Whisper Power

[jddevel]

Any one any experience of this companies battery chargers or equipment in general please?

[Keith M]

I am a listed dealer how can I help

 

Keith

[jddevel]

My problem is getting independent advice and experiences with their products before I decide on whether to include their items in my inventory.

[hounddog]

I am a listed dealer how can I help

 

Keith

Are they anything to do with Mastervolt Keith - apart from having the same green? Their Piccolo looks like a very nice unit.

[nicknorman]

Are they anything to do with Mastervolt Keith - apart from having the same green? Their Piccolo looks like a very nice unit.

From WP website: "WhisperPower was founded in 2007 for the manufacture and worldwide sale of diesel generators and related items, which had been sold until this point under the brand name Mastervolt. "

 

So: Yes.

 

Also interesting, didn't know they been bought out. From MV website: "Mastervolt is part of Power Products, LLC, which includes various major brands within its Marine, Mobile & Industrial division. Ancor, BEP, Blue Sea Systems, Marinco, Mastervolt and ProMariner provided innovative electrical solutions as independent companies for decades. Now these leading companies have come together to offer the broadest and most complete electrical product range for every conceivable application."

Edited December 21, 2016 by nicknorman

[Athy]

 

Also interesting, didn't know they been bought out.

There was a rumour going round that they were now made in the Far East, but it may have been just Chinese whispers.

[Keith M]

Are they anything to do with Mastervolt Keith - apart from having the same green? Their Piccolo looks like a very nice unit.

 

Whisper Power did have a working relationship with Mastervolt BV

 

But Whisper Power was formed out of the old Mastervolt generator section

 

So the answer to the question is no

 

Fischer Panda will also be launching a new small generator at the London Boat Show 2017.

 

Keith

[Stilllearning]

To widen this thread a little, this lack of acknowledgement of change of ownership has annoyed me for years. I feel that it should be a legal requirement that the actual owners of a brand should have to indicate very clearly who owns what. Thus for example Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini cars should have to make clear who makes them.

There are no doubt others who don't care, but I do.

Rant over.

Merry Solstice.

[Keith M]

Only in the last 12 months or so that Whisper Power have started producing their own power products

 

Prior to that date most if not all power products were badged up items

 

Seasons Greetings

 

Keith

My problem is getting independent advice and experiences with their products before I decide on whether to include their items in my inventory.

 

Which items are you looking at

 

Happy to help

 

Seasons Greetings

 

Keith

[hounddog]

From WP website: "WhisperPower was founded in 2007 for the manufacture and worldwide sale of diesel generators and related items, which had been sold until this point under the brand name Mastervolt. "

 

So: Yes.

 

Also interesting, didn't know they been bought out. From MV website: "Mastervolt is part of Power Products, LLC, which includes various major brands within its Marine, Mobile & Industrial division. Ancor, BEP, Blue Sea Systems, Marinco, Mastervolt and ProMariner provided innovative electrical solutions as independent companies for decades. Now these leading companies have come together to offer the broadest and most complete electrical product range for every conceivable application."

they have also started selling some crap, search on eBay for air horn and it returns something badges Mastervolt that looks identical to some other chinese cheapies

 

Whisper Power did have a working relationship with Mastervolt BV

 

But Whisper Power was formed out of the old Mastervolt generator section

 

So the answer to the question is no

 

Fischer Panda will also be launching a new small generator at the London Boat Show 2017.

 

Keith

You're an independent dealer, no? and I've had good advice from you in the past.

 

The piccolo looks like a good piece of kit for the price; what are you thoughts on it?

[jddevel]

Keith,

I`m looking to purchase an inverter (3000 watts for washing machine etc.) and a separate charger for domestic (5 x 110amp) starter, bow thruster and possible solar later.

[AndyV]

To widen this thread a little, this lack of acknowledgement of change of ownership has annoyed me for years. I feel that it should be a legal requirement that the actual owners of a brand should have to indicate very clearly who owns what. Thus for example Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini cars should have to make clear who makes them.

There are no doubt others who don't care, but I do.

Rant over.

Merry Solstice.

That would be a very difficult ball of string to unravel. It's common (very very common) for manufacturers to sell to each other. Every type of business I have worked in, and these have been quite diverse, considers it normal practice. Domestic appliance brands are often collections of rebranded items sourced from many factories. Bosch make (or made when I worked in the Kitchen industry) washing machines for many brands. All the manufactures and brands swap,with each other. We have a Toyota car that is identical and made in the same factory as a Citroen and a Peugeot. In my current industry (flooring) "toll manufacturing" is common and the best toll manufacturers usually are very secretive about who they manufacture for. The list of such examples would be endless.

 

I think it is important to judge any purchase based on the item itself, not where it is made. Brands thrive or fail on reputation so high quality products must be high quality, wherever they are made. The real risk is with brands that trade on historical reputation to sell in volume at reduced price and allow quality to fall to compensated.

 

All in all, caveat emptor

[Keith M]

Keith,

I`m looking to purchase an inverter (3000 watts for washing machine etc.) and a separate charger for domestic (5 x 110amp) starter, bow thruster and possible solar later.

 

Hello

 

Is this a 12-volt installation?

 

Personally for a 3000 watt inverter I would suggest a 24-volt system

 

If the full output from the inverter is required you will be using around 250 amps

 

And your battery system will provide up to 275 amps if you are using the 50% discharge rule

 

Have you consider having an inverter / charger instead of separates

 

Season's Greeting

[WotEver]

Keith,

I`m looking to purchase an inverter (3000 watts for washing machine etc.) and a separate charger for domestic (5 x 110amp) starter, bow thruster and possible solar later.

Will you be continuously cruising?

[jddevel]

Already 12volt-following advice!!!! Plus if the combi goes I`ve lost all. Separate reduces the risk. This is not a live aboard but 2/3 weeks at a time so maximum load is say washing machine on its own and even then probably when motoring. Similarly microwave etc. 3000 therefore will provide plenty of "just in case". If I`m buying might as well try and anticipate.

[by'eck]

Already 12volt-following advice!!!! Plus if the combi goes I`ve lost all. Separate reduces the risk. This is not a live aboard but 2/3 weeks at a time so maximum load is say washing machine on its own and even then probably when motoring. Similarly microwave etc. 3000 therefore will provide plenty of "just in case". If I`m buying might as well try and anticipate.

Nothing wrong with 12 volt 3000 watt inverter/Combi installation as long as it's engineered properly with short battery cable runs of correct gauge.

 

Regarding Whisper generators, my experience with 6kVA 3000rpm Lombardini engined version was that basic engine and alternator were fine, but the rest of the installation particularly the wiring and electronics were rubbish. Not surprised that Mastervolt divorced themselves from any connection with product. Must have represented a huge embarrassment for them.

[nicknorman]

Already 12volt-following advice!!!! Plus if the combi goes I`ve lost all. Separate reduces the risk. This is not a live aboard but 2/3 weeks at a time so maximum load is say washing machine on its own and even then probably when motoring. Similarly microwave etc. 3000 therefore will provide plenty of "just in case". If I`m buying might as well try and anticipate.

Just picking up on a couple of issues you raise:

 

If the Combi goes you haven't lost all, you have just lost the ability to create mains power and charge the batteries from shore power or a genny. You still have an engine alternator to charge the dc system.

 

If you are primarily on shore power, you would lose the ability to charge the batteries but the loss of the inverter wouldn't be an issue. Ie be in the same position as if you had seperates and the battery charger failed.

 

If you are primarily off grid the inability to charge the batteries would be insignificant and you would lose the ability to make ac mains, ie be in the same position as if you had seperates and the inverter failed.

 

As far as I know Combis are not significantly less reliable than seperates - or at least the quality of the brand is a far more significant factor.

 

Thus I don't really "buy" that Combis are disadvantageous from a reliability point of view and they are certainly very convenient in their ability to seamlessly switch between shore power and battery power, or do the half way house thing whereby they use battery power to boost a limited shore power source.

 

For the washing machine I'd be reluctant to use battery power to run the washer during the wash cycle when the heater is on, however if you have a modern engine with a decent alternator this can go much of the way to supplying the necessary power providing it is spinning fast enough. Once the wash cycle is over (after first drain) and it starts to rinse, the power consumption is quite low and the batteries will easily be able to support that. You can also reduce the energy demand by engineering a hot fill. Simplistically by pouring hot water in through the soap tray whilst it is filling, or more sophisticatedly by having a thermostatic mixer plumbed in so you can fill with hot (but not too hot) water and then select cold for the rinses.

[Paul C]

Just picking up on a couple of issues you raise:

 

If the Combi goes you haven't lost all, you have just lost the ability to create mains power and charge the batteries from shore power or a genny. You still have an engine alternator to charge the dc system.

 

If you are primarily on shore power, you would lose the ability to charge the batteries but the loss of the inverter wouldn't be an issue. Ie be in the same position as if you had seperates and the battery charger failed.

 

If you are primarily off grid the inability to charge the batteries would be insignificant and you would lose the ability to make ac mains, ie be in the same position as if you had seperates and the inverter failed.

 

As far as I know Combis are not significantly less reliable than seperates - or at least the quality of the brand is a far more significant factor.

 

Thus I don't really "buy" that Combis are disadvantageous from a reliability point of view and they are certainly very convenient in their ability to seamlessly switch between shore power and battery power, or do the half way house thing whereby they use battery power to boost a limited shore power source.

 

For the washing machine I'd be reluctant to use battery power to run the washer during the wash cycle when the heater is on, however if you have a modern engine with a decent alternator this can go much of the way to supplying the necessary power providing it is spinning fast enough. Once the wash cycle is over (after first drain) and it starts to rinse, the power consumption is quite low and the batteries will easily be able to support that. You can also reduce the energy demand by engineering a hot fill. Simplistically by pouring hot water in through the soap tray whilst it is filling, or more sophisticatedly by having a thermostatic mixer plumbed in so you can fill with hot (but not too hot) water and then select cold for the rinses.

 

Most combis are wired with the shoreline coming into them, and the boat's mains coming out as a single connection - ie in addition to the battery charger and inverter, they also function as a changeover switch. If a combi "broke down" and needed to be removed and sent away for repair, you'd need to do additional wiring and need additional parts, to temporarily connect it up to allow mains to the devices on the boat. Also some include the RCD/MCBs etc.

[nicknorman]

Most combis are wired with the shoreline coming into them, and the boat's mains coming out as a single connection - ie in addition to the battery charger and inverter, they also function as a changeover switch. If a combi "broke down" and needed to be removed and sent away for repair, you'd need to do additional wiring and need additional parts, to temporarily connect it up to allow mains to the devices on the boat. Also some include the RCD/MCBs etc.

Yes you'd need to join the wires from the incoming to the outgoing mains but that is just a question of one of those round junction boxes you can get in B&Q or even, in extremis, a strip of choc block connector and some insulating tape. I am not aware of any Combis with RCDs or MCBs built in. Maybe they do exist but if so they are pretty rare. The seperate inverter needs a changeover mechanism between shore and inverter - what happens if that goes wrong? But of course if you are not a frequent user of shore power, none of that is relevant.

 

I suppose there are two categories of people, those with Combis who can't envisage having seperates, and those with seperates who can't envisage having a Combi!

[Paul C]

There's always a "what if" a component goes wrong scenario, I am not saying one or other solution is the better one, or more reliable. In my particular boat, we had 2x inverters, a big one (1500W) and a little one (150W), the reason being, the big inverter had a 2A quiescent current draw so was only used for big devices. Each had a conventonal BS1363 socket, so the connection was done with a short lead with a BS1363 plug on it. So, if the shoreline changeover switch failed, it could be bypassed and an electrical device or extension lead plugged directly into the inverter. It was also possible to use both inverters at once, although only one could "feed" the sockets on the boat - the other would only present its own socket. Of course, with only one RCD/consumer unit, this meant that taking a direct connection didn't have RCD protection, so it wasn't ideal and in fact never needed to be done (so its a theoretical risk).

 

I'd imagine a combi also handles the relevant earthing, for example it would use the earth of the shoreline on shoreline; and join N-E when using the inverter.

 

So that's 4 tasks its doing, which would need to be done with wiring/changeover switch/charger/inverter as separate items or fitments. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage. I can think of situations where having everything neat and tidy in one "box" is an advantage, and situations where its failure meant that there was a lot of inconvenience during its repair/replacement. I'm not sure there's any cost or reliability advantage or disadvantage either way.

[Keith M]

Most people buy Combis because of the cost

 

Using Mastervolt RRP

 

12 / 3000 / 150 £ 2000

 

Inverter 12 / 2000 this is the most output as a stand alone inverter £ 1152. 00

 

Battery Charger 12 / 100 £ 971. 00 again the combi has a better battery charger

 

AC change over system £ 179.00

 

The above system will take significantly longer to install also requiring more installation items

 

For a stand alone 12 / 3000 inverter you need to change over to 24-volts

 

Season's Greetings

 

Keith

[jddevel]

So what`s this? I must confess my knowledge of DC voltage is very very limited and I`m obviously having to be guided by the more qualified and experienced especially in the world of narrowboats.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Phoenix-Inverter-3000VA-120V-EN.pdf

It appeared to me to have both a 12 and 24volt offering.

[Paul C]

So what`s this? I must confess my knowledge of DC voltage is very very limited and I`m obviously having to be guided by the more qualified and experienced especially in the world of narrowboats.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Phoenix-Inverter-3000VA-120V-EN.pdf

It appeared to me to have both a 12 and 24volt offering.

 

They do (Mastervolt, seemingly, don't). Beware the linked spec is for an American model, which supplies AC power at 120V/60Hz. They do do a 230V 50Hz one though.

[hounddog]

Most people buy Combis because of the cost

 

Using Mastervolt RRP

 

12 / 3000 / 150 £ 2000

 

Inverter 12 / 2000 this is the most output as a stand alone inverter £ 1152. 00

 

Battery Charger 12 / 100 £ 971. 00 again the combi has a better battery charger

 

AC change over system £ 179.00

 

The above system will take significantly longer to install also requiring more installation items

 

For a stand alone 12 / 3000 inverter you need to change over to 24-volts

 

Season's Greetings

 

Keith

Hi Keith

 

I was hoping for your thoughts on the Whisper Power Piccolo...

 

or is 'wait for the Fischer Panda ' your only comment?

[Keith M]

 

They do (Mastervolt, seemingly, don't). Beware the linked spec is for an American model, which supplies AC power at 120V/60Hz. They do do a 230V 50Hz one though.

 

Yes Victron do have a 12-volt 3000 watt inverter in there portfolio, 3000 watts is peak power continuously rate is around 2200 watts just a little bit more than Mastervolts 2000 watts. so what is on the tin is not always entirely correct always carefully read the specifications.

 

But I believe that both Mastervolt and Victron can not match the output of the inverter / charge against the separates

 

Season's Greetings

 

Keith

Hi Keith

 

I was hoping for your thoughts on the Whisper Power Piccolo...

 

or is 'wait for the Fischer Panda ' your only comment?

 

I have sent you a PM

 

I can easily re-send it

 

season's Greetings

 

Keith