Jump to content

RCD Compliance


Featured Posts

1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

 

My RCD compliance cost me the price of registering a Craft identification Number with the RYA, the cost of a Builder's Plate, and the cost of petrol & parking to access the library.  You have stated that you have compiled a technical file, so you have admitted that you can do it yourself, and would not need to spend £1500.  To suggest that a public library in the UK (before the recent budget cutbacks) could not access British (and the corresponding international) Standards, for example through the computer system currently used for all such documents, is highly suspect IMHO.  

OK, it looks like we both did much the same thing, I also have a Craft identification number and a builders plate (The only thing that I know of that would 'fail' the RCD is the fact that the letter punches that I used on the plate are a couple of mm too small) All the electrics are to the standards of the time, about 10 years ago, the only way to get the standards at the time was paper copies. But, for example, I made all the windows, wheelhouse and doors out of hardwood, do they comply? and with what? Its easy if you buy the windows and doors, the manufacturers can supply some sort of paperwork. The boat is full of stuff like that and in the end it became obvious that to use the RCD as any sort of guide is next to impossible, in the end you just have to say that in my opinion it is ok and sign the declaration.  After 3(?) years it is all history anyway (5 to sell) and then it is down to Boat Safety regs. The whole process is still pretty meaningless and to rely on it as having much relevance to either safety or quality is a mistake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used the standards available on line from the library in 2006.  When I asked for the librarians' help it was not a novelty - the system was well established.  In the previous millenium I regularly visited my company's library to borrow copies of BS and international standards, but I can't recall doing so since 1998.

Again you seem to be saying that you couldn't be bothered to research their availability from your library.  What you are saying is that you confirm you made a Declaration of Conformity for the RCD, issued a builder's plate with CE marking, got a CIN from the RYA, without actually knowing if your boat complies - as you say: The only thing that I know of that would 'fail' the RCD .......... but you don't actually know the requirements of the standards you haven't bothered to source.

You say : The boat is full of stuff like that and in the end it became obvious that to use the RCD as any sort of guide is next to impossible.  It seems you have entirely missed the point of the RCD.  Everything in your boat should comply with the relevant Standard, and the RCD is not responsible for defining what those standards might be.  It cannot be anything other than a generalisation with regard to such matters.   Because you don't understand the process and can't be bothered to ensure compliance does not make the process 'pretty meaningless' .  However in your case your pretence at attempting to conform certainly appears to be meaningless.

It seems that you confirm that your Builder's Plate and CIN have been produced/obtained fraudulently.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, Its not worth arguing over semantics. My view of the importance of the RCD is different from yours. I doubt we will ever either agree or convince the other that one of us is wrong. In the meantime We are planning another trip down the Somme and if the boat explodes in a fireball it will be because I've hit something unexploded in the mud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bee said:

OK, Its not worth arguing over semantics. My view of the importance of the RCD is different from yours. I doubt we will ever either agree or convince the other that one of us is wrong. In the meantime We are planning another trip down the Somme and if the boat explodes in a fireball it will be because I've hit something unexploded in the mud.

don't be silly.  You know the only relevance of the RCD is related to selling a boat within 5 years of completion.

it is not semantics, it is about horses for courses;  you've either entered a lame pony for the Grand National, or you've entered an arab stallion for the Monaco GP.  You decide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone who thinks that boatbuilders who build boats under the RCD scheme for inland waters (ie class D and C, the classes where self-certification is allowed, compared to the others where independent certification is required) 100% comply with the RCD, is being a little naive. However they are more-or-less broadly complying, which is seemingly deemed acceptable in the industry. Certainly there is no outcry of the more popular boatbuilders obviously cutting corners. Indeed, if they did then their reputation would suffer greatly - it just wouldn't make business sense to do so. And everyone seems happy enough that they are able to self-certify.

Once you consider small boatbuilders ie amateurs/hobbyists doing it, then business reputation plays no role at all (except for making it a decent job for their own benefit, or possible eye on resale price). Cut too many corners and it starts becoming obvious; then a prospective buyer might think "I'm not a boat expert yet I can clearly see that's been done in a dodgy way......what else that isn't so obvious hasn't been done right...." Non-compliant nav lights have already been mentioned (can't refer the post number but see above), but obviously there are many other areas where even a non-expert could detect RCD non-compliance. Unfortunately there are plenty of other areas which would require disassembly to properly determine (these areas would be inspected and signed off during build on a class a/b vessel).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the end of the day, nobody is really going around inspecting boats for RCD compliance other than those employed to do so by their manufacturers. A buyer's surveyor might spot some things they recognise as not being done to the specs, but that's about it. You can compile a technical file and 99.99% of the time nobody will ever read it. About the only scenario it would get looked at is if there was a major accident and big-money lawyers ended up poring over the details in a long court case. And why would they bother? Usually it's cheaper to settle than to get into the details.

It's the same with most other products and most other such EU directives. The manufacturer slaps a DoC on it and, supposedly, has a technical file stashed away in case someone wants to check but nobody does. The file may be rigourous or sketchy or not exist at all. You can imagine how it goes.

For various things that actually matter, like aviation kit or medical devices, there are "notified bodies" who have to review everything and issue an approval before a CE mark can be applied. For everything else, it's essentially a system of self-regulation where people do as much as they feel like doing to cover their arse, and will almost always get away with it.

Personally I take some pleasure in doing things by the book when I design things, but then I have the benefit of people willing to pay me to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the main advantages of buying an RCD compliant boat secondhand, is that it comes with a manual covering all aspects of design (including electrical and plumbing schematic diagrams) and installed equipment servicing/operation instructions.

Even if some things have changed,  it still gives you a head start in understanding how to operate and maintain the boat and it's installed equipment. 

I have amended the manual as I have added things to my boat,  so that it stays relevant.

Edited by cuthound
To add the last sentance.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
On 28/03/2017 at 13:45, Murflynn said:

I used the standards available on line from the library in 2006.  When I asked for the librarians' help it was not a novelty - the system was well established.  In the previous millenium I regularly visited my company's library to borrow copies of BS and international standards, but I can't recall doing so since 1998.

Again you seem to be saying that you couldn't be bothered to research their availability from your library.  What you are saying is that you confirm you made a Declaration of Conformity for the RCD, issued a builder's plate with CE marking, got a CIN from the RYA, without actually knowing if your boat complies - as you say: The only thing that I know of that would 'fail' the RCD .......... but you don't actually know the requirements of the standards you haven't bothered to source.

You say : The boat is full of stuff like that and in the end it became obvious that to use the RCD as any sort of guide is next to impossible.  It seems you have entirely missed the point of the RCD.  Everything in your boat should comply with the relevant Standard, and the RCD is not responsible for defining what those standards might be.  It cannot be anything other than a generalisation with regard to such matters.   Because you don't understand the process and can't be bothered to ensure compliance does not make the process 'pretty meaningless' .  However in your case your pretence at attempting to conform certainly appears to be meaningless.

It seems that you confirm that your Builder's Plate and CIN have been produced/obtained fraudulently.

OH dear seriously !!!!! are you a happy person or do you just enjoy accusing people of fraud, perhaps you are not aware doing that is illegal and slander so before you go around doing that I suggest you check the law on what you say even online forums are accountable these days......

 

 

On 28/03/2017 at 21:00, Paul C said:

Anyone who thinks that boatbuilders who build boats under the RCD scheme for inland waters (ie class D and C, the classes where self-certification is allowed, compared to the others where independent certification is required) 100% comply with the RCD, is being a little naive. However they are more-or-less broadly complying, which is seemingly deemed acceptable in the industry. Certainly there is no outcry of the more popular boatbuilders obviously cutting corners. Indeed, if they did then their reputation would suffer greatly - it just wouldn't make business sense to do so. And everyone seems happy enough that they are able to self-certify.

Once you consider small boatbuilders ie amateurs/hobbyists doing it, then business reputation plays no role at all (except for making it a decent job for their own benefit, or possible eye on resale price). Cut too many corners and it starts becoming obvious; then a prospective buyer might think "I'm not a boat expert yet I can clearly see that's been done in a dodgy way......what else that isn't so obvious hasn't been done right...." Non-compliant nav lights have already been mentioned (can't refer the post number but see above), but obviously there are many other areas where even a non-expert could detect RCD non-compliance. Unfortunately there are plenty of other areas which would require disassembly to properly determine (these areas would be inspected and signed off during build on a class a/b vessel).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have just finished having our boat surveyed and we got a very good deal with a local surveyor to do all the RCD compliance, our main reason for doing it was if we may sell not because we have to do the RCD complaince because we bend over backwards to EU Law but because if we want to get a good price for it, it makes sense and to be honest did not cost much to have it done at all.  The surveyor stated that we was one of the most safety compliant boats he has ever seen and because everything was so well documented and using the right marine electrician and gas safety people this has made doing this for him very easy he just updated our manual with all the additional information required and spent a day doing other documentation and inspections.  If anyone wants the surveyors name and number PM me as he does good rates and is an expert in the area of RCD compliance as well.

 

I would not of got it done had it not be a thought that we may sell the boat due to family circumstances as even the surveyor said it is EU Bureaucracy and most people that follow BSS standards are on top of it all in any case.  If you are not thinking of selling the boat I would not bother at all as it really is nothing more than paperwork to proove that you have done the right things in terms of safety and build which most people would do anyway ....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.