Jump to content

Lllangollen Canal article, 1968


Philip

Featured Posts

I've found this cutting of a newspaper article about the Llangollen Canal on ebay, dating from 1968. The picture I'm interested is in the top left, showing Hurleston top lock. I can make out a gate paddle on the top gate, but none of the locks on the Llangollen have them now. Does anyone remember gate paddles on the Llangollen Canal into the 70s or 80s, or when they were removed?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LLANGOLLEN-CANAL-FRONCYSYLLTE-VILLAGE-HURLESTON-LOCKS-ETC-2pp-PHOTO-ARTICLE-1968-/221843495436?hash=item33a6e71a0c:g:WVQAAOSwLVZVv56g

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The author Charles Hadfield  would that be the same as the author of the historical book series?

I can certainly remember gate paddles on the top lock at Badderley in the 60's  I would guess removal happened when gate making at Ellesmere  was  moved to Northwich  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ogwr said:

The author Charles Hadfield  would that be the same as the author of the historical book series?

I can certainly remember gate paddles on the top lock at Badderley in the 60's  I would guess removal happened when gate making at Ellesmere  was  moved to Northwich  

Don't know for sure but seems like it, it's the right era.

Do you remember any of the other locks on the Llangollen having them around that time?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hello 

Yes, it was THE Charles Hadfield - I wrote an account of his work in Canal Man and More, and this trip was taken while he was a member of the first British Waterways Board, between 1963 and 1966, so a little before the date in the article!

I visited the canal to Llangollen many times in this period, and seem to recall gate paddles at the locks at Swanley, Baddiley and Hurleston, but it was over 50 years ago! I do recall that the ground paddles were somewhat eccentric and varied in style.

Joseph    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our last trip to Llangollen during our hotel boating was 1971 summer season I'm pretty sure the gate paddles were still in place up to that trip no problems in the bottom Huelston lock but on that trip had to flush & "Tirfor"  to get back onto the Shroppie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Joseph said:

Hello 

Yes, it was THE Charles Hadfield - I wrote an account of his work in Canal Man and More, and this trip was taken while he was a member of the first British Waterways Board, between 1963 and 1966, so a little before the date in the article!

I visited the canal to Llangollen many times in this period, and seem to recall gate paddles at the locks at Swanley, Baddiley and Hurleston, but it was over 50 years ago! I do recall that the ground paddles were somewhat eccentric and varied in style.

Joseph    

Thanks, you don't happen to remember any of the locks further up by any chance?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Pluto said:

These are a couple of Geoff Wheat's photos showing locks on the Llangollen branch. The first is from 1964, the second from 1967. Both show top gate paddles.

large.58c7b09f86b0f_1964SUCGeoffWheat.jp

large.58c7b0cfaca55_1969QuoisleyLockWate

The top one looks like Frankton top lock and the bottom one only shows the bottom gates of Quoisley lock. Some of the locks on the Montgomery still have gate paddles, as do most of the Shroppie locks. Wonder why they were all removed on the Llangollen? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Wonder why they were all removed on the Llangollen? 

Probably because of the risk of sinking. Up until the late 80's,  early 90's, top gate paddles were unbaffled, so when opened before the water level had risen to cover them, would shoot a torrent of water straight into the well deck of the boat locking up.  If the said boat had its cabin doors open as well...

 

"Helpful" boaters in a hurry to lock you through often didn't realise you should wait until the water level had risen above the paddle opening before operating gate paddles. 

Not sure why they don't reinstate them now that they can be tamed by a baffle to diffuse the column of water though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 1964 one seems to show a small tree growing out of the chamber, but also a ground paddle that is up....very puzzling. I was there when BW removed the top gate, but whether this was 1965 (when I first visited) or later, I don't recall. 

Sorry, don't recall gate paddles above Baddiley, but they might have been there!

Joseph 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never been up the Llangollen branch, but what I see in the images and those depicted in the newspaper link, is a top gate paddle with a vertical board that deflects water to the side - as per the other Shroppie locks. So sinking from a direct flow of water should not have been possible. I suspect cost might be the deciding factor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a drawing of a SUC top gate from the collection in Shropshire Archive, which I think came from Ellesmere yard. Unfortunately it is undated, but it does show the type of paddle gear used on top gates by the SUC.

.large.58c9035ef38c3_5465130.jpg.bfea810c

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the design is still very similar today as it was back then, except for either the removal of the gate paddle or an ugly modern thing in its place. It's only a partial baffle, so on deep locks I guess there's a chance the surge could still reach the boat.

Is it possible that upon nationalisation branches like the Llangollen were deemed as low priority for maintenance and so luxury items such as gate paddles weren't retained?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, cuthound said:

Probably because of the risk of sinking. Up until the late 80's,  early 90's, top gate paddles were unbaffled, so when opened before the water level had risen to cover them, would shoot a torrent of water straight into the well deck of the boat locking up.  If the said boat had its cabin doors open as well...

 

"Helpful" boaters in a hurry to lock you through often didn't realise you should wait until the water level had risen above the paddle opening before operating gate paddles. 

Not sure why they don't reinstate them now that they can be tamed by a baffle to diffuse the column of water though. 

I remember clearly locking uphill on the Wigan flight and nearly drowning the boat :wacko: The front doors WHERE open at the time and swmbo mistakenly opened the gate paddles whilst we were in the bottom of the lock...........not been on the wigan flight for 17 years or so is this still possible?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I remember clearly locking uphill on the Wigan flight and nearly drowning the boat :wacko: The front doors WHERE open at the time and swmbo mistakenly opened the gate paddles whilst we were in the bottom of the lock...........not been on the wigan flight for 17 years or so is this still possible?

I haven't seen an unbaffled top gate paddle since probably 1992. Are there any left on the system? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, cuthound said:

I haven't seen an unbaffled top gate paddle since probably 1992. Are there any left on the system? 

Dunno until this thread I hadnt given it any thought. Just looked in our boating diary and it was 1990 when we first did Wigan and had the near mishap.  I suppose stuff changes all the time and in the end we dont realy notice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Dunno until this thread I hadnt given it any thought. Just looked in our boating diary and it was 1990 when we first did Wigan and had the near mishap.  I suppose stuff changes all the time and in the end we dont realy notice.

My guess is that unbaffled top gate paddles were not much of a risk when the working boats were prevalent, and became increasingly risky as more and more hire and leisure boats with untrained crew took to the system, forcing BW to remove them over a period of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, cuthound said:

My guess is that unbaffled top gate paddles were not much of a risk when the working boats were prevalent, and became increasingly risky as more and more hire and leisure boats with untrained crew took to the system, forcing BW to remove them over a period of time.

Yes I think you are probably right. I am the first to admit that in my early days of narrowboating we made some humungous mistakes and luckily survived them all :wacko: That though is what I sometimes find annoying when some boaters slag off other boaters for doing what they did when they were new such as some hirers although I have met quite a few hirers with much more narrowboat experience than boat owners.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes I think you are probably right. I am the first to admit that in my early days of narrowboating we made some humungous mistakes and luckily survived them all :wacko: That though is what I sometimes find annoying when some boaters slag off other boaters for doing what they did when they were new such as some hirers although I have met quite a few hirers with much more narrowboat experience than boat owners.

Completely agree, have a green heart. Some people have short memories and are very intolerant of newbies, be they boators or motorists.

I too have made some dangerous mistakes,  especially in the early years but luckily got away with it and more importantly I learned from them. 

I have learned a lot from watching other boaters, good and bad ;)

Edited by cuthound
Spillung
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We had trips down the Wigan flight each year from '97-99 and I'm sure the gate paddles were still unbaffled in 1999. I think they were fitted on all LL locks (barring a couple on the Skem side of Wigan) either winter 1999-2000 or the following year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

We had trips down the Wigan flight each year from '97-99 and I'm sure the gate paddles were still unbaffled in 1999. I think they were fitted on all LL locks (barring a couple on the Skem side of Wigan) either winter 1999-2000 or the following year.

I last went up there summer of 2000 and I cant remember either way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We went up Wigan in '88, and someone cracked open a gate paddle just a little, but enough to send a substantial amount of water that curved up in an arc to land bang into our well deck. The front doors were shut, but the cat-flap let some in! They tried to close the paddle but would it hell! A year later we found a Newt tucked away under the bottom boards which we reckoned came from Wigan!

I don't recall having trouble with Shroppie gate paddles. From memory when opened the water diverted left and right enough to pass either side of the bows. Not actually drawn in this shot.

And the other with a leaky cill - and nothing drawn!.

YARMOUTH fore end Gen 157.jpg

YARMOUTH wash day Gen 150.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

I haven't seen an unbaffled top gate paddle since probably 1992. Are there any left on the system? 

I think the widespread baffling of top gate paddles came following the sinking of the Drum Major in 1998.

There are still (or were fairly recently) unbaffled top gate paddles on the River Wey.

Edited by David Mack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When Kegworth Deep was remodelled in the early nineties (?) I seem to remember some hasty addition of baffles after it was realised the gate paddles were about 6 feet higher than the roof of a boat when ascending.

I might have been exaggerating a tad there, I simply can't be trusted you know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.