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Moving a Porthole


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Well there's 2 jobs really.......removing a porthole to make good the area (let me guess, its a flat side panel area of the boat - the worst place to weld something in without distortion) and then install a porthole into a metal side panel (which I dare say is the easier of the two). And then there's the interior trim issue, interior insulation, possible wiring or pipework rerouting, possibly framework behind the new location, etc etc (we don't know these details but you do - this is an unlined sailaway? or a lined sailaway? or a finished boat, etc etc). No doubt there will be paintwork to rectify too.

Give serious consideration to leaving the original porthole in place (maybe with a dark/black/limo tint?) and installing another, if it won't look too disasterous???

Edited by Paul C
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2 hours ago, jddevel said:

How easy would forum members believe moving a porthole about 400mm along the hull would be. Plus is price just a case of "phone around". 

 

AsPaulC says really, i wouldnt worrk on distortion on welding a plate in the old hole. Just a matter of doing a small run at a time every 90deg. to big s run will mess it right up.

 

 

It all depends how handy you are and what time you have. 

 

Myself i cant see it being that hard if you have the gear and a little time. 

 

But then i would just do it. I am like that, dont ask just do. 

 

 

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Thank you all for your thoughts. The craft is a sailaway hull that I`m fitting out. Unfortunately whilst 95 percent of the window/porthole layout suits us-not so the bathroom. In an ideal world we`d like to move a porthole by 200mm towards the bow. Cables, interior fittings etc are not a problem.  Unfortunately as the boat currently is ashore near Plymouth a local welding company would have to be used. Since listing the topic -started out of frustration-I`ve spoken to a local company I`ve used before who managed to fabricate a water pump in aluminium for my 1931 Humber car so I `m reasonable confident in their abilities. http://weldspray-engineering.co.uk/ They`ve quoted a days work at £250 +VAT. On the bases of if I don`t do it now I know I`ll regret it later.

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As said, it's now or never, and that's not a bad price at all.

Only hard thing is getting the old hole filled with minimal weld distortion on what is likely a largely unsupported thin flat sheet. Filler should be kept to an absolute minimum.

 

Daniel

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I`m no welder- my attempts are laughable but would it be possible to first remove the existing window, weld some form of strengthening on the inside before welding a circular plate from the outside. If I`ve made myself clear and I`ve made sense?

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35 minutes ago, jddevel said:

I`m no welder- my attempts are laughable but would it be possible to first remove the existing window, weld some form of strengthening on the inside before welding a circular plate from the outside. If I`ve made myself clear and I`ve made sense?

I don't think it's strength that's the problem. It's heat distortion of the flat cabin side that's in question. Magnets will hold the circular piece perfectly flush and stitch welding should minimise distortion but I'm no welder either and I don't know how possible it is to get it invisible. 

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On 28/03/2017 at 20:37, jddevel said:

Thank you all for your thoughts. The craft is a sailaway hull that I`m fitting out. Unfortunately whilst 95 percent of the window/porthole layout suits us-not so the bathroom. In an ideal world we`d like to move a porthole by 200mm towards the bow. Cables, interior fittings etc are not a problem.  Unfortunately as the boat currently is ashore near Plymouth a local welding company would have to be used. Since listing the topic -started out of frustration-I`ve spoken to a local company I`ve used before who managed to fabricate a water pump in aluminium for my 1931 Humber car so I `m reasonable confident in their abilities. http://weldspray-engineering.co.uk/ They`ve quoted a days work at £250 +VAT. On the bases of if I don`t do it now I know I`ll regret it later.

 

You'll regret it.

For the whole of the time you own the boat you'll be able the see where the old one was. It will grin through the paintwork at you no matter how much effort they put into disguising it for their £250 day's work.

Moving the porthole is an hour's work. Bunging up the old hole invisibly will take a lifetime.

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If it were a car bodywork repair in a similar area (ie a large flat area), a professional repair would look to a 'feature' such as a swage line or the end of a panel, to do the repaired area to. For example if it were a 2 door saloon and the rear wing had damage severe enough to need welding, they would replace the entire wing from where it meets the rear lights/bumper, to the front door pillar - a substantial piece of metalwork about 1m x 1.5m in size. Or, if a roof needed a welded repair, then a car's entire roof would be chopped at the top of the pillars, and an entire new panel fitted. Remember how cars used to have vinyl roofs quite often? Partly this was because a painted roof shows imperfections more easily - these days car bodywork pressings are better, so there is less of a need (and most cars now have a sunroof too, which reduces the flat area).

I wonder if it might be possible to take your replaced/altered area right up to another window, but given the typical bodywork of a narrowboat I doubt it would be a small area. I distinctly remember on our boat a 'join' where it was obvious that >1 panel had been used to make the flat sides, it was in line with the edge of a (rectangular) window so didn't look too conspicuous. The roof wasn't too bad, partly because it had items on it, and partly because it had textured (grip) paint effect/finish.

So maybe there's a way of disguising the repair....possibly graphics or signwriting? But I doubt it will ever be possible to make it invisible if its a smooth painted flat panel.

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In my experience wherever this is attempted you can always see what has gone on, as MTB suggests.

If you go to boat-builders who take this kind of thing seriously, then often they will remove and replace an entire length of side, and not attempt to keep the length where the porthole was.

You seem uncertain how much you want to move it, as your first post suggests 400mm, but the next only 200mm.  If you really mean the latter, then you are moving it by the typical size that a porthole is in the first place, so your new hole is likely to be only very marginally to one side of where your old hole was, which will probably end up looking worse than if it were somewhere away.  Also do you know there is no internal bracing that will get in the way of the new location?

I have just had several holes infilled in the engine room of one of our historic boats, done by Brinklow Boats, who are about as good as you get.  Once it is out of primer, and over-painted, I think all will be slightly visible to some degree, and I didn't expect otherwise.  As most are in a "well worn" roof originating from 1936, it doesn't matter, and simply adds to the character. If it were a brand new shell it would look completely out of place.  Also I'm over-painting in a Raddle Red, semi matt finish, which hides a multitude of unevenness - painted in a high gloss finish it would be far more visible.

I think you will have worked out by now that if you care about end appearance do not do this.

 

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If it is 400mm away (unsure if you mean 400mm clear or centre to centre as it were), anyway I mean a "reasonable" distance away, why not just leave the old porthole and simply panel over on the interior, obviously with the new porthole where you want it? You could even put a mock blind/curtain type thing to match whatever you are doing with the other porthole. Much better than an unsightly weld.

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On 29/03/2017 at 19:21, jddevel said:

Right decision made. It stays as it is. Have redesigned and am convinced it now works. The porthole stays as is. I just needed the opinion of others to force me to review. Thank you.

 

It will look TERRIBLE....

:lol::lol:

 

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On 29/03/2017 at 22:05, system 4-50 said:

Portholes? You don't want portholes, you wants bus windows! You can cut one big enuff to include the old hole. Now, about the type of toilet...

 

I said it would still look terrible because I believe the OP is building a widebeam....

:ninja::ninja:

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