batteries. Batteries constantly dying even though on trickle charge - help!

[mross]

or flushes the loo??

[OliveOyl]

Thank you for your concern Cal and Alan, and to Wotever for clarifying.

 

The dangerous link-up is on my boat, which I will disconnect now.I do everything I can to ensure my son is safe.

 

 

The flat batteries and charger not working is on my other boat, which my sons spends some time on.

 

If anyone knows of a dependable/honest/knows what they are doing, boat electrician in the region of South Birmingham, please send me their contact details.

[Iain_S]

From the photo, it looks like the battery charger is connected using the crocodile clips it came with.

 

These can easily get nudged, possibly making a poor connection, and (worse!) a clip coming adrift can cause a shower of sparks or a fire in extreme cases. If it all worked before, a bad connection could be the cause of the failure.

 

edited to delete an answered question!

Edited February 22, 2017 by Iain_S

[cuthound]

He never washes, cooks, drinks tea...?

 

or flushes the loo??

Sounds like a typical teenage boy.

[ditchcrawler]

YOU NEED SOMEONE QUALIFIED TO CHECK OUT YOUR ELECTRICAL SYSTEM.

PLEASE follow this advice, I also think you may have an electrical system that may not be safe.

[OliveOyl]

Gosh, MROSS - flushing loo???? You must have a very posh boat!

 

We both have one of these delightful portaloo things.

 

 

WOTEVER - he doesn't drink hot drinks, certainly doesn't use water out of the tank for cooking (bottled water only) so apart from washing his hands after the loo, and an occasional shower - nope, not much need for water/elec other than what he uses for TV and xbox, He usually comes home for a shower/laundry/decent food lol.

[rusty69]

Gosh, MROSS - flushing loo???? You must have a very posh boat!

 

We both have one of these delightful portaloo things.

 

 

WOTEVER - he doesn't drink hot drinks, certainly doesn't use water out of the tank for cooking (bottled water only) so apart from washing his hands after the loo, and an occasional shower - nope, not much need for water/elec other than what he uses for TV and xbox, He usually comes home for a shower/laundry/decent food lol.

Shower pump!

[Grebe]

Fridge fitted?

[Tony Brooks]

Please can you give a better location but not exact of the boat in question, south of Birmingham covers a large area. I travel to my boat near Braunston and if its within half an hour of there by car and with car parking I will happily have a look for you and advise. I will not do any significant work. After the allegations made against a male forum member who tried to help a lady boater in similar circumstances I would rather you organised a chaperone if I am to look at it.

 

 

 

 

[nicknorman]

Right, this thread has become a bit confusing but also somewhat hysterical.

 

Regarding the lady's own boat, it is not incredibly dangerous to take a shore lead straight into the boat to run the kettle etc. It is a little dangerous if that lead is not plugged into a proper bollard or something else that has an RCD. If it is plugged into something that has a proper RCD then it is not really dangerous at all and all this screaming about "desist immediately" is just scaremongering. Of course it would be better if the boat had a proper mains system with integral RCD etc for long term use, but it is hardly like juggling with several bottles of nitro-glycerine. I would advise the lady to keep using it in the short term - no need to go without a cuppa tonight - but try to get a proper installation longer term. Provided that is, it is plugged into a shore RCD. As to stuff about "Oh the BSS!" and "Oh the insurance!", kindly point us to where it says in the BSS that draping a mains lead into the boat invalidates the BSS, and where in the lady's insurance policy terms and conditions it says ditto. Or retract.

 

Regarding son's boat have we yet seen a picture of the charger? I don't think we have, have we? Are the internal lights LED or incandescent?

 

And to answer the question "why do I need leisure batteries at all when I'm plugged into shore power" it is to run 12v appliances such as lighting, pumps etc. An appropriate charger can supply enough power in a day to run these things that are used occasionally, but not enough power to run those things directly. The battery acts as a sort of buffer, slowing charging up when the loads allow it, and discharging into the loads when a lot are switched on at once.

 

I am still not convinced it isn't a case of overcharging rather than undercharging.

Edited February 22, 2017 by nicknorman

[Iain_S]

 

It's a decent, 10A marine charger. Like I said, if anyone knows of a cheaper alternative...

 

Victron and datasheet

 

 

or Mastervolt, available for £165 or so from Cactus.

 

Not quite as many bells and whistles, but would do the job.

 

Bit more googling reveals that the 10A Pro Charge Ultra is available at a more reasonable price (£178) from Marine Superstore.

[bizzard]

 

Please can you give a better location but not exact of the boat in question, south of Birmingham covers a large area. I travel to my boat near Braunston and if its within half an hour of there by car and with car parking I will happily have a look for you and advise. I will not do any significant work. After the allegations made against a male forum member who tried to help a lady boater in similar circumstances I would rather you organised a chaperone if I am to look at it.

 

 

 

 

 

I dare say Mrs Oyl would expect you to turn up smoking a pipe and squeezing a tin of spinach.

[rusty69]

Right, this thread has become a bit confusing but also somewhat hysterical.

 

Regarding the lady's own boat, it is not incredibly dangerous to take a shore lead straight into the boat to run the kettle etc. It is a little dangerous if that lead is not plugged into a proper bollard or something else that has an RCD. If it is plugged into something that has a proper RCD then it is not really dangerous at all and all this screaming about "desist immediately" is just scaremongering. Of course it would be better if the boat had a proper mains system with integral RCD etc for long term use, but it is hardly like juggling with several bottles of nitro-glycerine. I would advise the lady to keep using it in the short term - no need to go without a cuppa tonight - but try to get a proper installation longer term. Provided that is, it is plugged into a shore RCD. As to stuff about "Oh the BSS!" and "Oh the insurance!", kindly point us to where it says in the BSS that draping a mains lead into the boat invalidates the BSS, and where in the lady's insurance policy terms and conditions it says ditto. Or retract.

 

Regarding son's boat have we yet seen a picture of the charger? I don't think we have, have we? Are the internal lights LED or incandescent?

 

And to answer the question "why do I need leisure batteries at all when I'm plugged into shore power" it is to run 12v appliances such as lighting, pumps etc. An appropriate charger can supply enough power in a day to run these things that are used occasionally, but not enough power to run those things directly. The battery acts as a sort of buffer, slowing charging up when the loads allow it, and discharging into the loads when a lot are switched on at once.

 

I am still not convinced it isn't a case of overcharging rather than undercharging.

Why would an appropriate charger not be able to achieve this, particularily if the loads are small?

[MtB]

YOU NEED SOMEONE QUALIFIED TO CHECK OUT YOUR ELECTRICAL SYSTEM.

 

 

Swerving slightly off topic, what qualification would you suggest that 'someone' holds, exactly? And once she finds that someone, how would Ms Oyl check they have the qualification they claim to hold?

 

 

(Speeling edit.)

Edited February 22, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[nicknorman]

Why would an appropriate charger not be able to achieve this, particularily if the loads are small?

 

If the loads are small, it might be able to - but then that means the charger is unnecessarily big and expensive if those are the only loads. I say "might" because a smart charger is expecting to be connected to a battery. Quite a few of these chargers, when first connected, go through various "desulphating" pulse charges etc which might damage appliances connected directly (not via a battery) and/or the way these loads look to the charger might cause it to abort it various startup phases. There is a fundamental difference between a mains 12v battery charger and a mains 12v power supply. It would be the latter that you would use if you wanted to power the appliances directly.

 

 

Swerving slightly off topic, what qualification would you suggest that 'someone' holds, exactly? And once she finds that someone, how would Ms Oyl check they have the qualification they claim to hold?

 

 

(Speeling edit.)

 

Exactly. She doesn't need someone "qualified" - whatever that means. She needs someone competent. Not in the slightest bit the same thing.

[MtB]

And I too haven't noticed a photo yet of the battery charger.

 

If it turns out to be like the one in the photo posted by Bizzard, I have one of those and I measured the charge current from mine with it set to 'High'. It was 3 Amps, falling to about 2 Amps as the tired battery to which it was attached, charged up.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[rusty69]

 

If the loads are small, it might be able to - but then that means the charger is unnecessarily big and expensive if those are the only loads. I say "might" because a smart charger is expecting to be connected to a battery. Quite a few of these chargers, when first connected, go through various "desulphating" pulse charges etc which might damage appliances connected directly (not via a battery) and/or the way these loads look to the charger might cause it to abort it various startup phases. There is a fundamental difference between a mains 12v battery charger and a mains 12v power supply. It would be the latter that you would use if you wanted to power the appliances directly.

 

 

Thanks for the explanation.

 

I have run 12V loads,with no batteries connected , but not from a smart charger, but a switch mode battery charger. If I recal, the manual suggests that loads can be run directly from it, but not recommended long term.

Edited February 22, 2017 by rusty69

[bizzard]

Does it look like this Olive.001.JPG

This is a 12a charger which I gained for nothing about 10 years ago. It has been trouble free, charges my single cheapo 110a battery perfectly, which is now 4 years old and still has about 80% capacity. One 70a alternator. When I'm away off shoreline I have a small 200w Switchmode inverter for occasional telly and Notebook. Do me washing in the sink with a rubbing board, rinse in the river. All LED lights, candles, gas fridge, water heater and cooker. Water pump mainly for tea making and damping a cloth for wiping the sleep from my pet cats eyes. I don't wash much, ''cat tries to teach me'' Keep washing worries me, I don't want my natural oils all washed away. Shower drain pump needs more exercise.

Edited February 22, 2017 by bizzard

[Tony Brooks]

 

Exactly. She doesn't need someone "qualified" - whatever that means. She needs someone competent. Not in the slightest bit the same thing.

 

Which is why I offered to take a look if the boat is close enough. At the very least I could report back on what I find.

 

[mross]

Make sure it's a male chaperone Tony or they might both take advantage of you!

 

with apologies to OP

Edited February 22, 2017 by mross

[rusty69]

. I don't wash much, ''cat tries to teach me'' Keep washing worries me, I don't want my natural oils all washed away. S

Judging from your pic,your skins in great condition

[bizzard]

And I too haven't noticed a photo yet of the battery charger.

 

If it turns out to be like the one in the photo posted by Bizzard, I have one of those and I measured the charge current from mine with it set to 'High'. It was 3 Amps, falling to about 2 Amps as the tired battery to which it was attached, charged up.

Something wrong with it I reckon. I put mine on about 2 hours ago, battery at 12. 2v, voltmeter read 13.5, now crept up to 13.8, in a few hrs time it will top out at 15.2v remain there about 2 hrs and then back to 3.5 or so, tickle. I will then leave it on until until I go to bo-bo's. I have one LED light on at the mo.

[WotEver]

Which is why I offered to take a look if the boat is close enough. At the very least I could report back on what I find.

 

Olive, I would urge you to take up Tony on his very kind offer. You're unlikely to find anyone more competent to give the electrics a quick 'once over'

[OldGoat]

 

 

 

Quite off topic but that consumer unit ("fuseboard") is quite inappropriate for any boat.

Most normal shore line supplies are rated at 16amp (yes - you can get a 32amp setup - but these are not the norm) Both the RCBOs are rated at 63 amps and the breakers are a mix of 40 and 32 amp units.

This is a split unit for a large house NOT a narrowboat. Any qualified electrician would do a complete wobbly and probably go no further. A simple expedient might be to replace the RCBOs with a 16 amp unit. At leas that would protect some of cabling.

It's not satisfactory to say that the shore box would trip at 16amps - but I've seen units where the shore side fails and that can be expensive to repair. It's better if the boat side trips first.

 

The above arrangement is potentially dangerous as it stands.

[bizzard]

Judging from your pic,your skins in great condition

Your too kind. Yes isn't it, fresh and unblemished.