Something To Cause A Bit Of Debate?

[matty40s]

Look, can you stop coming up with reasoned debate, sensible suggestions and other case scenarios which are similar with no complaints, Panda will not have any of this.

Just sign the bloody petition will you.......

Yes , all of you, or go and stand on the norty step.

Edited February 27, 2017 by matty40s

[Guest]

Is that just me or everyone ..................... 

[mrsmelly]

8 minutes ago, Meanderingviking said:

Is that just me or everyone ..................... 

He means everyone bless him 

[rasputin]

We home educated our son. I see no reason why boaters can't.

[MtB]

I'm curious about how Panda has been educating her children until now.

[dor]

Whenever this sort of topic come up I wonder what would happen if I rocked up in a big van and parked in the middle of Nantwich, say on a Council car park, and said I should have a right to stop there, for whatever reason I thought up today.

I doubt I would be there for more than a day or two, so why is a boat on a canal so different, with it apparently taking C&RT years to do something about continuous moorers?

[mrsmelly]

10 hours ago, rasputin said:

We home educated our son. I see no reason why boaters can't.

On the matter of home education I dont think that has anything to do with Pandas quest that is merely bshit sidelining. As for actualy home educating children I personaly would never have home educated any of my children as I believe the biggest and most important part of education is for kids to mix and learn how to integrate with their peers, this is the reason I am also dead set against single sex schools, we dont live in a single sex society so educating in such a manner is totaly alien to reality.

[JJPHG]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

On the matter of home education I dont think that has anything to do with Pandas quest that is merely bshit sidelining. As for actualy home educating children I personaly would never have home educated any of my children as I believe the biggest and most important part of education is for kids to mix and learn how to integrate with their peers, this is the reason I am also dead set against single sex schools, we dont live in a single sex society so educating in such a manner is totaly alien to reality.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment and certainly wouldn't home educate either of my 2 boys there is a place for it - probably not in the UK, but certainly here in Australia where, lets face it, some of the remote cattle stations (which have children on them) are as big as Scotland and state schooling is just not an option.

However, neither do we live in a single age group society and school is the only environment where we do this - it doesn't happen in the workplace.  There is an argument therefore that  age grouping in education is detrimental to social and academic development with pupils always dragged to the average performance.  The older I get and having spent a good few years in the education system both here and in the UK I am more and more convinced that there is a significant disconnect between the education system and employment, particularly in the more innovative disciplines which require questioning and challenging of the accepted norm - something that is definitely discouraged at school.

Grumpy old man rant at modern society over.

[alan_fincher]

3 hours ago, dor said:

Whenever this sort of topic come up I wonder what would happen if I rocked up in a big van and parked in the middle of Nantwich, say on a Council car park, and said I should have a right to stop there, for whatever reason I thought up today.

I doubt I would be there for more than a day or two, so why is a boat on a canal so different, with it apparently taking C&RT years to do something about continuous moorers?

[Firmly in Devil's advocate mode]

If you had a situation that had going on for a great number of years where you had successfully lived in your big van, say by shuffling it around various car parks in Nantwich, and someone employed by the council had told you off the record that as long as you did this there wouldn't be a problem, you might be unhappy if someone else then took over those car parks, and quickly evicted you.

I actually have very little sympathy for the way that many of those involved with NBTA go about putting forward their cause, (particularly where they rely on untruths and half truths), but I have some sympathy for people who have largely been living "under the radar" because many people in BW actually condoned it, and who built a life-style around it, but now have to contend with a very different situation.

Take another hypothetical example.  CRT have now resulted in many of those who were "continuously cruising" but not actually moving far, taking up CRT linear "waterside" moorings, with no residential status.  CRT are currently very happy to let that happen, because it appears to hrlp solve the "bridge hopper" problem in each such case, and also nets them revenue on moorings they often struggle to let.  But is it actually any more within the spirit of various laws than the CC-ers who were not moving very far?  If there were now a move to crack down on people who were full time residential on leisure moorings, would it be fare to simply say "it's their own fault, they knew when they took them they were breaking the rules".

A tricky subject, I think, and I'm not sure simple analogies like yours are that relevant.

[pearlygeoff]

8 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

9 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Take another hypothetical example.  CRT have now resulted in many of those who were "continuously cruising" but not actually moving far, taking up CRT linear "waterside" moorings, with no residential status.  CRT are currently very happy to let that happen, because it appears to hrlp solve the "bridge hopper" problem in each such case, and also nets them revenue on moorings they often struggle to let.  But is it actually any more within the spirit of various laws than the CC-ers who were not moving very far?  If there were now a move to crack down on people who were full time residential on leisure moorings, would it be fare to simply say "it's their own fault, they knew when they took them they were breaking the rules".

A tricky subject, I think, and I'm not sure simple analogies like yours are that relevant.

That's not hypothetical. That's what happened.

That was part of my complaint from 2007 onwards. 

 

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, dor said:

Whenever this sort of topic come up I wonder what would happen if I rocked up in a big van and parked in the middle of Nantwich, say on a Council car park, and said I should have a right to stop there, for whatever reason I thought up today.

I doubt I would be there for more than a day or two, so why is a boat on a canal so different, with it apparently taking C&RT years to do something about continuous moorers?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/travellers-finally-quit-shenley-academy-12662030

[Martin Megson]

I would have more sympathy if the article didn't distort the facts.  I noticed on the news last night that caravan based travellers moving into a school car park were very quickly moved on with no regard for their children's education.

Surely the solution is for schools to provide saniatary facilities and allow travellers to stay in the car park until their children reached adulthood.  Schools could also covert the playing fields into large ponds which CC'er could cruise around in while their children attend school.  

This has the twofold advantage of enabling these children to get an education and freeing up popular moorings for genuine CC'ers and leisure boaters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39105225

[john6767]

22 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

Oh dear, what a shame:

The policy means that children who live on boats can end up having to travel up to 20 miles to school which is not always possible. If the parents are unable to travel that far, they risk losing their home.

I can think of plenty of areas around here where children may travel that distance, and sometimes more, to get to school. Perhaps Panda would like to get all the rural village schools reopened.

Our son travelled that sort of distance to secondary school, yes it was ours/his choice of school, but it is not that hard.

[rasputin]

13 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

On the matter of home education I dont think that has anything to do with Pandas quest that is merely bshit sidelining. As for actualy home educating children I personaly would never have home educated any of my children as I believe the biggest and most important part of education is for kids to mix and learn how to integrate with their peers, this is the reason I am also dead set against single sex schools, we dont live in a single sex society so educating in such a manner is totaly alien to reality.

The sort of mixing he got from school was all negative I'm afraid, but we did spend half our time "educating", and the other half socializing.

Great fun as this entailed visiting festivals from may to september for 7 years

I think he is now a well rounded adult working in the merchant navy

[Neil2]

On 2/26/2017 at 12:03, sailor0500 said:

I have lived on my yachts for a large part of my life. Many yachting families have children and cruise the world happily educating their own small children or using correspondence courses when their children get older. This seems to work very well. Lets face it these people are just using their kids as an excuse not to move.

A few years ago we met an Australian couple who had moved to the UK to spend two years on the canals with their young son and daughter.  They said it was a deliberate decision made to enhance their childrens' education - couldn't disagree with that, what stories those kids will have to tell their own children.  Living on a boat then trying to find a way of sending your kids to school seems like a wasted opportunity to me.        

Who was it said all you really need to do is teach children to read, the rest is brainwashing.  I reckon I've forgotten 90% of everything I was taught at secondary school.  

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Neil2 said:

 Living on a boat then trying to find a way of sending your kids to school seems like a wasted opportunity to me.       

This is missing the point. Panda et al are always on the lookout for new ways of avoiding moving. This is just the latest angle on that. The children are just being manipulated/used as a tool for furthering the goals of the adults. I don't think Panda even has any children of skool age.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Neil2 said:

   Who was it said all you really need to do is teach children to read, the rest is brainwashing.

They were wrong in my view. The rest is actually childminding to allow the adults to go out and earn a living.

[dmr]

On 28/02/2017 at 09:15, mrsmelly said:

On the matter of home education I dont think that has anything to do with Pandas quest that is merely bshit sidelining. As for actualy home educating children I personaly would never have home educated any of my children as I believe the biggest and most important part of education is for kids to mix and learn how to integrate with their peers, this is the reason I am also dead set against single sex schools, we dont live in a single sex society so educating in such a manner is totaly alien to reality.

I also see home education as having potential for creating children with lacking social skills, but my daughter who teaches (in a fairly good school) is a big advocate of home education, so I really have to accept that its a good thing, she knows more than me.

.................Dave

[KevMc]

33 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

They were wrong in my view. The rest is actually childminding to allow the adults to go out and earn a living.

In my view it's intended to turn out nice little automatons to service the state (as well as baby sitting)

[dmr]

On 28/02/2017 at 08:32, dor said:

Whenever this sort of topic come up I wonder what would happen if I rocked up in a big van and parked in the middle of Nantwich, say on a Council car park, and said I should have a right to stop there, for whatever reason I thought up today.

I doubt I would be there for more than a day or two, so why is a boat on a canal so different, with it apparently taking C&RT years to do something about continuous moorers?

Why Nantwich? Why not park your van on the playing field at Eton and get a really good education for you kids. I note that those involved in this issue choose to moor their boats in Bradford on Avon rather than Reading, but as I have said before, if I had moved to the cut earlier I would be there doing exact;y the same.

..............Dave

[dogless]

From November to March each year, C&RT are quite happy for people NOT TO MOVE provided they cross their palms with silver.

If it's ok to identify areas to pay and moor in winter, why can't they do the same in term time for the very small number of people with school age kids.

There are solutions.

There is no will to look for them.

Rog

[MtB]

1 minute ago, dogless said:

From November to March each year, C&RT are quite happy for people NOT TO MOVE provided they cross their palms with silver.

If it's ok to identify areas to pay and moor in winter, why can't they do the same in term time for the very small number of people with school age kids.

There are solutions.

There is no will to look for them.

Rog

 

This is a very good point.

BUT....

I suspect the militant boaters demanding they are excepted from 'CCing rules' so their kids can go to skool, might be reluctant to pay for a mooring.

 

 

[dogless]

I suspect they will.

Cruise a restricted area during term, then cruise a wider area when schools out. C&RT get additional funds for an issue that exists free of charge at present.

The will to find solutions is what's missing.

Rog

[dmr]

49 minutes ago, dogless said:

From November to March each year, C&RT are quite happy for people NOT TO MOVE provided they cross their palms with silver.

If it's ok to identify areas to pay and moor in winter, why can't they do the same in term time for the very small number of people with school age kids.

There are solutions.

There is no will to look for them.

Rog

Two probs here, I believe a while ago CaRT (BW) said "if hypothetically we could build you a marina would you live in it?". The answer was of course no.

Second, you are suggesting something like a roving mooring permit and this got very close but was rejected. The recent "roaming winter mooring" was also abandoned after a year as some boaters talked of a legal challenge to it (probably some of the very same boaters here) as it is, as you say, setting aside the 14 day rule in exchange for a "bribe". CaRT must feel that its ok to do this on visitor moorings but not elsewhere, maybe based on historical precedent.. Putting long term residents on the visitor mooring at BoA would be very unpopular. Some, though not all, of the people concerned do actually like moving.

...............Dave

[dogless]

I hate marinas, and wouldn't moor in one if it was free either.

Visitor moorings could be excluded. Areas for mooring could be identified (mooring zones) that are away from homes etc as C&RT selected (like winter moorings).

But the point is, solutions can be found and worked out. Extra income can be raised at minimal cost (like winter moorings) and kids get to school. Everybody wins. Those who don't want to pay/participate can have the full force of enforcement on them, with no sympathy from anyone. Similarly those that won't sign up and cruise in non term time.

I know this isn't 'the' solution, but problems like this will only be resolved by compromise, cooperation, and a will to do so.

Rog

Edited March 1, 2017 by dogless