What's left to restore?

[Canal Cuttings]

After watching a recent programme about the foundation of the IWA, I realised that although its original policy of "fighting for every mile of canal" must have seemed ludicrous at the time, it has more-or-less come to pass.

 

Most remaining derelict canals have an enthusiastic society working to restore them, clear plans on how to do so, and large budgets to help them succeed. Every local authority seems keen to have a waterway promoting tourism and business in its area.

 

So, what is left to seriously campaign for? I'm thinking about waterways that are forgotten about, those where restoration is just treading water and not really getting anywhere, or worthy/picturesque links that really should be restored but no-one seems to care.

 

Any suggestions?

[Athy]

 

 

Most remaining derelict canals have an enthusiastic society working to restore them, clear plans on how to do so, and large budgets to help them succeed. Every local authority seems keen to have a waterway promoting tourism and business in its area.

 

 

Your points are well made, apart from this one! If the budgets were large, then the Chesterfield, the Wilts & Berks and the Cotswold Canals would all be fully operational by now. But do feel free to add to the budgets of these worthy projects.

[Leo No2]

There's also restored canals that are fighting tooth and nail to remain open - the current example is the Basingstoke which is suffering from a huge lack of investment by the two owning County Councils (Surrey and Hampshire) despite what I think are the heroic (and very longstanding) efforts of the Basingstoke Canal Society (previously known as Surrey & Hampshire Canal Society).

 

Edited to add this link to the IWA website which I think shows there are definite funding problems and difficulty in a suggested transfer to CRT. Until CRT take over the EA Navigation responsibilities and perhaps even the National Trust River Wey the Basingstoke will remain an isolated (but stunningly beautiful) waterway desperately in need of a sustainable future otherwise the work of the thousands of volunteers who restored it will be in vain.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Leo No2

[matty40s]

Top end of the Lancaster, only the Highways Agency refusing to countenance change is stopping anything major happening.

[Derek R.]

I think the biggest challenge is maintaining what has been restored as mentioned in Leo's post.

I'm reminded of Rommel and his charge across N. Africa, only to be let down by a stretched supply line (and a little help from the 2nd 8th Army!)

[BWM]

I think the biggest challenge is maintaining what has been restored as mentioned in Leo's post.

I'm reminded of Rommel and his charge across N. Africa, only to be let down by a stretched supply line (and a little help from the 2nd 8th Army!)

Absolutely, even some areas of the main canal are being lost/neglected. Locally, the original towpath has been left unmaintained for several years now on the grand union, from the A40 to the bridge above Denham deep lock. This leaves a turn over bridge without a purpose.

[Del 'boy' Trotter]

There's also restored canals that are fighting tooth and nail to remain open - the current example is the Basingstoke which is suffering from a huge lack of investment by the two owning County Councils (Surrey and Hampshire) despite what I think are the heroic (and very longstanding) efforts of the Basingstoke Canal Society (previously known as Surrey & Hampshire Canal Society).

 

Memories of seeing a number of week/end 'Deep Digs' organised by canal enthusiasts through the woods around Pirbright & Frimley back in the mid-1970s.

[Leo No2]

 

Memories of seeing a number of week/end 'Deep Digs' organised by canal enthusiasts through the woods around Pirbright & Frimley back in the mid-1970s.

 

Like this image showing the Deepcut Railway - sometime during the 1977 'Deepcut Big Dig' I think.

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Leo No2

[FadeToScarlet]

There's also restored canals that are fighting tooth and nail to remain open - the current example is the Basingstoke which is suffering from a huge lack of investment by the two owning County Councils (Surrey and Hampshire) despite what I think are the heroic (and very longstanding) efforts of the Basingstoke Canal Society (previously known as Surrey & Hampshire Canal Society).

 

Edited to add this link to the IWA website which I think shows there are definite funding problems and difficulty in a suggested transfer to CRT. Until CRT take over the EA Navigation responsibilities and perhaps even the National Trust River Wey the Basingstoke will remain an isolated (but stunningly beautiful) waterway desperately in need of a sustainable future otherwise the work of the thousands of volunteers who restored it will be in vain.

The general conclusion, after the HNBC gathering at Woking last year, was how good the condition of the canal was.

 

It's in a better position than it has been for years, and according to the BCS the drinking water abstraction from the aquifer that supplies the top end are coming to an end, to that will help a lot too.

[Del 'boy' Trotter]

 

Like this image showing the Deepcut Railway - sometime during the 1977 'Deepcut Big Dig' I think.

 

 

Exactly Leo No2 the very same 'Deep Dig' on the Basingstoke canal back in the 1970s.

[Leo No2]

The general conclusion, after the HNBC gathering at Woking last year, was how good the condition of the canal was.

 

It's in a better position than it has been for years, and according to the BCS the drinking water abstraction from the aquifer that supplies the top end are coming to an end, to that will help a lot too.

 

I agree BUT it is the future funding to keeping it from deteriorating that is of huge concern at the moment - 28 of the 29 locks are in Surrey and 50% of those over a 2 mile stretch. The embankment at Dogmersfield is still not fully repaired after four years and there's other embankment issues at North Warnborough that are not being addressed mainly because of lack of money but in reality lack of money in the past decade to survey and shore up these well known places that cause issues. Dogmersfield collapsed in 1983 - see this link.

 

This image shows the level of work required - this is 1982/3 and this cutting slipped again in 2013 and I understand is still not fully repaired.

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Leo No2

[Pluto]

Perhaps we should be doing more to promote canals which have not been closed. One reason I set up the L&LC Society was that the traditions and heritage of that canal were being forgotten. It was also suffering from decreasing maintenance standards possibly because money in the north west was being put towards the Rochdale and Huddersfield Narrow. Given government attitudes to financing canals, it is going to be hard enough keeping what we have in good order. It is good that waterways are being restored, but they do need additional money for maintenance in the long term, otherwise standards on the existing network will decline.

[zenataomm]

A prime candidate for restoration is me.

[Joseph]

Hello everyone

 

Well, going back to the original question, i think that one of the prime candidates is the one I count as the biggest loss since the IWA formed, the line to Shrewsbury and Newport. This was pretty much complete and in water in 1965, when I first saw it, and, outside Newport and the odd bit and structure, pretty much destroyed by the end of the 1970s. I know there is a restoration society, but it has to be a very long haul.

 

Others that might go on a to-do list include the St Helens Canal, the Dee locks in Chester, the various waterways that would extend the cruising grounds of the Broads, most waterways in the North of Ireland, and the Neath, Tennant and Swansea. I also wonder about the Monkland Canal in Scotland - the path to rebuild this is clear, so long as the motorway that occupies its site is cleared. Ditto the Glasgow Paisley and Johnstone - just move that inconvenient railway out of the way!

 

Incidentally, if one looks for canals that were regularly navigated by powered pleasure boats after 1946, but are not now navigable, the only candidates I can think of are Runcorn Locks (and Hulme Lock), the Dee Locks branch (I went down this in 1973), and....can't think of others. A few stubs and diverted lines here and there, and the odd basin. I know that, in the Midlands, Bradley Locks, the Cannock Extension and Hatherton Branch, Tipton Green and Toll End Locks, Fens branch and Stourbridge Extension, and maybe the Haines branch, saw the odd pleasure boat, but none on a regular basis. And maybe the Black Bear Canal in Warrington? Possibly the first short length of the Hollinwood branch of the Ashton Canal, in Droylesden, may have seen a pleasure boat?

 

There may be some glaring omissions from that list, but that's all I can think of. I'd be very interested if anyone can think of others.

 

Bye for now

 

Joseph

[magpie patrick]

"What's left to restore" is a difficult question to answer, it needs one to answer first "where does one stop" - TheMilton Keynes to Bedford Link is not a restoration, yet such a canal is an active proposal. If we include canals that were never built the sky is the limit, with my own favourite being the Dorset and Somerset from Bradford on Avon to at least Frome,

 

My own view is that the next thirty years will see less expensive schemes that provide moorings and are of local interest: "less expensive" could be as small as forgotten basins but I'm thinking more of schemes under £10 million (Under £5 million even more so) that either connect to the network or have distinct local benefits. I'm currently working on the Ashby to Measham, the Stockport Branch and the Swansea, and I've recently worked on Bradley Locks, These all fall into this category. Bearing in mind that what I do is very much front end feasibility work, often for local groups, this seems to suggest a trend.

Edited February 5, 2017 by magpie patrick

[Pluto]

Incidentally, if one looks for canals that were regularly navigated by powered pleasure boats after 1946, but are not now navigable, the only candidates I can think of are Runcorn Locks (and Hulme Lock), the Dee Locks branch (I went down this in 1973), and....can't think of others. A few stubs and diverted lines here and there, and the odd basin. I know that, in the Midlands, Bradley Locks, the Cannock Extension and Hatherton Branch, Tipton Green and Toll End Locks, Fens branch and Stourbridge Extension, and maybe the Haines branch, saw the odd pleasure boat, but none on a regular basis. And maybe the Black Bear Canal in Warrington? Possibly the first short length of the Hollinwood branch of the Ashton Canal, in Droylesden, may have seen a pleasure boat?

 

There may be some glaring omissions from that list, but that's all I can think of. I'd be very interested if anyone can think of others.

 

Bye for now

 

Joseph

I would add the Lancaster, as I remember talking to Oswald ? who was living on Stork at Burscough in the early 1970s, and he moved, with a different boat, onto the L&LC after the upper end of the Lancaster closed. He thought he was the last boater to use Tewitfield Locks.

[matty40s]

The Dee locks didn't look in too bad shape last week. However, there would need to be seen serious digging and tree work to get out the bottom end, silt banks right up the stop planks.

[1st ade]

I'm currently working on the Ashby to Measham, the Stockport Branch and the Swansea, and I've recently worked on Bradley Locks...

 

And you STILL find time to post on CWF in the Wee Small Hours! I'm impressed.

[nebulae]

Have just rooted out my button badge Deepcut Dig 77 .Makes me feel my age looking at it. I wonder if I will live to see any more canals re-opening in my lifetime. My favorite would be the Stroudwater and Thames and Severn to Brimscombe.

[Jrtm]

The Dee locks didn't look in too bad shape last week. However, there would need to be seen serious digging and tree work to get out the bottom end, silt banks right up the stop planks.

I remember when the dee locks could be used (asuming this is the chester dee) infact towys been on the dee.

[magpie patrick]

I remember when the dee locks could be used (asuming this is the chester dee) infact towys been on the dee.

 

It's a classic case of use them or lose them, there has been a huge increase in the number of boats on the canals, a large (but not as large) increase in boat movements in many areas, but the outliers are still deserted. Doubling the number of boats on the canals doesn't double the demand for the Dee Branch, or Horseway Lock...

[BEngo]

Well, doubling the numbers might well double the demand, even at horseway or the dee branch. The problem is that twice buggerall is still buggerall whereas twice as many boats at Braunston is a nightmare.

 

N

[magpie patrick]

Well, doubling the numbers might well double the demand, even at horseway or the dee branch. The problem is that twice buggerall is still buggerall whereas twice as many boats at Braunston is a nightmare.

 

N

 

 

 

I didn't word that quite right did I!

 

Yes, perhaps the problem is that the growth has been even, rather than spreading to the quieter spots.

[Richard Fairhurst]

My own view is that the next thirty years will see less expensive schemes that provide moorings and are of local interest: "less expensive" could be as small as forgotten basins but I'm thinking more of schemes under £10 million (Under £5 million even more so) that either connect to the network or have distinct local benefits. I'm currently working on the Ashby to Measham, the Stockport Branch and the Swansea, and I've recently worked on Bradley Locks, These all fall into this category. Bearing in mind that what I do is very much front end feasibility work, often for local groups, this seems to suggest a trend.

 

Interesting view. The Wilts & Berks to Melksham might fall into that category, too.

[Canal Cuttings]

Thanks everyone for your answers. It seems as if the initial phase of saving canals is virtually dead - even canals like the Cotswold Canals mentioned above seem to have a thriving rescue group. Now is the time to support existing canals that need maintenance.