Edgbaston Tunnel. W & B Canal

[ditchcrawler]

Yes, some years (10 years?) ago Newbold tunnel was equipped with a row of multi-coloured lights which, as well as illuminating the towpath, shone rather fetchingly across the roof. The tunnel had a towpath both sides and the lights were mounted at ground level on the offside.

 

I thought that was a good waste of money, I dont know how much BW towards it and how much was council, it was for the Diwali

[MoominPapa]

Why should there be a solution for ALL users?

 

The canal is there, first and foremost for navigation.

 

Boats (should) have priority. Walkers, cyclists, maggot danglers etc are all secondary users.

 

The canal is there, first and foremost, for transport of goods. Face it, leisure boaters are as much secondary users as cyclists and walkers.

 

MP.

[Victor Vectis]

Boat users pay for a licence to use the navigation, doesn't matter if goods are being transported or the use is leisure.

 

I don't want to sound mean, towpaths are great for (secondary) leisure use, but these users get it for free.

 

(And no arguments along the lines of "but they pay for the use through taxation, etc" I'm talking about free at the point of delivery)

[frangar]

So what is your solution for ALL users, Gareth?

I'm not sure you can ever keep all users happy. But altering a historic structure to benefit a user group that doesn't pay directly and starts a precedent for the detriment of one that does is daft....where do you think it should stop?? All towpaths tarmac....all bridges made narrow....locks are very dangerous....etc...etc.

[Dave_P]

I must admit to having concerns about this. The stretch of towpath between the city centre and the university is one of the busiest in the country for cyclists and pedestrians and there have been a good number of accidents and collisions on the towpath. According to the cycle repairers on the uni campus, the number of incidents has increased substantially since the towpath was hard surfaced. The tunnel section currently acts rather like a speed hump in that it forces cyclists to slow down. It is simply impossible for two bikes to pass in the tunnel unless one or both dismount. This is a good thing in my opinion. To increase the width without compromising safety, a far wider towpath would need to be created with marked cycling and walking lanes to reduce the risk of collisions, this would have a substantial impact on the water-space. The cycling app strava has this as a 'segment' showing cyclists averaging over 30kph through this stretch. Widening the towpath here would surely lead to even faster speeds.

 

For me, on busy sections, the towpath should either be so narrow that cyclists have to dismount and push, or so wide that pedestrians and cyclists can both be accommodated. The towpath through edgbaston is mostly just wide enough to allow for high speed cycling but not wide wide enough for it to be safe. A dangerous situation which is likely to be made worse by this proposal.

https://www.strava.com/segments/1781502

[dmr]

This is the thin end of a potentially huge and destructive wedge.

It might be that in a few cases it makes sense to narrow the canal and widen the towpath, and this might be one of them, but this decision must be made with great care so as not to set a precedent.

The suggestions somewhere above that there are more cyclists and walkers than boats, and it won't inconvenience boaters much, is very dangerous. The canals are a precious and unique piece of history (and natural habitat etc etc) and must be protected. I don't think simple numerical democracy works here; most of the canal network has more walkers and cyclists than boaters but this is not a reason to fill it in and turn it into a cycleway. There are loads of other places to cycle but only one canal network.

 

Based on my own informal study of usage I would suggest that if we want to optimise the canal for the most numerous user group then we should ban cyclists and runners, widen the towpath and turn it into a playground for dogs.

 

..............Dave

[costalot]

I must admit to having concerns about this. The stretch of towpath between the city centre and the university is one of the busiest in the country for cyclists and pedestrians and there have been a good number of accidents and collisions on the towpath. According to the cycle repairers on the uni campus, the number of incidents has increased substantially since the towpath was hard surfaced. The tunnel section currently acts rather like a speed hump in that it forces cyclists to slow down. It is simply impossible for two bikes to pass in the tunnel unless one or both dismount. This is a good thing in my opinion. To increase the width without compromising safety, a far wider towpath would need to be created with marked cycling and walking lanes to reduce the risk of collisions, this would have a substantial impact on the water-space. The cycling app strava has this as a 'segment' showing cyclists averaging over 30kph through this stretch. Widening the towpath here would surely lead to even faster speeds.

 

For me, on busy sections, the towpath should either be so narrow that cyclists have to dismount and push, or so wide that pedestrians and cyclists can both be accommodated. The towpath through edgbaston is mostly just wide enough to allow for high speed cycling but not wide wide enough for it to be safe. A dangerous situation which is likely to be made worse by this proposal.

https://www.strava.com/segments/1781502

I tend to agree. Ignoring the boat issue...... Will widening the towpath make it safer or even more of a hazard? It appears the current situation forces cyclists to slow down and that may not be a bad thing!

[MoominPapa]

Boat users pay for a licence to use the navigation, doesn't matter if goods are being transported or the use is leisure.

 

I don't want to sound mean, towpaths are great for (secondary) leisure use, but these users get it for free.

 

(And no arguments along the lines of "but they pay for the use through taxation, etc" I'm talking about free at the point of delivery)

 

But they do pay and have paid. The canals are not private property, they were nationalised and, eventually, given to CRT along with a lot of taxpayers' money. How much do you think a license would cost if the canals were still private and boaters paid for them all? How much much would it cost once all the boats who couldn't afford it left the system? Like it or not, the canals still exist because they're of great utility to many people other than boaters, and who don't pay for them directly.

 

Cheers,

 

MP.

[Victor Vectis]

 

But they do pay and have paid. The canals are not private property, they were nationalised and, eventually, given to CRT along with a lot of taxpayers' money. How much do you think a license would cost if the canals were still private and boaters paid for them all? How much much would it cost once all the boats who couldn't afford it left the system? Like it or not, the canals still exist because they're of great utility to many people other than boaters, and who don't pay for them directly.

 

Cheers,

 

MP.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that.

 

All I'm saying is that if push comes to shove the interests of boats and navigation should come first.

[MoominPapa]

I'm not disagreeing with any of that.

 

All I'm saying is that if push comes to shove the interests of boats and navigation should come first.

and I'm not disagreeing with that.

 

All I'm saying is that (in this case) there's no push or shove; the tunnel is practically one-way anyway, and one-way tunnels as long or longer are the norm elsewhere on the system.

 

MP.

[mayalld]

 

Whilst not directly related to this particular stretch, I feel I should point out that 'Sustrans' do directly contribute to the upkeep and refurbishment of the canal towpaths in order to make them suitable for canal users, cyclists and walkers.

 

http://www.sustrans.org.uk/policy-evidence/the-impact-of-our-work/great-new-canal-towpath-walking-and-cycling-sale-and

 

Just thought some people might be interested.

 

Kevin

 

The towpaths are already suitable for other users.

 

Sustrans are simply about making them suitable for more intensive use by cyclists, usually to the detriment of other users who find that the increased cycle traffic makes them a less safe place to be or that they can no longer moor up because there is a paved surface and no mooring rings.

[PeterG]

and I'm not disagreeing with that.

 

All I'm saying is that (in this case) there's no push or shove; the tunnel is practically one-way anyway, and one-way tunnels as long or longer are the norm elsewhere on the system.

 

MP.

 

I think the fact the tunnel is practically one-way for cyclists is a good thing, as how wide would you need to make it safe for cyclists and pedestrians two way, the whole width of the canal?

[Dave Payne]

Being a rural cruiser I had never really got why people moan about cyclists on the towpath, then I went up farmers bridge locks at 6pm and saw how fast they go with little respect for walking folk.

[matty40s]

Being a rural cruiser I had never really got why people moan about cyclists on the towpath, then I went up farmers bridge locks at 6pm and saw how fast they go with little respect for walking folk.

I enjoy immensely going up there and refusing to move to one side whilst closing and opening gates so they can come past at 30 kmh. Another lycra clad idiot thought he had the right of way over half a dozen pedestrians under the Broad St bridge and got a right good shoulder barge for ignoring the cyclists dismount sign.

[Dave_P]

Being a rural cruiser I had never really got why people moan about cyclists on the towpath, then I went up farmers bridge locks at 6pm and saw how fast they go with little respect for walking folk.

This is exactly the point. People often post opinions despite no direct experience of the situation.

 

Farmer's Bridge is quiet for cyclists and pedestrians compared to the W&B at Edgbaston.

 

In my opinion, it's only a matter of time before someone drowns as a direct result of a speeding cyclist. This proposal would make it even more likely.

[PeterG]

Yes I agree there is a lot of traffic around the Edgbaston area which seems to have become much quicker since the towpath resurfacing, or making it into a motorway as it looks like now. Very worrying about all of these cycling apps with league tables which are encouraging people to go for a quicker speed each time. Perhaps the provders of these apps should be reminded about the safety aspects of encouraging this type of attitude?

[Mike Todd]

Yes I agree there is a lot of traffic around the Edgbaston area which seems to have become much quicker since the towpath resurfacing, or making it into a motorway as it looks like now. Very worrying about all of these cycling apps with league tables which are encouraging people to go for a quicker speed each time. Perhaps the provders of these apps should be reminded about the safety aspects of encouraging this type of attitude?

The whole purpose for those funding the towpath improvements in urban areas has been to provide an additional transport system. As with any other, speed is an important factor in personal decisions about which method to use. Obviously in this case cost is also prominent.

 

The greater part of the increase in traffic will almost certainly have come from those who use the towpath principally as a means of getting from A to B.

 

So, both the intention and the actual behaviour all point towards traffic at the highest speed possible and one should not expect otherwise.

 

However, I have said it before and will no doubt have to say it again, look back at the state of towpaths before they were discovered as a means of (cycle) transportation. Most were barely passable even when you were clothed in heavy anti-nettle gear. Certainly heavy footwear was a necessity. When we started, back in mid Sixties, we would regularly find places where the towpath could offer little more than access between adjacent locks. In many ways we have to be grateful that the towpaths found an alternative use and one that had a reasonable amount of cash at is disposal. Just think how many lock defects would not have been attended to to achieve the current state of the towpaths!

[PeterG]

Knowing this area quite well, the encouragement of highest possible speed is a real safety issue. This towpath is used by all types of people walking, pushing prams, wheelchair users, normal speed cyclist, a boater or two, fishermen, dog walkers plus high speed cyclists. No-one should be encouraging high speed cyclists to the detriment of all others.

 

More natural barriers to ultimate speed like rougher paths and narrow sections should help to reduce the tendancy to go fast and hence making the towpath safe for all, as long as people keep their brains engaged when putting on lycra.

[furnessvale]

 

 

More natural barriers to ultimate speed like rougher paths and narrow sections should help to reduce the tendancy to go fast and hence making the towpath safe for all, as long as people keep their brains engaged when putting on lycra.

Sustrans will not allow any measures to slow cyclists on any towpath "improvements" to which they contribute financially.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[thebfg]

Yes I agree there is a lot of traffic around the Edgbaston area which seems to have become much quicker since the towpath resurfacing, or making it into a motorway as it looks like now. Very worrying about all of these cycling apps with league tables which are encouraging people to go for a quicker speed each time. Perhaps the provders of these apps should be reminded about the safety aspects of encouraging this type of attitude?

I will have a look at the segments. They can be reported as unsafe. They then make it so you can not see anyone else's times.

Personally any segment that involves shares use paths are definitely unsafe.

[furnessvale]

I will have a look at the segments. They can be reported as unsafe. They then make it so you can not see anyone else's times.

Personally any segment that involves shares use paths are definitely unsafe.

That would be EVERY towpath in the country for starters.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Jon57]

Soon it won't be safe on the pavement!!

Should cycling be allowed on pavements?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38688256

[The Bearwood Boster]

I have to say, we have had our own boat for 13 years this year & before that we hired.It's really only the last few years where cyclists have become a pain in the bum ?

[Dave_P]

Sustrans will not allow any measures to slow cyclists on any towpath "improvements" to which they contribute financially.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

What makes you think this is being paid for by Sustrans?

[furnessvale]

What makes you think this is being paid for by Sustrans?

I was responding to a comment about towpaths in general, many of which have "benefited" from Sustrans money.

 

George ex nb Alton retired