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Batteries constantly dying even though on trickle charge - help!


OliveOyl

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MY Intention with the SMPSU I found on ebay, was to have it permanently set to a float voltage - much less than 14v and leave it on 24/7/365( more like a UPS battery room). It will supply 20a so will supply part of the load needed so will never need to go into cyclic charge mode. Actually it may supply ALL the electrical needs on the boat without batteries!

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33 minutes ago, Arthur Brown said:

MY Intention with the SMPSU I found on ebay, was to have it permanently set to a float voltage - much less than 14v and leave it on 24/7/365( more like a UPS battery room). It will supply 20a so will supply part of the load needed so will never need to go into cyclic charge mode. Actually it may supply ALL the electrical needs on the boat without batteries!

Much like a Caravan's 13.6V psu then. 

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17 minutes ago, Arthur Brown said:

Yes.

There is no reason why a permanently hooked up boat shouldn't be all 230v (wired to standard ) or all 12v with a huge 12v power supply.

Yup, just like a caravan. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 22/02/2017 at 16:25, mross said:
On 22/02/2017 at 17:25, rusty69 said:

Why would an appropriate charger not be able to achieve this, particularily if the loads are small?

or flushes the loo??

I think we have a solution to the batteries dying!!!!

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On 22/02/2017 at 18:36, nicknorman said:
On 22/02/2017 at 18:53, Tony Brooks said:

 

I have a visually identical charger to that one and I am almost certain it was rated as an 8 amp output when I bought it. I certainly cope very well when we were in Liverpool docks for a week but then it had solar to help it (60W) but we were running an electric fridge 24/7. I have never seen 15.2V off it and I have a strong feeling it drops to float too early (as do many chargers) and will not go back to bulk charge unless it is switched off and on again.

 

I think that there are Halford chargers and Halford chargers, its all in the spec for the particular product. I think this sort would probably be OK for the OP but others, especially cheaper ones, will not be.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm. Eating is potentially dangerous. Lots of people die from it, probably more than from inappropriately rated consumer units.

 

You misunderstand the RCDs, they are not RCBOs. The 63 amps relates to the maximum throughput of the RCD, ie the max current it can pass and safely interrupt when it trips. It trips from current imbalance, not from over-current.

 

Yes I'd agree that probably no one breaker should be rated at more than 16A but plenty of boats seem to have several circuits each protected by breakers whose sum is more than 16A. It is not proscribed even though it might be considered not best practice. Don't over-egg it!

And of course we don't actually know what the shore connector is, although I'll admit that the chances are it's 16A.

 

On 02/03/2017 at 10:02, Mike the Boilerman said:
On 02/03/2017 at 10:02, Mike the Boilerman said:
On 03/03/2017 at 20:03, Arthur Brown said:

 

On 03/03/2017 at 19:42, Graham Davis said:

I've found with my caravan battery that I get the best charging regime over the winter by having the charger on a timeswitch. 

Would that work in this situation?

On 03/03/2017 at 18:47, Tony Brooks said:

Just back from the boat.

 

When I got there Olive had put her old charger on the battery and there were lights. I showed them both how to remove two failed halogen bulbs and check the supply. The halogens were 10 watts.

Judging by the weight the charger was of the transformer type and a row of lamps/leds on the front indicated it might deliver 6 amps. It was showing 1 amps  and 13.6 volts (measured) when I got there. I could not measure any significant permanent discharge.

After trying a variety of tricks to get none of the modern Halfords "smart" chargers to charge (including my own that looks like Biz's) I gave up. By that time the charger was showing no lamps and 15.2 volts with a measured 0.8 amps. I think this confirms it is a non-smart charger and it is why it will charge but smart ones will not.

This morning I looked up the data for Halford's chargers and as expected it was all marketing blurb and no proper technical specs. By extrapolation from the few figures given it appears that the chargers range in outputs from 2 amps to about 4 amps. There were no current markings on the chargers we had.

There was also the "new" 115Ah Halfords leisure battery that registered 6.4 volts when I tested it. Again no Halfords charger would even show power when connected to it.

On both the connected battery and the "new one" I tried connecting both the old charger plus a Halfords one in the hope that the old charger output would fool the new charger into thinking there was some charge in the batteries and work. All that did was to illuminate the "bulk" charge light on the Halfords charger even without it being plugged into the mains.

 

My conclusion is as follows. The old original battery that I did not bother with but I was told it worked for some time probably had a degree of internal shorting so the charger never sensed that the battery was fully charged so it stayed in bulk charge and covered the loads. When that battery failed (probably shorted a cell) the new battery had far less internal discharge so the so called smart charger did fully charge it. Now, I am far from clear what they do at this point being "consumer, mass market items". They may just illuminate the "fully charged" lamp and turn themselves off or they may drop to a float voltage. I do not think the float voltage is enough to cover the load of the 10W lamps being on until after midnight so the battery gradually fully discharged and sulphated.

The speed at which the  voltage from the old transformer charger reached 15 volts (about an hour or less) tends to confirm gross loss of capacity.

I think this may have been avoided if the "smart" charger was turned off and on again each day to force it back to "bulk" charge. In short I think its a very stupid charger ruining batteries.

 

I have advised that the batteries be taken to a garage and charged with some beefy equipment. This may just knock some sulphate off the plates and reconvert a bit more. I have also advised that if the Halfords charger is to continue in use it MUST be turned off and on again each day but the real answer is a three stage "marine" type charger that will not turn itself off  and will switch automatically back to "bulk"/"absorption" when a load goes on or the batteries discharge a bit.

 

Although I do not like single battery boats because of starting issues in this case and with the use made of the electricity I think it will work once the charging and battery condition is sorted.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mean-Well-SP-200-15-RC-15V-DC-200W-13-4A-Variable-Output-Power-Supply-PSU-/162412997046?hash=item25d091a9b6:g:1a4AAOSwjDZYhf62

 

Set the adjustment carefully

I'm still like it at 61.

In fact its getting noticeably worse...

I'm still like it at 61.

In fact its getting noticeably worse...

 

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It seems that when I returned the battery charger to Halfords as faulty, and they assured me it was workingm, they were mistaken.

 

The charger happily 'uncharged' my boat batteries til they were reading 0.6!!! My small, old charger that I connected to my son's boat when Tony kindly visited, was till going strong two weeks later (and it still doing so - been connected ever since and fully charging).

I contacted Halfords and told them their charger was killing both lots of batteries and they finally listened and swapped the battery charger and my son's batteries that I shelled out for. I told them Tony had visited and was going to do a write-up about the situation, so thanks again Tony for all your help.

For everyone who expressed concern about my son's water usage - despite now having a supply, he came home last week and availed himself of the facilities here :D.

Thanks again to everyone for all your input/ideas/suggestions/research etc etc.

Olive - now looking forward to a slightly more 'powerful' future :P

 

 

 

 

 

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