Canal Life 2017

[Machpoint005]

 

 

What gets my goat (I lurve that term!) is the tendency for boaters arriving on VMs to refuse to tie to the same mooring ring as the boat in front. Instead, they use the next ring along thereby leaving a 5m+ space.

 

Yes, that is inconsiderately stupid, especially on a long-term mooring. If the moorings are short-term only, it may happen by accident, but in general I doubt it

[Mike Todd]

 

 

That's not dumping though, that's CMing.

 

'Dumping' is fully compliant CCing whilst not occupying the boat when moored. its an abuse but a change in the law will be required to stop it.

It may well be infuriating but is is really 'abuse'? Surely the action is entirely within the spirit as well as the letter of the current rules. We have to remember that CC is actually shorthand for 'boats without a home mooring'. There is nothing in that title that indicates it is limited to people who solely live on that boat. Residential status is something else.

[Machpoint005]

It may well be infuriating but is is really 'abuse'? Surely the action is entirely within the spirit as well as the letter of the current rules. We have to remember that CC is actually shorthand for 'boats without a home mooring'. There is nothing in that title that indicates it is limited to people who solely live on that boat. Residential status is something else.

 

Good point, well made.

[magictime]

It may well be infuriating but is is really 'abuse'? Surely the action is entirely within the spirit as well as the letter of the current rules. We have to remember that CC is actually shorthand for 'boats without a home mooring'. There is nothing in that title that indicates it is limited to people who solely live on that boat. Residential status is something else.

 

Quite. Although I don't see why it should be infuriating, provided "dumpers" show a bit of basic consideration in terms of where they leave the boat (e.g. not hogging moorings intended for visitors to the local town/village).

[MtB]

 

Quite. Although I don't see why it should be infuriating, provided "dumpers" show a bit of basic consideration in terms of where they leave the boat (e.g. not hogging moorings intended for visitors to the local town/village).

 

 

So how about the dumpers who mostly show no consideration and hog moorings intended for visitors to the local towns or villages, shuffling up and down a ten mile stretch the same as us genuine CCers?

 

 

 

.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[Mike Todd]

 

 

So how about the dumpers who mostly show no consideration and hog moorings intended for visitors to the local towns or villages, shuffling up and down a ten mile stretch the same as us genuine CCers?

 

 

 

.

I'm not into emojis so I'll assume that those are for sarcasm!

 

That said, surely there are two categories: people who have a home mooring but who choose to leave their boat for a couple of weeks whilst they go elsewhere. I'd be surprised if these create much of a problem, certainly not shuffling up and down, as that would be a waste of their mooring fees if they never go home. Of course, there have been suggestions that a few folk have pushed the boundaries by obtaining a so-called fake mooring, far from where they want to work.

 

On the other hand, there are those without a home mooring but who do not live aboard full time. However, I doubt whether the pattern you describe would be any more acceptable than if it were their only home. They may not be CC but they certainly are boaters without a home mooring and therefore subject to the same scrutiny as other with the same declaration.

[magictime]

 

 

So how about the dumpers who mostly show no consideration and hog moorings intended for visitors to the local towns or villages, shuffling up and down a ten mile stretch the same as us genuine CCers?

 

 

 

.

 

Well, I can see why that would be infuriating. Sorry, I thought that was implicit in what I said.

 

Can I ask again why you think that even fully compliant "dumping" is an abuse? It'd be nice to at least understand why people might think we were abusing the system by boating in the way we did (i.e. leaving our boat on the towpath for up to 14 days between cruises in the course of enjoying several hundreds of miles' cruising each year).

[mrsmelly]

 

Well, I can see why that would be infuriating. Sorry, I thought that was implicit in what I said.

 

Can I ask again why you think that even fully compliant "dumping" is an abuse? It'd be nice to at least understand why people might think we were abusing the system by boating in the way we did (i.e. leaving our boat on the towpath for up to 14 days between cruises in the course of enjoying several hundreds of miles' cruising each year).

 

I dont think peeps mind dumpers realy its just how you dump so to speak. We have dumped in the past when traveling between Bath and York one year in particular as I recall. Thing is we never left the boat on a vm we always placed it ( Nowhere ) usualy near to a road access but not in a bridge hole aaarrgggghhhh. Its the ones that leave it on a vm that most peeps hate as then people going thro an area cannot stop. We get dumpers here on the 14 day moorings but its a long stretch so doesnt oft cause a problem. I think dumping is getting less round here tho as CART quite rightly are now at last enforcing ccing. As for Devizes in my opinion dumping anywhere down there after the bridge would be a pain for many people trying to find a mooring as there is precious little of it anyway.

[Bunny]

Where were there 1k crt moorings .we used to pay almost that for a 62ft boat on winter moorings in Kintbury, and that was a few years ago. Bunny

[Tuscan]

The number of places to safety leave a boat has reduced over the years with a mix of short stay visitor moorings and the lack of dredging making it difficult to safety leave a boat against the towpath. More dredging to the bank especially by existing visitor moorings would help everyone.

[magictime]

 

I dont think peeps mind dumpers realy its just how you dump so to speak. We have dumped in the past when traveling between Bath and York one year in particular as I recall. Thing is we never left the boat on a vm we always placed it ( Nowhere ) usualy near to a road access but not in a bridge hole aaarrgggghhhh. Its the ones that leave it on a vm that most peeps hate as then people going thro an area cannot stop.

 

Yes, that all makes sense, but I get the impression that while MtB doesn't necessarily mind considerate dumping, he does think it's an abuse of the system. I'd just like to understand why.

[MtB]

I'm not into emojis so I'll assume that those are for sarcasm!

 

 

Its a pair of eyes peeping out from a hiding place have just said something one thinks is deliberately outrageous and provocative.

[MtB]

To expand, I have been shuffling up and down between about Devizes and Newbury for about 18 months now and I am noticing a lot of dumper boats particularly at the Newbury end shuffling over a far shorter distance than that. I seem to remember posting on here in a thread about dumpers last year that I was moored at Hamstead Marshall with six other boats, and three or possibly four of them were dumpers. This is not an unusual proportion.

 

Certainly the dumpers compete with the liveaboards for the decent mooring spaces at this end of the K&A rather than mooring out of the way, which is perfectly legal but irritating and set to get worse.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[blackrose]

 

It did just occur to me that he might be dead, but waking up a bloke sleeping off a hangover just to check that he isn't dead is a bit rude. Will check tomorrow. If he is dead then its not urgent.

 

 

VMs being used as WMs isn't really an issue that affects me as I moor on rivers and generally stay at my mooring all winter. But it's amazing how things have changed even over the 20 short years since I got my first boat. I was on canals back then and couldn't understand why my friend bothered to pay for a winter mooring on the VMs in Berkhamsted on the GU when nobody bothered you for overstaying in winter anyway in more secluded places a few miles away. The BW attitude seemed to be that if you wanted to live on a boat in winter and you weren't bothering anyone then they wouldn't bother you because it wasn't such an issue, but all that's changed now of course due to the sheer numbers of boats on the canals and the corresponding numbers overstaying.

 

Anyway, I hope you manage to find somewhere to moor.

[blackrose]

To expand, I have been shuffling up and down between about Devizes and Newbury for about 18 months now and I am noticing a lot of dumper boats particularly at the Newbury end shuffling over a far shorter distance than that. I seem to remember posting on here in a thread about dumpers last year that I was moored at Hamstead Marshall with six other boats, and three or possibly four of them were dumpers. This is not an unusual proportion.

 

Certainly the dumpers compete with the liveaboards for the decent mooring spaces at this end of the K&A rather than mooring out of the way, which is perfectly legal but irritating and set to get worse.

 

Mike, this is a genuine question and I'm not having a go, but since you're shuffling up and down between Devizes and Newbury (which by the way, seems like quite a long run to me and perfectly acceptable), does it actually fulfil the terms of a CC licence according to CRT rules (however those are defined)? If not then should you really be getting irritated at others who also don't follow the rules to the letter?

 

On the other hand it may be that you are fulfilling the terms, in which case please feel free to get as irritated as you like!

[MtB]

 

Mike, this is a genuine question and I'm not having a go, but since you're shuffling up and down between Devizes and Newbury (which by the way, seems like quite a long run to me and perfectly acceptable), does it actually fulfil the terms of a CC licence according to CRT rules (however those are defined)? If not then should you really be getting irritated at others who also don't follow the rules to the letter?

 

On the other hand it may be that you are fulfilling the terms, in which case please feel free to get as irritated as you like!

 

 

Like all CCers, I have no way of knowing if my movements fulfill CRTs requirements other than the absence of any communications from them saying otherwise.

 

Equally, the few dumpers I've met and spoken to generally seem to be nice middle class people not the sort likely to take the p!ss, so I doubt they are getting any narky emails from CRT either.

 

So while they too are probably cruising to CRT's satisfaction, history teaches us CRT may change their views on this at any time, at which point I'll either change my cruising pattern to comply with new requirements, or get a mooring.

 

Either way though, I find it irritating to find unoccupied boats bunging up the moorings nearest to the car parks, whether or not is reasonable so to do!

[David Schweizer]

So let me get this right Mike. It is annoying and irritating for you when people moor their unoccupied boat legally on a 14 day VM, but it is fine for you to do the same because you are on the boat. I am at a loss as to why you think you have more "rights" than others who are paying the same licence fee, and complying with the rules in the same way as yourself.

 

The rules, as I understand them, do not differentiate between occupied and unoccupied boats, so where is the grievance? using your hypothesis, those who move their boat every 14 days, and seek to leave it unoccupied on a 14day VM but cannot do so because the VM's are fully occupied with liveaboards" could feel equally annoyed and irrirtated. It is merely a question of from who's perspective the issue is viewed.

Edited February 11, 2017 by David Schweizer

[magictime]

So let me get this right Mike. It is annoying and irritating for you when people moor their unoccupied boat legally on a 14 day VM, but it is fine for you to do the same because you are on the boat. I am at a loss as to why you think you have more "rights" than others who are paying the same licence fee, and complying with the rules in the same way as yourself.

 

The rules, as I understand them, do not differntiate between occupied and unoccupied boats, so where is the grievance? using your hypothesis, those who move their boat every 14 days, and seek to leave it unoccupied on a 14day VM but cannot do so because the VM's are fully occupied with liveaboards" could feel equally annoyed and irrirtated. It is merely a question of from who's perspective the issue is viewed.

 

Well, I'm coming from the other perspective - that of someone complying with the CCing requirements but not living aboard, and so leaving the boat unoccupied for up to 14 days - and I can very much see where Mike's coming from.

 

We always took the view that while it might not be against the rules to leave an occupied boat on a VM, it's nonetheless a bit "off" to take a space you're not really seeing the benefit of (because you're not sightseeing in the town, using the facilities etc.) but other people might really appreciate. So we always tried to leave the boat away from formal VMs, at least if they were in short supply, in order not to get in anyone's way.

[DaveP]

I suspect the irritation arises partially from the 'facilities' aspect of VM's - Eg mown grass, rings/Armco, bins, water, elsan locations etc. All things that a liveaboard will use more often than a dumper. In a crowded system those who occupy 'prime' locations without considering others more intensive use of the available facilities are guilty of selfishness, or thoughtlessness. I'm liveaboard cc'ing, on the Southern Oxford for winter - there are definitely more cc'ers here than the last time (5 years ago) but it's not crowded at all and with Dusty doing regular supply runs (and Hook Norton ales available in hostelries) it's all rather civilised.

[Taslim]

 

Well, I'm coming from the other perspective - that of someone complying with the CCing requirements but not living aboard, and so leaving the boat unoccupied for up to 14 days - and I can very much see where Mike's coming from.

 

We always took the view that while it might not be against the rules to leave an occupied boat on a VM, it's nonetheless a bit "off" to take a space you're not really seeing the benefit of (because you're not sightseeing in the town, using the facilities etc.) but other people might really appreciate. So we always tried to leave the boat away from formal VMs, at least if they were in short supply, in order not to get in anyone's way.

Green one and I to go with MTB too.

 

As for not sharing mooring rings the temptation to moor up then flag up Quebec or Lima and see how the 'owner' of the ring reacts is strong.

[Arthur Marshall]

Green one and I to go with MTB too.

 

As for not sharing mooring rings the temptation to moor up then flag up Quebec or Lima and see how the 'owner' of the ring reacts is strong.

These days a lot of boats run their engines for hours and I have an aversion to having my boat filled with someone else's diesel fumes. So I usually leave gaps and, in fact, moor as far from everyone else as I can. I also consider this to be considerate as I play the trombone...

However , if it gets crowded, I move up.

[WotEver]

I also consider this to be considerate as I play the trombone...

Be careful where you play it...

https://youtu.be/qs_-emj1qR4

[MtB]

These days a lot of boats run their engines for hours and I have an aversion to having my boat filled with someone else's diesel fumes. So I usually leave gaps and, in fact, moor as far from everyone else as I can. I also consider this to be considerate as I play the trombone...

However , if it gets crowded, I move up.

 

 

That's a great point. I've totally changed my mind about dumpers. More than irritating then a dumper is a boat running its engine for hours on a crowded mooring 6ft from my bow.

 

I'm gonna go out of my way in future to moor bow-to-a-dumper as they are quiet ALL the time !

Edited February 11, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[WotEver]

 

They like jazz too...

[system 4-50]

The main problem is just that there are far too few VMs. All I ask is a load more rings and sufficient depth to get within sight of them. How hard is it to put rings in? Every bit of towpath that is suitable for stopping at should have rings in place ---- and pins should be banned.

Edited February 11, 2017 by system 4-50