Massive mooring fees hike in London

[tangledfooted]

Stonebridge South Permanent Leisure Moorings (SSM) are offside moorings on the River Lee between Tottenham lock and Stonebridge lock, there are 43 boats at present. SSM is gated at either end with vehicle access from the South only. There is a dirt track, unofficial but long established gardens and onsite parking. There is no water or electric. Mooring fees this year are £188 per meter per annum. This site was inherited by BW about twenty years ago and some users have been here since before that time.

 

CRT (Waterside Moorings) want to put in electric and water and improve the access road, add some finger moorings and hike the price from £188 to £300 per meter per annum. Works will start in April and finish in July. Price hike starts in April. Oh and at the end of it all - go residential.

 

We have been in consultation for over a year and made some progress and enjoyed some concessions. They have actually listened. We expected prices to go up after electric and water went in by about 15%. Following the consultation CRT (Water mooring) published the attached proposal. We want to fight the increases in fees as mauch as possible.

 

Has anyone had any experience of this sort of action from CRT and has anyone had any success as countering it. Can you suggest things we could do? Advice desperately needed. (PS I thick about 14 boats here are used as sole or primary residences)

[Alan de Enfield]

I would suggest that you have very reasonable prices in the past, and maybe even go so far as to suggest that they have been well below 'market rate'. I am currently paying £259 per metre in a 'northern' C&RT marina for LEISURE use.

The same Marina RESIDENTIAL rate is £324 per metre.

 

I think that you should look back and see how 'lucky' you have been to pay so little for so long.

£188 per metre in that area - unreasonable !!

 

(PS - if it is not currently 'residential' , then those "14 boats here are used as sole or primary residences" have had an even better deal.)

[Peter X]

You forgot to include your attachment, but it sounds to me as if Alan de Enfield is right. Your mooring seems very cheap for what you're getting in London, and will now just be cheap for what you're getting in London.

[Alan de Enfield]

Looking around other moorings in the 'London Area' it would appear that many are 'sold' on a per berth basis, rather than per metre, and typically :

 

Leisure Moorings are around the £9000 area (without a garden)

Residential Moorings are around the £10000+ area (without a garden)

Some Auctioned moorings have been in the £13000+ area.

 

If you have (say) a 20 metre (65ft) boat then at £300 per metre you will be paying £6000 per annum, if you have a 12 metre (40ft) boat then you will be paying £3600 per annum.

 

I realise that it is a 'big-jump' in prices but I would caution against making too many 'waves' (or 'rocking the boat') as I am sure that if C&RT were not to renew your contracts then they would have no difficulty in replacing you.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[peterboat]

Exactly as the above are saying its a cheap deal which could easily treble with some boat rocking

[GUMPY]

At least you are getting an improvement in facilities.

One mooring on GU south had a 20% increase with no extra facilities.

[MtB]

I thought that with ordinary CRT on line leisure moorings the price 'reverted' after three years to whatever CRT's 'book price' is for equivalent moorings in the area. Was this not happening on this site?

[GUMPY]

wasn't a crt site

[koukouvagia]

Twenty years ago we had one of our boats moored in Battlebridge Basin. BW (as it was then) quadrupled the mooring fees at a stroke. This was a bit of a shock but there was absolutely nothing we could do about it since BW was simply bringing the fees into line with other London moorings. "Take it or leave it" was their attitude. We reluctantly concluded we could no longer afford a central London mooring so we moved the boat to somewhere we could afford.

[MtB]

wasn't a crt site

 

 

There are several references in the OP suggesting it is.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

There are several references in the OP suggesting it is.

 

It is, it wasn't.

[GUMPY]

 

 

There are several references in the OP suggesting it is.

The one I mentioned isn't, thought you were referring to that

[MtB]

 

It is, it wasn't.

 

 

Given this bit, my comment stands surely?

 

"This site was inherited by BW about twenty years ago"

 

Why did BW then CRT not change the rent to match comparible moorings in the area after three years, as is their normal practise?

[BWM]

Stonebridge South Permanent Leisure Moorings (SSM) are offside moorings on the River Lee between Tottenham lock and Stonebridge lock, there are 43 boats at present. SSM is gated at either end with vehicle access from the South only. There is a dirt track, unofficial but long established gardens and onsite parking. There is no water or electric. Mooring fees this year are £188 per meter per annum. This site was inherited by BW about twenty years ago and some users have been here since before that time.

 

CRT (Waterside Moorings) want to put in electric and water and improve the access road, add some finger moorings and hike the price from £188 to £300 per meter per annum. Works will start in April and finish in July. Price hike starts in April. Oh and at the end of it all - go residential.

 

We have been in consultation for over a year and made some progress and enjoyed some concessions. They have actually listened. We expected prices to go up after electric and water went in by about 15%. Following the consultation CRT (Water mooring) published the attached proposal. We want to fight the increases in fees as mauch as possible.

 

Has anyone had any experience of this sort of action from CRT and has anyone had any success as countering it. Can you suggest things we could do? Advice desperately needed. (PS I thick about 14 boats here are used as sole or primary residences.

 

Was this plan spontaneous, or created in response to certain issues at the mooring site?

[Arthur Brown]

For a residential mooring in the London area to fall in your lap so easily and cheaply, you complain? There will be a queue of people willing to move to a full residential mooring any time you want to leave/get pushed. Ultimately local councils will push mooring operators to collect as much council tax as possible because the council ends up picking up the cost of people's care of the elderly as life becomes more demanding then their abilities can support, with council income being slashed by central government they have to ensure that they collect all the possible council tax.

[MtB]

 

Has anyone had any experience of this sort of action from CRT and has anyone had any success as countering it. Can you suggest things we could do? Advice desperately needed. (PS I thick about 14 boats here are used as sole or primary residences)

 

 

I'd have imagined CRT had a duty to maximise their income, not subside London residential moorers.

[Alan de Enfield]

Can you suggest things we could do?

 

 

It appears to be the consensus is that the best thing you can do is to 'count your blessings' - maybe not what you wanted to hear, but that's the reality.

[Arthur Brown]

Among the "things you could do" are

1/ Buy a house, -pay the full price of living in London, My house has increased in value about 5x over the period of my mortgage.

2/ Move out of London and pay the full cash and time cost of commuting.

3/ Make a serious investment to provide enough cash in your "golden years" to facilitate your care without relying on a local council, -currently over £1000 per week for residential care.

 

You could of course tell CaRT to ...... off and find another mooring for more money and with the permanent risk of being as you see it, done for council tax. and proper fees.

[BWM]

I believe one of the perks of a residential mooring is that you can sell your boat at a premium. May help some that may not be able to afford to stay long term?

[Athy]

I believe one of the perks of a residential mooring is that you can sell your boat at a premium. May help some that may not be able to afford to stay long term?

I believe that it sometimes is: I don't think that, for example, CART moorings are transferable, though others will be able to clarify this better than I can.

[Lady M]

As others have said, residential moorers at Stonebridge do seem to have had a pretty good deal until now. On the other hand, such a massive one-off price increase may not be the best way to change the situation. It also seems rather silly for CRT to start charging so much more on the basis of improved facilities before the work has even started let alone been properly completed. If existing boatowners decide to move away now due to the price rise, how many of those seeking a residential berth will wish to move in during the construction works? CRT may be left with empty berths and loss of existing income. This may be a reasonable negotiating point. You might also try asking for the price increase for existing moorers to be phased in over a few years.

 

As regards the leisure users, perhaps the time for them to protest was at the planning stage. Presumably CRT needed planning permission to change these leisure moorings to residential? I'm somewhat surprised that they managed to get it past the Lea Valley Park Authority. It may be perfectly reasonable to ask CRT to offer at least some alternative leisure moorings, and perhaps again look at a phased approach. For example, a two tier pricing structure with a gradual transfer of berths from leisure to residential. One simple way of identifying a leisure berth might be to deny access to electricity.

 

In both cases, everyone will lose out if a significant number of the boatowners choose to move off the moorings immediately.

[David Mack]

It also seems rather silly for CRT to start charging so much more on the basis of improved facilities before the work has even started let alone been properly completed. If existing boatowners decide to move away now due to the price rise, how many of those seeking a residential berth will wish to move in during the construction works? CRT may be left with empty berths and loss of existing income.

 

I suspect that is exactly what CRT want. They have realised that they have been undercharging for these moorings for years, compared with what they could get. So they announce the fee increase in the hope that the existing boaters will move elsewhere. They then have a clean sheet to do the upgrading works without having to work around awkward residents, and then they can offer new residential moorings with facilities to new moorers, who are prepared to pay far more than the existing crowd.

[MtB]

I was reading it slightly differently.

 

CRT have decided to review the rents and raise them to a (still very cheap for the area) level, and in order to 'sweeten the pill' they've very decently offered to install electricity and water to each mooring.

 

|I'd be keeping my head down and thanking my lucky stars for an east London residential mooring for only £300 a month!

[Lady M]

Yes but that suggests quite a short boat for living on - 12 metres I think? As 2/3 of the current moorers are not described as residential, perhaps £300 per metre per annum is not such a good deal for a leisure mooring, even in that area.

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes but that suggests quite a short boat for living on - 12 metres I think? As 2/3 of the current moorers are not described as residential, perhaps £300 per metre per annum is not such a good deal for a leisure mooring, even in that area.

 

On the contrary - I would suggest that at 12 x £300 per annum (£3600 pa) that is probably around half of the going rate for a leisure mooring in that area.

As I mentioned above - we are paying almost that for a mooring in the Northern 'wilds'.