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Move my engine by boat ?


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I have a Lister JP3 bare engine block in Derby, destined for my boat in Braunston, for the rebuild of a frost cracked engine i have, would any owners of working boats or boats with the capacity to load 150 kg of cast iron that are planning on boating south be interested in moving it by water ?

It could be picked up from Langley Mill boat yard. I will pay you my pallet courier cost £60 , and no time limit, as i wont need it for a long while. 

 

Any takers for this little project ?

  • Greenie 1
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It is an interesting thought I hope you get someone to help.

As an aside I wonder where you would place such a concentrated heavy weight in the hull of a working boat. Most boats were trimmed by the distribution of a bulk cargo across and along the length of the boats hold. would you put it at the back near the cabin or in the middle or somewhere else?

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11 minutes ago, churchward said:

It is an interesting thought I hope you get someone to help.

As an aside I wonder where you would place such a concentrated heavy weight in the hull of a working boat. Most boats were trimmed by the distribution of a bulk cargo across and along the length of the boats hold. would you put it at the back near the cabin or in the middle or somewhere else?

Depends what you want to achieve.  Max draft: weight near the engine ole.  Min draft: weight forward of the mast.   Moderate draft but bows fodown a bit: weoght back of the mast or in the dStern middle.

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2 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Depends what you want to achieve.  Max draft: weight near the engine ole.  Min draft: weight forward of the mast.   Moderate draft but bows fodown a bit: weoght back of the mast or in the dStern middle.

Won't where you put it also effect how the boat steers?

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9 minutes ago, churchward said:

As an aside I wonder where you would place such a concentrated heavy weight in the hull of a working boat. Most boats were trimmed by the distribution of a bulk cargo across and along the length of the boats hold. would you put it at the back near the cabin or in the middle or somewhere else?

150kg placed in the hold of an full length unconverted working narrow boat would be just about un-noticeable as far as weight is concerned, and it could be placed anywhere. If in the back end it could be liable to flood damage if it rained as all of the rainwater runs back to the engine room bulkhead. If all the way into the fore end it could pull the counter too far out of the water and have a negative effect on handling.

Personally I would place it in the back end middle (in the section between the stands), and my only concern would be it falling over :captain:

 

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150 Kilos is 6 X 25 Kilo bags of coal to get things into perspective.

If you were bothered about the draft put it just a little forward of the centre or if you have ballast barrels empty one of them and put the block at the back of the hold

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Hmmmm

Python will be at Long Eaton in May and travelling on to Braunston. A trip up The Erewash might be a possibility but we have to loiter between times and will be in Coventry for a short time. I need to check dates 

I presume there would be cranes at both ends and the engine will be strapped to a palette in such a way that it can't fall over? My concern would be that somebody might take a shine to a large lump of scrap metal in an open hold of a boat. I know it would take some getting out but if they have a some chain and......

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9 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

150kg placed in the hold of an full length unconverted working narrow boat would be just about un-noticeable as far as weight is concerned, and it could be placed anywhere. If in the back end it could be liable to flood damage if it rained as all of the rainwater runs back to the engine room bulkhead. If all the way into the fore end it could pull the counter too far out of the water and have a negative effect on handling.

Personally I would place it in the back end middle (in the section between the stands), and my only concern would be it falling over :captain:

 

Yes I suppose 150Kg is not that much. Which gets me thinking that sounds awfully light for an engine. I just looked it up and depending on what type of JP3 it is an engine weighs over 1100Kgs.  Did the OP get the weight wrong and if it is 1100Kg does that make a difference of where you put it?

Actually I have just read the OP and it says a spare engine block so not a whole engine but how can an egine block be not much more than 10% of the whole engine weight?

Edited by churchward
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2 minutes ago, churchward said:

Yes I suppose 150Kg is not that much. Which gets me thinking that sounds awfully light for an engine. I just looked it up and depending on what type of JP3 it is an engine weighs over 1100Kgs.  Did the OP get the weight wrong and if it is 1100Kg does that make a difference of where you put it?

Still back end middle for me :captain:

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2 minutes ago, churchward said:

Yes I suppose 150Kg is not that much. Which gets me thinking that sounds awfully light for an engine. I just looked it up and depending on what type of JP3 it is an engine weighs over 1100Kgs.  Did the OP get the weight wrong and if it is 1100Kg does that make a difference of where you put it?

The OP says it is a bare engine block. Is the weight you mention for a complete engine?

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4 minutes ago, barry adams said:

150 Kilos is 6 X 25 Kilo bags of coal to get things into perspective.

If you were bothered about the draft put it just a little forward of the centre or if you have ballast barrels empty one of them and put the block at the back of the hold

It would take a brave man to load a good engine block in the back end as that section is too liable to flooding, but then it will not be me making the delivery :captain:

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Just now, cheshire~rose said:

The OP says it is a bare engine block. Is the weight you mention for a complete engine?

Yes it was and  I just reread the OP but a cast iron engine block is usually a lot more than 10% of the whole engine. I know the flywheel will be heavy but it does not sound right that it and the head and ancillaries make up to the 1100kg

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Churchward I think you may well be right about the weight being a bit light.

Ballast barrels, we use the blue plastic ones 44 gallons capacity therefore 44 X 10 = 440 ibs per barrel.

5 barrels in the back of the hold gets the counter almost flat on 5 X 440 = 2220 lbs.  That works out to just over a metric Tonne

1 minute ago, pete harrison said:

It would take a brave man to load a good engine block in the back end as that section is too liable to flooding, but then it will not be me making the delivery :captain:

Dont know where you been boating Pete but you need an awfull lot of rain to get the shuts and a pallet under water.

 

I did take a 5 cylinder ( not sure of the make it was a long time ago ) one for a ride one year it was in storage in the hold and it had a holiday. That was just sitting nicely just towards the back of the middle of the hold.

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9 minutes ago, billh said:

Here's a link to an engine going by  wooden boat. Well over 3 tons  in, as Pete says,back of middle. No problem:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/39245032@N08/6929517171/in/photostream/

Bill

Interesting photo. I have no doubt a working boat can take the weight be it 150kg or 1100kg or more but I was just thinking if it was the only thing in the hold where would you put it to balance the boat best and not adversely effect the steering.

Back of middle sounds right and makes sense given where the boat may pivot I guess but I don't really have any experience of working boats so it was an interesting thought for me where was best.

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1 minute ago, barry adams said:

Dont know where you been boating Pete but you need an awfull lot of rain to get the shuts and a pallet under water.

I know my boating was done a long time ago but I have always been amazed at how little rain is needed to flood the shuts in the back end of a motor. Perhaps it depends on how deep the shuts are, but I thought they are all about the same and run level with the kelson. Either way I am sticking with back end middle :captain: 

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I have a figure of 250kg in my head for the JP3 bare block weight. We looked it up somewhere when we were getting a quote to repair our cracked one a few years back, but I forget where we found the number.

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12 minutes ago, Muddy Ditch Rich said:

Like I mentioned this is a totally bare crankcase, Like this one but unpainted. I can only estimate the weight. It needs no carefully handling, or to remain upright. Its a big lump that can travel as slow as it wants, I thought it would be ideal for water transport.

 

 

JP251.jpg

Its a good idea and I hope you will find someone to help.

I do think your estimate is on the light side and considering that is cast iron I think you are looking at twice or even 3 times your estimate around 300-400kg mark. Not a problem for a working boat to carry though.

 

Edited by churchward
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17 minutes ago, Giant said:

I have a figure of 250kg in my head for the JP3 bare block weight. We looked it up somewhere when we were getting a quote to repair our cracked one a few years back, but I forget where we found the number.

Could well be, the engine I have still has the crankshaft and flywheel on it so I can only guess what the crankcase weighs. 

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I have looked at our plan for Python this summer and we do have a couple of days spare between slipping at Sheet Stores and arriving in Coventry in June so purely on the basis of available time it appears feasible.

What I can't say is whether any of our volunteers fancy a detour to see The Erewash for a couple of days and whether our volunteers are happy to share their sleeping quarters with a large lump of cast iron for a few weeks. (the one who stubs his toe on that when he gets up for a pee in the middle of the night will curse!) I am also no expert on how the weight might affect her handling (although I have taken on board the comments from those who have experience here.

We have a crew meeting this week and I will put it to the team and see what they think.

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I don't know he actual weight of a bare JP3,  and I can see if I look at various sources a whole range of weights are quoted, but I suspect many include the gearbox.

I think looking at numbers like 1,970 lb on the Realdiesels site, it is probably well under a ton for the engine alone.  The flywheels are phenomenally heavy, even the crank is pretty heavy, so I think it is probably reasonable to estimate around a quarter of a ton for the block.

So about the same as 10 bags of coal, or just one of those filled blue barrels often added as ballast.  In a full length boat that really will make very little difference, and as they load about a ton an inch, putting it somewhere mid-hold will only bring it down a fairly imperceptible 1/4" or so.

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My limited experience of the effects of load distribution on the coal boats is enough to tell me that Alan's right, a weight of under a ton sitting in the hold of a working boat is no big deal. If loaded too far forwards on an otherwise unladen boat it might raise the prop higher than is ideal, but anywhere around the back/middle of the hold should be OK. When Nuneaton is unladen, we carry water in barrels at the back of the hold as ballast for this reason. As Barry says, if this chunk of engine is on a pallet on top of the shuts it shouldn't get flooded unless something is seriously wrong with the boat. A bilge pump and/or covers would help prevent any problem.

The main obstacle to the OP's plan may be to find a working boat owner who happens to be going up the Erewash.

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