How much extra storage space do you really get WB -v- NB

[JJPHG]

Ok - so some of you may know I'm in the early stages of planning a build and I was tending towards a 58' x 10'.  However, I've been thinking, how much real extra usable (storage etc.) space does that give me over a 6'10 or lets say 7'er?  I'm going to be single manning so I don't need the space to walk around anybody else so how much of the extra 30% or so the extra 3' width gives me is just 'luxury' space (that will need heating in winter)?  

Ignoring the access to different routes side of things, engine am I better of spending the money on clever carpentry etc. or is it likely to be more cost effective to go with the fatter option and have 'standard' fittings?

[Robbo]

You don't go for a wide beam for the extra storage it will give you will adapt to whatever storage is available.  A 10ft wide boat is nearly 50% wider than a 7ft boat and the feeling of space that this gives you is more like 300%!  I suggest you visit some boats of various widths to decide.

[JJPHG]

Thanks Robbo - visiting is the problem as I'm on t'other side of the world.  Well used to NB from holidays but WB are a new kettle of fish to me.  My Sis is going to Crick for me this year to see how things have changed (or not) and might be lucky to catch a WB their.  

I take you point about adapting to what's available but I (hopefully) have the luxury of planning a build to fit my need rather than the other way round.

I'm really putting the post out their I suppose to see if 'benefit' of a WB over a NB is as you say the feeling of space as opposed to anything else.

[WotEver]

I've never owned a wb but I've been aboard a few. The feeling of space inside is a world away from a narrowboat. As above, it might be only 50% more width but it feels more like 200%

[Robbo]

If your getting one built and thinking about going wide I would strongly suggest a visit over and see as many boats as possible.   It will not only confirm what size you want but give you ideas of the fit out and design.

 

[Neil Smith]

I would say a 58 foot narrow boat will big enough for a single handler, and you can do all the waterways as a bonus, we have one this size that i built from a shell to meet our needs and find it big enough for 2.

Neil

[BruceinSanity]

I think the issue about cruising range can't just be dismissed. If you want a decent amount of cruising all round the system, go narrow. If you are content with a reduced range, North or South, go wide.

In your place, I'd buy second hand first, or you will make a mess of designing your first boat and will want to build a second one.

Edited March 20, 2017 by BruceinSanity

[adam1uk]

1 hour ago, JJPHG said:

My Sis is going to Crick for me this year to see how things have changed (or not) and might be lucky to catch a WB their.  

She will definitely be able to see widebeams at the Crick Show.  The number of them on show has been going up and up each year, and I wouldn't be surprised if they outnumber narrowboats on show, if not this year then in the next couple of years.

But as Bruce says, your main consideration shouldn't be about storage space, it should be about where you want to go.

[Neil2]

I'm in total agreement with Bruce and Adam, in terms of space it is absolutely no contest but a WB is really seen as a cheap way of getting a country cottage or second home these days.  Yes you get a lot more for your money  but you won't be going anywhere.  You can't dismiss this from your considerations.  If you want to explore the uk waterways narrow is the way to go. 

The increased popularity of widebeams IMHO is a significant factor in the reduction of moving traffic on the canals these days.   Some might see that as a good thing but it certainly isn't good for the long term health of the network and its infrastructure.   

 

[chubby]

My narrowboat is 58 ft long . Im on my todd too . For me it has more space than i need . After 4 years living aboard i still have empty cupboards on board . Its a liverpool boat co build . A much maligned builder but the layout of mine is excellent. Visitors when they first enter through the bow doors often comment that it " feels " spacious . 

I think to some extent serious thought needs to be paid to layout . Mine is open plan . Saloon at bow with a huge full size Ikea sofa  , dinette , U shaped kitchen to port and a corridor down to the bedcabin via the bathroom. No internal walls - i can see all the way from bow door to rear door . High ceilings, painted white , cream paint on the walls adds to the feeling of spaciousness . 

I deliberately keep clutter minimal , because i like to live simply . There are huge storage spaces on board & if i removed the black water tank from beneath my bed i'd have more space than id ever need for storage . Thinking about storage from the outset will help . Needing less clutter will help . 

I think that one person on thier own really doesn't need a widebeam . If you WANT a widebeam then go for it , but i really wouldnt want one as a single handler . Ive never been in a widebeam so cannot comment about the space , but from my own experience on my narrowboat i would consider the extra space as either a waste or a luxury . A full size proper bed and bedroom are the only benefits i can imagine , but then i love my little bedcabin and its size is perfect for me . Less is more - atleast to me it is 

Other possible considerations : cost of build & fitout , cruising range , single handling , heating of a larger space ? Resale value ? 

I think the best bit of advice on this thread so far has been the suggestion you buy a secondhand boat . It is 100% the way forward . You get more for your money & will be able to learn from its ownership - you may go on to commission a wide boat afterward but you'll have learnt what you really want or need through experience rather than theory. 

To me i think narrow beam , 58 ft long , well thought out interior- open plan , lots of storage , pay mind to electrical systems - inverters , solar , etc and you can have yourself a very nice , functional & enjoyable boat without the need to go wide . 

cheers

Edited March 20, 2017 by chubby

[Robbo]

One comment about wide beams is that they are based on the narrow boat style, which isn't brilliant if you actually want to use the boat for cruising.  It's not the size it's the style features that make it that little more awkward than a "proper" boat that's 10ft-12ft wide!  So if you're tempted for a wide boat I would take a look at the old working boats (like dutch and english).  Most of these will still outlast a new build, and they are many that are just asking for a refit.   They will also be more suitable for the waterways of Europe if you find yourself wanting to venture in that area as well.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Robbo

[WotEver]

11 minutes ago, chubby said:

My narrowboat is 58 ft long . Im on my todd too . For me it has more space than i need . After 4 years living aboard i still have empty cupboards on board . Its a liverpool boat co build . A much maligned builder but the layout of mine is excellent. Visitors when they first enter through the bow doors often comment that it " feels " spacious . 

I think to some extent serious thought needs to be paid to layout . Mine is open plan . Saloon at bow with a huge full size Ikea sofa  , dinette , U shaped kitchen to port and a corridor down to the bedcabin via the bathroom. No internal walls - i can see all the way from bow door to rear door . High ceilings, painted white , cream paint on the walls adds to the feeling of spaciousness . 

I deliberately keep clutter minimal , because i like to live simply . There are huge storage spaces on board & if i removed the black water tank from beneath my bed i'd have more space than id ever need for storage . Thinking about storage from the outset will help . Needing less clutter will help . 

I think that one person on thier own really doesn't need a widebeam . If you WANT a widebeam then go for it , but i really wouldnt want one as a single handler . Ive never been in a widebeam so cannot comment about the space , but from my own experience on my narrowboat i would consider the extra space as either a waste or a luxury . A full size proper bed and bedroom are the only benefits i can imagine , but then i love my little bedcabin and its size is perfect for me . Less is more - atleast to me it is 

Other possible considerations : cost of build & fitout , cruising range , single handling , heating of a larger space ? Resale value ? 

I think the best bit of advice on this thread so far has been the suggestion you buy a secondhand boat . It is 100% the way forward . You get more for your money & will be able to learn from its ownership - you may go on to commission a wide boat afterward but you'll have learnt what you really want or need through experience rather than theory. 

To me i think narrow beam , 58 ft long , well thought out interior- open plan , lots of storage , pay mind to electrical systems - inverters , solar , etc and you can have yourself a very nice , functional & enjoyable boat without the need to go wide . 

cheers

I totally agree with all of that, for what it's worth 

[Robbo]

I wouldn't worry about single handing a wide beam, it's no different from a narrow beam.  To be honest it's the length that makes things more difficult in both locking and winding.   ie. my boat is 50ftx12ft, and when on the L&L I have quite a bit of room in the lock to keep away from the cill and the gates, if it was 60ftx7ft I would have less room and less margin for errors.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Robbo

[chubby]

another thing , very important to bear in mind is that a widebeam will be as ugly as sin ........ 

I think " Widebeam narrowboat s" have all the grace and aesthetic appeal of a shoe box . But thats a personal opinion only ...... 

cheers

 

ETA : Whereas a dutch barge style boat either real or relica looks " right " & i really admire them . Id even own one perhaps at a later date 

Edited March 20, 2017 by chubby

[JJPHG]

Bruce and Adam - I may well go down 2nd hand route but I do have about 6 months (not huge I know) time clocked so I have some firm ideas of what I like/want (reverse layout, built-in assisted lifting mechanism thingy fitted to the bed to allow easier to storage underneath are a couple).  Buying 2nd hand from 10000 miles away might be more problematical/fraught and part of the reason for planning this far ahead (3/4 years) is that which ever route I take (or both) I will have nailed down either what I want or what I'm looking for.

I expect to be cc'ing even (especially) in winter and appreciate the limitations if I went WB

Chubby - thanks for your insight.  My plans are also for open plan 

Neil - interesting point about less traffic - certainly attractive to me but understand the sustainability issues re the network.

[JJPHG]

7 minutes ago, chubby said:

another thing , very important to bear in mind is that a widebeam will be as ugly as sin ........ 

I think " Widebeam narrowboat s" have all the grace and aesthetic appeal of a shoe box . But thats a personal opinion only ...... 

 

 Yes - there are only a few I've liked the look of and they have all been 10ft'ers

[JJPHG]

22 minutes ago, Robbo said:

One comment about wide beams is that they are based on the narrow boat style, which isn't brilliant if you actually want to use the boat for cruising.  It's not the size it's the style features that make it that little more awkward than a "proper" boat that's 10ft-12ft wide!  So if you're tempted for a wide boat I would take a look at the old working boats (like dutch and english).  Most of these will still outlast a new build, and they are many that are just asking for a refit.   They will also be more suitable for the waterways of Europe if you find yourself wanting to venture in that area as well.

Yes - still flirting with the idea as I spent a decade on the continent so it would be nice to have that option.  Certainly if finances pan out to 'best' scenario I would go down the Dutch barge route but looking at most likely.

[Robbo]

3 minutes ago, JJPHG said:

 Yes - there are only a few I've liked the look of and they have all been 10ft'ers

My friend is selling this boat (up sizing), which I think the shape is really nice and good for cruising as well.

Now the benefits of this style boat this size over a wide beam is that you can easily move around the exterior of the boat, the gunnels are wide enough to walk on, you can easily get on the roof, the bollards are in the right place.  You can see the bow and the sides when steering due to shape of the roof at the front.

The interior isn't to my taste tho.  http://www.waterwitchemporium.co.uk/dutch-barge-for-sale/4592473117.  

 

[rgreg]

42 minutes ago, Robbo said:

I wouldn't worry about single handing a wide beam, it's no different from a narrow beam.  To be honest it's the length that makes things more difficult in both locking and winding.   ie. my boat is 50ftx12ft, and when on the L&L I have quite a bit of room in the lock to keep away from the cill and the gates, if it was 60ftx7ft I would have less room and less margin for errors.

One disadvantage of a widebeam when single-handing is having to open both lock gates whereas you can (if careful) manage with just one on a narrow.

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, rgreg said:

One disadvantage of a widebeam when single-handing is having to open both lock gates whereas you can (if careful) manage with just one on a narrow.

Locks are slower when single handing anyhow, opening both sides isn't the slowest part, mooring up to close/open the gates is.

[mross]

But widebeams use less water, so the lock will fill or empty more quickly.

[rgreg]

17 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Locks are slower when single handing anyhow, opening both sides isn't the slowest part, mooring up to close/open the gates is.

I know boating is not always a question of speed but there's no doubt having to open and close both gates makes the task significantly greater, especially when you're on your own. However, some may be quite happy with that and feel the extra space of a widebeam is worth the extra effort, but it's just something to consider. When I'm single-handing a narrow in broad locks I prefer to work one side only if possible (gates and paddles).

[mrsmelly]

9 hours ago, JJPHG said:

Ok - so some of you may know I'm in the early stages of planning a build and I was tending towards a 58' x 10'.  However, I've been thinking, how much real extra usable (storage etc.) space does that give me over a 6'10 or lets say 7'er?  I'm going to be single manning so I don't need the space to walk around anybody else so how much of the extra 30% or so the extra 3' width gives me is just 'luxury' space (that will need heating in winter)?  

Ignoring the access to different routes side of things, engine am I better of spending the money on clever carpentry etc. or is it likely to be more cost effective to go with the fatter option and have 'standard' fittings?

I have owned and lived on both wide and narrow. The space though only 3 feet is in reality fantastic. We cruised our widebeam just as much ( though not as far ) as our narrowbeams.

To sum up Widebeams are unimaginably better to live on with VASTLY more storage/ furnishing options. There is only one reason to buy a narrowbeam and that is cruising options, they are hugely restricted on a widebeam in the uk.

If you want to " Do " the system then it MUST be narrow, if you are not worried and want to stay oop North or Daarn saarf then there is still a lot of cruising to be done on widebeam they are easy to handle even single handed and are soooooo much nicer to be aboard.

Edited March 20, 2017 by mrsmelly

[Robbo]

11 minutes ago, rgreg said:

I know boating is not always a question of speed but there's no doubt having to open and close both gates makes the task significantly greater, especially when you're on your own. However, some may be quite happy with that and feel the extra space of a widebeam is worth the extra effort, but it's just something to consider. When I'm single-handing a narrow in broad locks I prefer to work one side only if possible (gates and paddles).

I wouldn't say it's significantly greater at all, it's a small part in doing a lock.  I find mooring up to open/close the gates is the biggest significant thing when single handing over a couple or more doing a lock.

 

[Robbo]

One thing to note is that you may find it harder to figure a layout when designing a wider boat over a narrow.  Narrowboat's limit your options, where wide gives you more and sometimes that's not a good thing!