Cropredy comes to mind) I will refrain from running the engine, more for the engine fumes than any noise problem, but 200 yards away? It starts to raise the question how close is too close? 200 yards? 500yards?1000 yards?

I think what I would have found objectionable was the fact that the complainant seems to have felt it was OK to bang on the boat of the OP but doesn't seem to have waited to have a civilised discussion with him (OP states that when he stepped out he saw the complainant going down the embankment into his house). It is often easier to get what you want by making a civilised, coherent case than ranting. A conversation along the lines of, "Excuse me but we're in a bit of a cutting along here and when boaters run their engines the fumes tend to concentrate and drift into people's houses, do you think that you could keep the engine running to a minimum" would probably get the result the complainant wanted (I would respond to that, even it the tale weren't true).  Someone banging on the boat telling me to turn my engine off doesn't really start from a good baseline does it?

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On 28/03/2017 at 22:11, dogless said:

If it's necessary to run your engine or genny (and I have no problem with either) why moor close to someone's home ?

 I avoid mooring by houses wherever possible as a matter of courtesy.

Cruise as necessary.  If you need to moor for shops or services, turn your engine off, and if you've not run the engine for long enough, then move on until you have, or you're away from peoples home's.

The problem is entirely avoidable with a little consideration.

Just my view, others are available.

Rog

 

 

^^^This^^^

Totally agree. Big fat greenie. The "I know my rights" brigade have a lot to answer for. 

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

^^^This^^^

Totally agree. Big fat greenie. The "I know my rights" brigade have a lot to answer for. 

Some truth in that. How is it that it so often appears that someone asserting their rights treads all over everyone else's? 

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9 hours ago, Jamboat said:

We had this when moored at Stockton Heath a couple of years ago just passed the recycling place, a very grumpy local :( We moored up by the aqueduct next time, not to give in to him but who needs the grief...... 

Morning all,

As Jamboat describes it would be the same area close to the recycling unit. To clarify, from mooring to the point of the knock on roof would have been no more than 15 minutes, I had cruised for 2 hours so no need to run for charge etc, just was doing other things and would have turned off the engine when the fire was in and burning. I would be fairly certain that the exhaust would not be heard inside the house as its behind bushes and fence and down a slope, and at that time going dark, would also doubt he was in the garden

The man was forthright but not aggressive but to the point that it was an order rather than a request. I'm wondering if that why the mooring spot was vacant !!

Thanks for you comments, its good to see other viewpoints for consideration if it happens again

Edited by sniffy
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A fellow boater had this at Macclesfield whilst he was in the process of mooring up .There are signs around the system where CRT have deferred to neighbours saying not to run engines when moored. Why ?most probably because some boater/s probably ignored the 8 to 8 guideline many years ago.

 

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25 minutes ago, b0atman said:

A fellow boater had this at Macclesfield whilst he was in the process of mooring up .There are signs around the system where CRT have deferred to neighbours saying not to run engines when moored. Why ?most probably because some boater/s probably ignored the 8 to 8 guideline many years ago.

 

It's possible that the irate householder is just generally intolerant, but i suspect you are correct, that the "know my rights - do as you like" contingent have jaded him. This seems to be a problem affecting boating in general, as some folks on our mooring site have upset adjacent businesses to the extent that parking and access privileges have been withdrawn, entirely due to a general lack of respect and a feeling of entitlement.

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11 hours ago, dogless said:

If it's necessary to run your engine or genny (and I have no problem with either) why moor close to someone's home ?

 I avoid mooring by houses wherever possible as a matter of courtesy.

Cruise as necessary.  If you need to moor for shops or services, turn your engine off, and if you've not run the engine for long enough, then move on until you have, or you're away from peoples home's.

The problem is entirely avoidable with a little consideration.

Just my view, others are available.

Rog

 

I agree with that too.  Many years ago we were accosted by a home owner under similar circumstances to the OP's, we were simply mooring up and left the engine running, as you do, but this guy came running out within minutes.   I calmly explained the situation to the gentleman explaining that we had no intention of leaving the engine running once the boat was secured and he in turn apologised for his reaction.  To put it in context he had suffered a series of inconsiderate boaters mooring in the same spot who had continued to run their engines whilst stationary well into the evening and as we all know it can be surprisingly annoying.  But if you are in a boat you at least have the facility to move elsewhere, unlike a householder.

We live on a fairly busy main street and though the traffic noise isn't a problem, it is infuriating when someone pulls up outside the house and leaves the engine going, (why they do it I really don't know) so I sympathise with the occupiers of canalside properties. 

  

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