Can I restore a narrow boat

[Darrenroberts]

Hi guys, iam in desperate need of some advice here. Iam a cabinetmaker and my farther is a sheet metal worker (/engineer with decades of experience) together where looking to restore a 45-50foot trad stern narrow boat. Now I've spent months researching all the dos and donts here but I've hit a dead end I've got a tiny budget in narrow boat terms of around 6k and I've been looking at some very poorly boats indeed. But I've finally found one I think I could make work. Now it's been out of the water for 7 years but not because it wouldn't float its owners moved to France and it's been advertised as needing a refit. Perfect for me as if it comes to wood work it's cheers as chips for me.but I wanted to ask if it's crazy that iam thinking of potentially having the hull repaired (maybe overplated) if I can get a good price? This is an area out of my expetease and iam worried about all the talk of money pits lol .All the brokers I've spoke to tell me to up my budget at get one that's already in the water lol so do people not repair boats them selves? Any advice would be great. 

Darren

[Richard10002]

People do repair boats but overplating is such a big job, has to be done right, and can very easily be done wrong - with you completely unaware until you experience the consequences some years later.

The brokers you are speaking to are probably giving you good advice - If you are paying someone to do the job, (rather than you buying some steel sheets and your Dad welding them on), my perception is that it costs several thousands of pounds. If you actually have this money to spend, you could double your budget and get something that floats fine, and has a reasonable amount of hull metal left.

 

[Darrenroberts]

Ok thanks for the advice, should I totaly avoid boats where hull repairs are needed? 

[Murflynn]

if the hull repairs are required as the result of corrosion and loss of steel thickness, I would say - YES, avoid.

[rusty69]

I have no experience of welding etc,but would think a lot will have to do with how you estimate what  hull repairs are required and at what cost. If you underestimate this, presumably you will still be paying for the hardstanding whilst the work is done. It would also depend on what you pay for the boat in the first place.

Anything inside the boat would be within the skills of a competant DIYer imo.

[Darrenroberts]

Thanks guys I'll look at some alternative options 

[Richard10002]

From what you have said, you can probably fit the interior of a boat out standing on your head with your eyes closed, but you dont really have the skills to sort a hull out - so I would be looking for a boat which is a total shed inside, but with a great hull and engine. The total shed bit means it will need to be cheap or no-one will buy it.

[Rickent]

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

From what you have said, you can probably fit the interior of a boat out standing on your head with your eyes closed, but you dont really have the skills to sort a hull out - so I would be looking for a boat which is a total shed inside, but with a great hull and engine. The total shed bit means it will need to be cheap or no-one will buy it.

Some good advice there, the op should take this on board.

[Bewildered]

With skills as a cabinet maker perhaps you should get a sound boat at the top end of your budget (maybe even a bit over), refit it out and sell it in London for a rediculous mark up then buy one for yourself with the profit.

what makes a good impression for most people is a really well done fit out, they see a good interior and look no further. Obviously a reasonably good exterior paint job helps.

[David Mack]

Take a look at www.kedianengineering.co.uk to see what a forum member charges for overplating.

[Neil2]

 A boat with a sound hull/engine but a tired interior I suspect will be outside your budget.  I think you are looking at something that needs work on the hull but if you can find one with just the baseplate needing attention I think it's doable.  Overplating the bottom of a narrowboat is relatively straightforward/cheap fix, sorting out the hulls sides much less so.  

You need to get a good opinion on the state of the hull of the boat in question.  Mike Boulton (Blue Star Surveys) is a good surveyor operating in your part of the world.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

if you refit a boat do it slowly a bit at a time do not strip it out but use it and decide what to replace. Your dad can puddle weld pits and also use lead to fill pits. if you prep the steel and cut holes so he can weld new plates then his skill will give you a good hull, hard and dirty work but economical to do.

 

[dmr]

I appreciate you are on a tight budget, and that you will get loads of personal satisfaction from renovating an an boat (my heart is with you) but do be aware that if you take a 30 year old overplated boat, no matter how much money, emotion and skill you spend on the interior it will still be an old overplated boat and worth no more than an old overplated boat (except maybe in London). If you start with a brand new shell and fit that out to the same standard  (a bit less effort as less cleaning and preparation required) you will end up with a valuable brand new boat. Lots of people do what you plan but cut your cloth carefully and don't spend more on the fit out than the boat will ultimately be worth.

..................Dave

[MtB]

6 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

From what you have said, you can probably fit the interior of a boat out standing on your head with your eyes closed, but you dont really have the skills to sort a hull out - so I would be looking for a boat which is a total shed inside, but with a great hull and engine. The total shed bit means it will need to be cheap or no-one will buy it.

 

Ahem.... the world and his dog has been looking for this mythical boat since the dawn of time.

Have a look at the dozens of previous threads by people also wanting to 'do up' a boat and seeking advice on how to find a boat with a good hull and engine but carp interior. There is no such thing. Boaters who look after the hull and engine also look after the interior, and vice versa.

[Neil2]

Ironically it's more likely you will find a boat with a refinished interior with a knackered hull.  

I maintain the vast majority of boat owners, especially of older boats, have no idea what state their hull is in and in particular the baseplate.  Folk will spend thousands on a refit, cabin paint etc without first establishing the quality of the steelwork below the waterline.

Having said that I'm sure there is an old Harborough or Springer or something  languishing on the hard in a boatyard somewhere that has a sound hull and the owner will let go for next to nothing because they started a refit without realising how much they were taking on... But you could wear out a lot of shoe leather finding it or maybe get Harrison Ford on the case. 

 

[MtB]

55 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Ironically it's more likely you will find a boat with a refinished interior with a knackered hull.  

I maintain the vast majority of boat owners, especially of older boats, have no idea what state their hull is in and in particular the baseplate.  Folk will spend thousands on a refit, cabin paint etc without first establishing the quality of the steelwork below the waterline.

Having said that I'm sure there is an old Harborough or Springer or something  languishing on the hard in a boatyard somewhere that has a sound hull and the owner will let go for next to nothing because they started a refit without realising how much they were taking on... But you could wear out a lot of shoe leather finding it or maybe get Harrison Ford on the case. 

 

 

True.

What usually happens is no-one wants it because once they think about it properly they realise that the cost of the refit is higher than the price of another boat already done, by some other dreamer.

[magictime]

Sorry, but £6k just isn't going to buy you a 45-50ft narrowboat with a sound hull and engine. It might buy you something reasonably solid in the 20-25ft range (we paid £6.5k on Ebay for a 24-foot steel boat with a sound hull and (outboard) engine but a tired interior), and such smaller boats tend to be pretty well-planned and might offer more than you think in terms of liveable space. But such boats routinely sell for more like £8k.

Plus even if you have all the necessary skills (not just woodworking, but plumbing, marine electrics etc.), there's the cost of materials and equipment to think about. If somebody gave you your dream boat free of charge tomorrow - sound hull and engine but in need of a total refit - I seriously doubt that £6k would cover the cost of everything you'd then need to do the job: insulation, wood, flooring, soft furnishings, bathroom fittings, kitchen appliances, inverter, stove, batteries, water pumps, pipes etc.

Then there's the 'opportunity cost' of spending hundreds of hours doing unpaid work for yourself that you could be spending doing paid work for other people. (Or to put it another way: if you have all that time spare and are happy to spend it working, why not spend it doing, I dunno, £10k-£20k of paid work and buy a better boat?)

...or you could just buy a little £6k GRP cruiser and be out enjoying some cruising tomorrow? It all depends what you want the boat for, I guess.

[Neil2]

Getting slightly off the point now, but I suspect very few folk who have fitted out their own boat have only done it once.   What I mean is if/when you complete your first boat the temptation to do it again incorporating all the things you learned must be irresistible.  How many boats is Graham Booth on now?

I suppose the point I'm making is you may go to a lot of trouble/expense and still not be happy with the final result.  

Self fit outs make sense for experienced boaters who can only get exactly what they want by doing it themselves, but then again experience tells you not to attempt such a time consuming exercise in the first place..

[Jess--]

I think if everyone is honest the short answer is "Yes you can restore a narrow boat" but it will probably never be worth what you have put into it.

a possible example of what I mean is here

[BWM]

If the hull and fitout are both tired and in need of repair, there is a good chance that the engine, pumps, electrics, etc won't be far behind. Unlikely at £6,000 but you might find an unfinished project based on a newer hull a better bet.