Defibrillators

[Grassman]

Does anybody know if any marinas have a defibrillator on site?

 

Given that the majority of narrowboaters are middle aged or over, that most marinas have quite a few liveaboards or regular users,  and that many are in rural areas miles away from the nearest A&E facility, perhaps it would be prudent for every marina to have one.

 

Your thoughts?

[Robbo]

Would the moorers want to pay for the defibrillator and running costs?   Most properly not.

[WotEver]

And who would use it? I certainly wouldn't feel confident in when and how.

I had a neighbour die of a heart attack in front of me and had I had a defibrillator to hand I wouldn't have used it unless the 999 operator talked me through it. 

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

And who would use it? I certainly wouldn't feel confident in when and how.

I had a neighbour die of a heart attack in front of me and had I had a defibrillator to hand I wouldn't have used it unless the 999 operator talked me through it. 

I think you will find modern defibrillators are almost automatic.   You fit the pads to the part of the chest indicated and the machine basically does the rest (or so I am told).

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes - our marina has a de-fib.

 

De-fibs are very simple to use, simply attach pads to chest (as per illustration on machine) and stand back.

The machine will sense if their is any heartbeat and will not shock if there is.

They are idiot-proof hence them being on 'show' in public places, you can have training if needed.

We regularly (annually) had de-fib update 'training' from the Red-Cross, and I believe that BWML Sawley recently did the same - sure I read it somewhere.

Ours cost around £2000 for the full kit with oxygen etc etc.

[Afloat]

11 minutes ago, WotEver said:

And who would use it? I certainly wouldn't feel confident in when and how.

I had a neighbour die of a heart attack in front of me and had I had a defibrillator to hand I wouldn't have used it unless the 999 operator talked me through it. 

With the modern Defibs, anyone can use them.

Copied from a first aid site:

It is necessary to act quickly and deliberately if a person is in cardiac arrest and fighting to stay alive. In the UK, it has been found that an average of 60,000 cardiac arrests happen outside of hospitals every single year. The British Heart Foundation states that with every minute without defibrillation a casualties chance of survival reduces by 14%. 

Whilst training is recommended for using AEDs, today’s models provided clear step by step instructions and only allow a shock to be delivered to a casualty if it is needed making AEDs suitable for use by both trained and untrained personnel. A use of a defibrillator on a casualty by an untrained user still offers the best chance of survival for a casualty.

[WotEver]

12 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I think you will find modern defibrillators are almost automatic.   You fit the pads to the part of the chest indicated and the machine basically does the rest (or so I am told).

 

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

They are idiot-proof hence them being on 'show' in public places, you can have training if needed  

 

1 minute ago, Afloat said:

Whilst training is recommended for using AEDs, today’s models provided clear step by step instructions and only allow a shock to be delivered to a casualty if it is needed making AEDs suitable for use by both trained and untrained personnel.

Thanks for the info guys. This idiot has learned another new thing today

[dor]

Aqueduct Marina on the Middlewich Branch has one, along with a number of trained staff who have been given instruction in its use.  Although as others have said, they should be foolproof, but someone trained in their use will get it in place quicker and seconds can count.

Edited March 19, 2017 by dor
Spelling!

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Afloat said:

It is necessary to act quickly and deliberately if a person is in cardiac arrest and fighting to stay alive. In the UK, it has been found that an average of 60,000 cardiac arrests happen outside of hospitals every single year. The British Heart Foundation states that with every minute without defibrillation a casualties chance of survival reduces by 14%. 

That being the case, you would think they would be able to get pretty quick treatment.

Must be the stress of trying to find a parking-space.

[Neil2]

I think the OP raises a good point.  There's a lot of public access difib's up here where the nearest hospital - or even doctor - might be many miles away over bad roads. We actually have two in our village.   They are, as others have said, completely automatic.  I suspect some of the large remote marinas might well consider it a worthwhile expense.

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

I think the OP raises a good point.  There's a lot of public access difib's up here where the nearest hospital - or even doctor - might be many miles away over bad roads. We actually have two in our village.   They are, as others have said, completely automatic.  I suspect some of the large remote marinas might well consider it a worthwhile expense.

Doing a little googling they don't seem terribly expensive and you can even get one at £1.20 a day which spread over the number of boats in a marina wouldn't seem too bad to me.

[Guest]

The marina we are in at the moment has one BUT locked away in the office

so out of hours and when closed on Thursdays no one can get to it, what use is that?

[Alway Swilby]

Pretty sure there's one at Crick. 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, oats said:

out of hours and when closed on Thursdays no one can get to it, what use is that?

A lot better than nothing - available 9-5, 6 days per week (48 hours per week)

Obviously the marina considers the chance of it being there the next day, if left unattended overnight, means that it would soon become 'totally unavailable'.

Better available for a 1/3rd of the time that not available at all.

[Graham Davis]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

And who would use it? I certainly wouldn't feel confident in when and how.

I had a neighbour die of a heart attack in front of me and had I had a defibrillator to hand I wouldn't have used it unless the 999 operator talked me through it. 

A modern de-fib unit, such as those now found on various High St's, is designed for the complete amateur to use.

Once the box is opened there are generally a couple of diagrams showing where to put the pads and an automatic "ON" switch. The machine will only work if the pads are roughly in the right area, and will not work if the patient is not suitable for "shocking". The machine will tell you when to "shock" and will set the limits itself. They even now sense if you are touching the casualty. They are fool proof. 

They are nothing to be scared of, and may save a life.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Graham Davis
Missing word

[WotEver]

Yes, as has been previously pointed out and acknowledged. 

[dor]

t post

Quote

 

The marina we are in at the moment has one BUT locked away in the office

so out of hours and when closed on Thursdays no one can get to it, what use is that?

 

 

 

0

My son was going to get one to put outside his dental surgery.  He was advised to keep it inside as it would be unlikely to still be there within 48 hours.  And that is in a smart part of Bristol!

Apparently the batteries are sought after.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, dor said:

t post

 

 

0

My son was going to get one to put outside his dental surgery.  He was advised to keep it inside as it would be unlikely to still be there within 48 hours.  And that is in a smart part of Bristol!

Apparently the batteries are sought after.

From memory about £150 to replace the batteries, the 'pads' have to be replaced every 3 years as well, so there are 'running costs' of about £50 per year.

If you also have an oxygen set in the 'kit', then this needs pressure testing every so often - these things are not 'free' of cost once purchased.

[Bod]

42 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

Pretty sure there's one at Crick. 

Yes, in the laundry room.

 

Bod

[LEO]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That being the case, you would think they would be able to get pretty quick treatment.

Must be the stress of trying to find a parking-space.

 

And then paying for it.......................................

[mrsmelly]

There is one on the wall at my local pub. They are very easy to use. I am looking at buying one myself very soon as the price has come down dramaticaly over recent years.

[Mac of Cygnet]

There is one at Sowerby Bridge wharf, but nothing to do with the boatyard, being outside the gates in a public area.  I note that it is opened with a keypad, the code for which you get by dialling 999.

[BruceinSanity]

We have two at Mercia, one on the wall outside the office in the public area and one held either in the office or with the on-call first aider out of hours. There have been several training evenings on CPR including using the AED.

One thing about CPR, if it's needed, have a go, things can't get worse for the casualty, they are dying in front of you.

[mross]

It seems contradictory as a defibrilator can not start a heart that has stopped.  In sudden cardiac arrest your heart doesn't stop it just throws a wobbly which a defibrillator can fix.  First Aid courses would probably save more lives than defibrillators in every marina.

[cuthound]

4 minutes ago, mross said:

It seems contradictory as a defibrilator can not start a heart that has stopped.  In sudden cardiac arrest your heart doesn't stop it just throws a wobbly which a defibrillator can fix.  First Aid courses would probably save more lives than defibrillators in every marina.

Whilst CPR skills are very useful, they do not in fact save that many people whose heart has stopped. When I was working I had to attend an "emergency aid" course every 2 years.

On last couple of courses I  attended the instructor said that only 4% of CPR'a will be successful.

The reason why they now state this is to try to reduce the the depression of the person giving CPR by reducing his expectations of a successful recovery. I understand the the number of successful recoveries by defibrillator is about 3-4 times that of CPR.